2004 Chorus or 2005 Ultegra (Longish)

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Douglas Estok, Jan 26, 2004.

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  1. Greetings, all. My very first post here, so please, be gentle. Or at least buy me a drink...

    Well, it might be my second...not sure if the first post was accepted by the server or not.

    So, I picked up a new road frame shortly before the holidays...a year-end closeout I just couldn't
    turn down.

    Getting back to the road after a 15-year layoff, which has been spent on the MTB scene. 6' 1", 193#,
    38. Not interested in crits, TTs, or racing in general. Between my wife and me, we have 3
    businesses, and 2 young kids, so time is limited.

    Looking for a reliable ride I can hop on and spin for an hour or two...the occasional century or half-
    C...get me away from the computer, get the blood flowing. Will still ride my MTBs (Ti hardtail and
    steel rigid SS), but supplement with road riding for variety and fitness.

    On my MTBs, I primarily run XT, with a smattering of SRAM, XTR and Avid. I'm pretty big and strong,
    and can break parts.

    Was originally set on '03 Chorus, but that's disappearing quickly. '04 Chorus seems a lot like '03
    Record. Not intereseted in Dura-Ace...while I appreciate the technology and engineering that's gone
    into it, that '04 DA crank is butt-ugly to my eye. Certainly can't justify Record.

    I know, logically, Ultegra will be everything I'd ever need, but conventional wisdom is that the '05
    will get the DA treatment, on the crank, 10-spd, etc. It doesn't help that everyone and their dog
    uses Ultegra, and I admittedly like different stuff than the crowd...I'm just weird like that.

    I'd be willing to wait on the '05 Ultegra if it's worth it. Heck, I've waited this long...or get '04
    Chorus now. Maybe put the '05 Ultegra crank/bb on it when it comes out...

    Anyone seen any spy photos or technical details about '05 Ultegra? I've heard the crank will be
    similar in design to DA, but toned down, looks-wise (thank God).

    Thanks in advance.

    Doug
     
    Tags:


  2. Dvt

    Dvt Guest

    Douglas Estok wrote:
    > ...everyone and their dog uses Ultegra, and I admittedly like different stuff than the crowd...I'm
    > just weird like that.

    Shimano's 105 group looks a lot different...

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu
     
  3. Allan Leedy

    Allan Leedy Guest

    I put Chorus 10-spd on a bike I bought in 2000. I couldn't be more pleased. I like the clean look of
    the hidden cables from the Ergo shifters. I like the shape and contour of the hoods. I like the
    effectiveness of the brakes. And I like the fact that you can shift multiple cogs in one throw on
    the back (both up and down) and can easily trim the front. It's certainly less common than Ultegra,
    but common enough to be well supported in Portland where I live.

    On the other hand, I think the new DA 10-speed is very good looking. Much of this is totally
    subjective. Good luck with your choice, whatever it is. "Douglas Estok" <[email protected]> wrote
    in message news:[email protected]...
    > Greetings, all. My very first post here, so please, be gentle. Or at least buy me a drink...
    >
    > Well, it might be my second...not sure if the first post was accepted by the server or not.
    >
    > So, I picked up a new road frame shortly before the holidays...a year-end closeout I just couldn't
    > turn down.
    >
    > Getting back to the road after a 15-year layoff, which has been spent on the MTB scene. 6' 1",
    > 193#, 38. Not interested in crits, TTs, or racing in general. Between my wife and me, we have 3
    > businesses, and 2 young kids, so time is limited.
    >
    > Looking for a reliable ride I can hop on and spin for an hour or two...the occasional century or
    > half-C...get me away from the computer, get the blood flowing. Will still ride my MTBs (Ti
    > hardtail and steel rigid SS), but supplement with road riding for variety and fitness.
    >
    > On my MTBs, I primarily run XT, with a smattering of SRAM, XTR and Avid. I'm pretty big and
    > strong, and can break parts.
    >
    > Was originally set on '03 Chorus, but that's disappearing quickly. '04 Chorus seems a lot like '03
    > Record. Not intereseted in Dura-Ace...while I appreciate the technology and engineering that's
    > gone into it, that '04 DA crank is butt-ugly to my eye. Certainly can't justify Record.
    >
    > I know, logically, Ultegra will be everything I'd ever need, but conventional wisdom is that the
    > '05 will get the DA treatment, on the crank, 10-spd, etc. It doesn't help that everyone and their
    > dog uses Ultegra, and I admittedly like different stuff than the crowd...I'm just weird like that.
    >
    > I'd be willing to wait on the '05 Ultegra if it's worth it. Heck, I've waited this long...or get
    > '04 Chorus now. Maybe put the '05 Ultegra crank/bb on it when it comes out...
    >
    > Anyone seen any spy photos or technical details about '05 Ultegra? I've heard the crank will be
    > similar in design to DA, but toned down, looks-wise (thank God).
    >
    > Thanks in advance.
    >
    > Doug
     
  4. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Douglas Estok wrote: -snip-
    > Was originally set on '03 Chorus, but that's disappearing quickly. '04 Chorus seems a lot like '03
    > Record. Not intereseted in Dura-Ace...while I appreciate the technology and engineering that's
    > gone into it, that '04 DA crank is butt-ugly to my eye. Certainly can't justify Record.
    -snip-
    > I'd be willing to wait on the '05 Ultegra if it's worth it. Heck, I've waited this long...or get
    > '04 Chorus now. Maybe put the '05 Ultegra crank/bb on it when it comes out...
    >
    > Anyone seen any spy photos or technical details about '05 Ultegra? I've heard the crank will be
    > similar in design to DA, but toned down, looks-wise (thank God).
    -snip- No idea. Considered 2004 Centaur? Ultegra-level equipment at a better price, even after the
    exchange. Fully compatible with Chorus if you want to mix-n-match with, say, a Chorus RD or
    something.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  5. dje-<< I'd be willing to wait on the '05 Ultegra if it's worth it. Heck, I've waited this long...or
    get '04 Chorus now. Maybe put the '05 Ultegra crank/bb on it when it comes out... >><BR><BR>

    With the looks of the DA crank being a problem, then the look of the 2005 ultegra crank
    will be too..

    I would say never worry about toasted levers or obsolete BBs and go for 2004 Chorus or Centaur now
    and forget about all the running changes or other whimsey that shimano will foist on you as the
    cyclists test their new stuff.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. On 27 Jan 2004 14:17:58 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    >dje-<< I'd be willing to wait on the '05 Ultegra if it's worth it. Heck, I've waited this long...or
    >get '04 Chorus now. Maybe put the '05 Ultegra crank/bb on it when it comes out... >><BR><BR>
    >
    >With the looks of the DA crank being a problem, then the look of the 2005 ultegra crank
    >will be too..
    >
    >I would say never worry about toasted levers or obsolete BBs and go for 2004 Chorus or Centaur now
    >and forget about all the running changes or other whimsey that shimano will foist on you as the
    >cyclists test their new stuff.
    >
    >Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    >(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

    You're one of several folks who've suggested Centaur. A guy from one of the forums offered me an
    unused mini grouppo of '03 Centaur, never installed, fairly cheap. Has Chorus tech trickeld down to
    Centaur as well?

    Someone told me it was a significant reduction in quality from Chorus to Centaur, at least in the
    past. Bushings vs. bearings...Mexico vs. Italy. Care to expound on this, please? TIA
     
  7. I run Record 10 on my road bike and have Centaur 10 on an all-rounder/rain bike. The Centaur from my
    point on view seems to work just as well as the Record--not as pretty or quite as light tho.

    Centuar is the best bang for the buck out there in a gruppo IMO.

    Mark

    Douglas Estok wrote:
    > On 27 Jan 2004 14:17:58 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:
    >
    >
    >>dje-<< I'd be willing to wait on the '05 Ultegra if it's worth it. Heck, I've waited this
    >>long...or get '04 Chorus now. Maybe put the '05 Ultegra crank/bb on it when it comes out...
    >>>><BR><BR>
    >>
    >>With the looks of the DA crank being a problem, then the look of the 2005 ultegra crank will
    >>be too..
    >>
    >>I would say never worry about toasted levers or obsolete BBs and go for 2004 Chorus or Centaur now
    >>and forget about all the running changes or other whimsey that shimano will foist on you as the
    >>cyclists test their new stuff.
    >>
    >>Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    >>(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
    >
    >
    > You're one of several folks who've suggested Centaur. A guy from one of the forums offered me an
    > unused mini grouppo of '03 Centaur, never installed, fairly cheap. Has Chorus tech trickeld down
    > to Centaur as well?
    >
    > Someone told me it was a significant reduction in quality from Chorus to Centaur, at least in the
    > past. Bushings vs. bearings...Mexico vs. Italy. Care to expound on this, please? TIA
     
  8. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Mark A. Clark wrote:

    > I run Record 10 on my road bike and have Centaur 10 on an all-rounder/rain bike. The Centaur from
    > my point on view seems to work just as well as the Record--not as pretty or quite as light tho.
    >
    > Centuar is the best bang for the buck out there in a gruppo IMO.

    I agree. I have Ultegra and it's fine. I got an Ultegra bike at a really good price. But if I were
    building from scratch and/or paying full retail for my gear, I'd go with Centaur, for all the
    reasons mentioned and more. Even Veloce works fine and looks great. But Centaur looks a even nicer,
    has more easily serviceable hubs, and is lighter. Chorus is lighter and shinier still, but getting
    into the gilding the lily category, IMO.

    However, Campy doesn't offer anything but mainstream standard road gearing. So if you prefer
    something else, Shimano is a better bet -- you can mix road and MTB parts, etc.

    Matt O.
     
  9. John Retchford

    John Retchford New Member

    Joined:
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    Have a look at Campagnolo's spare parts catalogue at:
    http://www.campagnolo.com/techinfo.php?did=c
    Look, for example, at hubs. Parts with "RE" in front of the number are Record. Notice that most of the wear parts are the same in Record, Chorus and Centaur except where titanium alloy or carbon/epoxy composite is used in the more expensive ones to save a little weight.

    You soon get the impression that functionally and as far as wear is concerned, Centaur will be just as good as Chorus and Record, but a little heavier, a little less shiny and a lot cheaper.

    John Retchford
     
  10. On 28 Jan 2004 14:17:46 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    <Snip>

    ><< Someone told me it was a significant reduction in quality from Chorus to Centaur, at least in
    >the past. Bushings vs. bearings. >><BR><BR>
    >
    >Not so, the hubs bearings, innards as well as the lever innards, are EC-RE parts, Record parts. The
    >rings are Chorus rings, The rear der is almost identical, same pulleys, for instance.

    Actually, the bearings vs. bushings issue that someone mentioned was in reference to the levers,
    though I can't recall if it was the braking or shifting mechanism(s). Both? He claimed the Chorus
    used bearings, while Centaur was bushings. That was also '03 vintage, FWIW.
     
  11. Smmb

    Smmb Guest

    "Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> a √©crit dans le message de :
    news:[email protected]...
    > dje-<< Has Chorus tech trickeld down to Centaur as well? >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Not as much as '03 Record has to '04 Chorus. Centaur remains the best value, IMO, as it is Record
    > performance with just
    a
    > wee bit more weight.
    >
    > << Someone told me it was a significant reduction in quality from Chorus to Centaur, at least in
    > the past. Bushings vs. bearings. >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Not so, the hubs bearings, innards as well as the lever innards, are EC-RE parts, Record parts.
    > The rings are Chorus rings, The rear der is almost identical, same pulleys, for instance.
    >
    I generally agree. I have a 1998 Chorus group on one bike, and a 2003 Centaur on the other.
    Virtually no difference, EXCEPT that the Chorus shifting levers ride on bearings, and the Centaur
    remain on bushings. And, you can feel it. I happened on a sale-priced Veloce front derailleur (2003)
    and it is identical to the '98 Chorus.

    It goes without saying, that they all work just fine...
    --

    Bonne route,

    Sandy Paris FR
     
  12. My understanding is that Centaur is bushings while Record/Chorus is ball bearings. There is a slight
    difference in feel between my Centaur and Record levers, but no discernible difference in shifting
    performance.

    Markq

    Douglas Estok wrote:
    > On 28 Jan 2004 14:17:46 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:
    >
    > <Snip>
    >
    >><< Someone told me it was a significant reduction in quality from Chorus to Centaur, at least in
    >>the past. Bushings vs. bearings. >><BR><BR>
    >>
    >>Not so, the hubs bearings, innards as well as the lever innards, are EC-RE parts, Record parts.
    >>The rings are Chorus rings, The rear der is almost identical, same pulleys, for instance.
    >
    >
    > Actually, the bearings vs. bushings issue that someone mentioned was in reference to the levers,
    > though I can't recall if it was the braking or shifting mechanism(s). Both? He claimed the Chorus
    > used bearings, while Centaur was bushings. That was also '03 vintage, FWIW.
     
  13. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 28 Jan 2004 14:17:46 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    >Not as much as '03 Record has to '04 Chorus. Centaur remains the best value, IMO, as it is Record
    >performance with just a wee bit more weight.

    I believe that '04 Chorus no longer had the "ball bearing" wherever that was and it is like Centaur
    with CF levers.

    I like black levers and my Record 10 and Mirage w 10 sp shift disk work the same. I actually prefer
    the feel of the Mirage plastic over the shiny, smooth finish on Record.
     
  14. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Mark A. Clark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My understanding is that Centaur is bushings while Record/Chorus is ball bearings. There is a
    > slight difference in feel between my Centaur and Record levers, but no discernible difference in
    > shifting performance.

    I think you have to try really, really hard to discern a difference and, if you do, there's a good
    chance you're hallucinating.

    >
    > Markq
    >
    > Douglas Estok wrote:
    > > On 28 Jan 2004 14:17:46 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:
    > >
    > > <Snip>
    > >
    > >><< Someone told me it was a significant reduction in quality from Chorus to Centaur, at least in
    > >>the past. Bushings vs. bearings. >><BR><BR>
    > >>
    > >>Not so, the hubs bearings, innards as well as the lever innards, are
    EC-RE
    > >>parts, Record parts. The rings are Chorus rings, The rear der is almost identical, same pulleys,
    > >>for instance.
    > >
    > >
    > > Actually, the bearings vs. bushings issue that someone mentioned was in reference to the levers,
    > > though I can't recall if it was the braking or shifting mechanism(s). Both? He claimed the
    > > Chorus used bearings, while Centaur was bushings. That was also '03 vintage, FWIW.
    >

    Robin Hubert
     
  15. Robin Hubert <[email protected]> wrote:
    : I think you have to try really, really hard to discern a difference and, if you do, there's a good
    : chance you're hallucinating.

    well, i can think of worse mistakes to make when hallucinating.

    <groan>
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  16. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > On 28 Jan 2004 14:17:46 GMT, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    > Campagnolo) wrote:
    >>Not as much as '03 Record has to '04 Chorus. Centaur remains the best value, IMO, as it is Record
    >>performance with just a wee bit more weight.

    Paul Kopit wrote:
    > I believe that '04 Chorus no longer had the "ball bearing" wherever that was and it is like
    > Centaur with CF levers.
    >
    > I like black levers and my Record 10 and Mirage w 10 sp shift disk work the same. I actually
    > prefer the feel of the Mirage plastic over the shiny, smooth finish on Record.

    Paul, you're not alone. We've built Centaur and Chorus bikes with that lever to customer request and
    we've been building Mirage Ten Ergos for three years.

    The "wherever" is the pivot of the shift assembly inside the lever housing. Other Campagnolo levers
    use a bronze journal, similar to almost every other shifter I've ever seen, and equally responsive
    to a dash of lubricant.

    The bronze sleeve is 8mm ID, 10mm long. In the Record model, twin cartridge bearings are 9mm bore
    and back-to-back provide 12mm of support.

    The 2004 catalog and website don't say either way for Chorus, I have not seen the small parts book
    for 2004 yet and Campagnolo's CD is late as well. I've sold through again and will be out until
    Friday. Does anyone know for certain?

    Like so many things here I am my usual insensitive self. If there's a pea under that mattress I'll
    take your word for it because I just can't tell.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  17. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Robin Hubert <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : I think you have to try really, really hard to discern a difference and,
    if
    > : you do, there's a good chance you're hallucinating.
    >
    > well, i can think of worse mistakes to make when hallucinating.
    >
    > <groan>

    Constipated?

    Robin Hubert
     
  18. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote: [talking about cartridge bearings or bushings in Campy Ergo levers]
    >> I cannot 'feel' any difference between cart and bushing and I challenge anybody else to as well.

    dvt wrote:
    > Then why do they put the bearings in the more expensive levers? Durability? I can't imagine that
    > they're using it as a selling point. Most people don't have any idea if their levers have bushings
    > or bearings.

    Well, it's lost on me.

    I think the cartridge bearing is there just so the catalog can say "ball bearing".

    I am not a designer, but if you asked me to make a shifter I would pivot everything on a steel shaft
    running in a bronze or aluminum bushing. Or the inverse. Maybe Delrin for a Mirage model. Which is
    how nearly every other shifter works.

    A simple journal seems adequate. I mean it's not as if they spin at 90rpm for fifty thousand
    revolutions or anything . And the 'lesser' models have a really nice journal.
    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
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