2004 Chorus single pivot brake setup

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Gareth Beale, Aug 10, 2004.

  1. On 11 Aug 2004 09:05:38 -0700, [email protected] (Mark) wrote:
    >
    >If you were to manually try to rock these single pivot Units they will
    >move, versus dual pivots do not. (Provided they are installed
    >correctly.)


    The rocking doesn't matter.

    JT
     


  2. richard

    richard Guest

    Qui si parla Campagnolo wrote:

    > gfb-<< However, even tightened down, the calipers rock slightly from
    > side to side. >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Normal. When centered with a 15mm-they will stay centered.


    And when centered and adjusted properly, DO THEY ROCK!!!!
     
  3. Mark

    Mark Guest

    [email protected] (Qui si parla Campagnolo ) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > gfb-<< However, even tightened down, the calipers rock slightly from
    > side to side. >><BR><BR>
    >
    > Normal. When centered with a 15mm-they will stay centered.
    >
    > Peter Chisholm
    > Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    > 1833 Pearl St.
    > Boulder, CO, 80302
    > (303)440-3535
    > http://www.vecchios.com
    > "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"


    Hi Peter/All. After going back to mine, doing a visual on everything
    again, checking torque/tightness and then applying a bit a Tri- Flow
    Oil at the Caliper's pivot points, and actuating them a couple Dozen
    times, they do appear to be working a lot better, and appear to be
    centering better than they did originally. Probablt true of all
    brake/shifting components, they need a bit of time to "Break in".

    As you say Peter, the rocking is "Normal", and I guess you are 100%
    correct, as these D-Record Units will probably display/exhibit similar
    qualities to basically all Single pivot Calipers.

    Still, IMO, I feel it was a bit odd/unusual for Campy to go back to an
    older type of design to get desired results. Perhaps this was the
    most cost efficient way for them if they were seeking less braking
    force at the rear?

    What's in store for the future? Antilock Brakes?! lol Mark
     
  4. Kenny Lee

    Kenny Lee Guest

    Mark wrote:

    > Tuschinski <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >
    >>Hogwash. Something must be wrong (maybe the hole in the rearframe isn't
    >>true?). The Chorus non-dual pivot brakes are very very efficient and are
    >>easy to set up right. I add that the 2004 range of Campa brakes are the
    >>best I ever used. Stiff and responsive. And even after 3k (flat road,
    >>no hills!) miles I haven't needed to tighten the cable (!!!).

    >
    >
    > These are my findings: No, the hole in the frame is perfect, and
    > precise, and the frame I'm building is actually a work of art. In
    > essence, this frame is a Waterford. I guess this enough said here.
    >
    > I'll agree, there will not be a problem with brake actuation, it
    > appears crisp, and positive, and they do appear to correctly pull away
    > from the rim, but they can be made to rock/move, and could create a
    > slight rub condition.
    >
    > The very same thing can probably be said about any older style Campy,
    > or other Single Pivot Caliper. Clean actuation I think has more to do
    > with good cables, proper cable routing, and good lubrication, and
    > operation of the Caliper itself.
    >
    > What seems to be typical though of this Single Pivot Caliper , is the
    > "Rocking" that Gareth describes, and this is exactly what I notice
    > also.
    >
    > If you were to manually try to rock these single pivot Units they will
    > move, versus dual pivots do not. (Provided they are installed
    > correctly.)
    >
    > As I have found, the Front Record Dual Pivot Caliper is as solid as a
    > rock, and does not budge from side, to side and this permits very
    > precise centering at each pad/side without deviation. As do my Veloce
    > Dual Pivot F+R Calipers on the Bianchi I have.
    >
    > I'm sorry to all, if this appears to be a very minor quibble. While
    > this slight rocking should not pose a "Dragging" problem that will
    > hinder operation the bike, I guess it just a matter of personal
    > preference what one prefers.
    >
    > I was first initially unaware that this was how the New Campy
    > Record/Chorus D Calipers were designed. I know better now, and have
    > learned something.
    >
    > As for any hopeful future build-ups, I will be looking/buying the
    > non-D Calipers. Mark


    I think the cable housing is probably not the correct length. If it's
    too long from where it leaves the top tube and curves down along the
    seat stay to where it connects to the caliper, this bend in the cable
    will push the caliper off of center.

    Kenny Lee
     
  5. gfb-<< I spoke with the workshop at Excel sports where I bought them and they
    gave me a
    few suggestions to try, >><BR><BR>

    Tighten the nut WITH the 15mm on the flats, to prevent the caliper from rocking
    when ya tighten them. USE the washer supplied with the caliper.

    We install these all day long and have never had any problems. I use thewm on
    my Merckx and they work just fine.

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  6. Richard-<< And when centered and adjusted properly, DO THEY ROCK!!!! >><BR><BR>

    If I reach down and push on the caliper they do. What's your shouting about?

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. Mark-<< What's in store for the future? Antilock Brakes?! lol >><BR><BR>

    been done, called Deltas.

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  8. gfb-<< Not really. It's near impossible to tighten down and keep the arms
    centred. >><BR><BR>

    Put the 15mm onto the flats, hold centered and tighten the nut. Surprised that
    the 'work shop' at Excel didn't say this... It's HOW they are installed.

    Peter Chisholm
    Vecchio's Bicicletteria
    1833 Pearl St.
    Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535
    http://www.vecchios.com
    "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  9. Mark wrote in message <[email protected]>...
    >Still, IMO, I feel it was a bit odd/unusual for Campy to go back to an
    >older type of design to get desired results. Perhaps this was the
    >most cost efficient way for them if they were seeking less braking
    >force at the rear?
    >
    >What's in store for the future? Antilock Brakes?! lol Mark

    Calderazzo feedback brake system is such.

    Trevor
     
  10. M.E.H.

    M.E.H. Guest

    [email protected] (Mark) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > In Fact, While we're on this subject, I'd like to ask if anyone here
    > knows of any dealers that sell Pre-Differential Record Calipers?
    >
    > Regardless of Campy's so called tests, what Campy says, or whatever
    > anyone else says, I think the new differential's (Rear) are shit, and
    > I want them off this bike. I ain't going to deal with the exact same
    > problems you describe Gareth, at least not on this particular bike
    > build up. Any help pointing me in the right direction would be
    > appreciated.
    > Your right, I've seen Huffy Calipers work better than these rear
    > Record units.
    > What the hell good are they, if they hang, and drag while riding? Mark


    I don't like my 2004 record brakes either. Switching to Zero Gravity calipers.
    Has anybody out there tried these, and if so , do you like them?
     
  11. Tom Paterson

    Tom Paterson Guest

    >From: [email protected]

    (Mark wrote):

    > Regardless of Campy's so called tests, what Campy says, or whatever
    >> anyone else says, I think the new differential's (Rear) are shit, (snip)


    (M.E.H rejoined):

    >I don't like my 2004 record brakes either. Switching to Zero Gravity
    >calipers.
    >Has anybody out there tried these, and if >so , do you like them?


    Switching before use or feedback?

    This thread has been tragically funny.

    Correct install = proper operation.

    When all else fails, take the bike in to a real shop and see if you can watch
    what they do.

    I made my two pairs work, 100%.

    Lube the spring/caliper drag points. Not the area around there, but where they
    really rub together. Wipe off the slop. --TP
     
  12. Gareth Beale

    Gareth Beale Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected]ospam (Tom Paterson) writes:
    |> >From: [email protected]
    |>
    |> (Mark wrote):
    |>
    |> > Regardless of Campy's so called tests, what Campy says, or whatever
    |> >> anyone else says, I think the new differential's (Rear) are shit, (snip)
    |>
    |> (M.E.H rejoined):
    |>
    |> >I don't like my 2004 record brakes either. Switching to Zero Gravity
    |> >calipers.
    |> >Has anybody out there tried these, and if >so , do you like them?
    |>
    |> Switching before use or feedback?
    |>
    |> This thread has been tragically funny.
    |>

    Well it's gone off on a few tangents. Many people just went after Mark for
    letting off steam.

    |> Correct install = proper operation.

    Stating the obvious I think. But maybe the install instructions don't give enough
    detail. I am glad to hear that the rocking of the calipers is normal, but I
    didn't know that until I heard that from others. In large part my original post
    was looking for some advice on correct installation.

    I followed the instructions to the letter, except initially for the torque
    settings, which I have now corrected. I still see that if I push the caliper from
    one side, it does not return to it's original postion by itself. If I apply the
    brakes it does, and that should be fine. However on 2 previous rides the brake
    has ended up rubbing on one side. It's possible that this had nothing to do with
    the rocking and that it was due to insufficient torquing, which I have now
    corrected. I'll find out on the next few rides.

    |>
    |> When all else fails, take the bike in to a real shop and see if you can watch
    |> what they do.
    |>

    What's a "real shop"? Just kidding. Actually if it isn't fixed this time around I
    will be taking it in to Wright Bros in Seattle. It's a bike repair shop and
    Co-Op. As members we can use the workshop and tools. The owner, Charles Hadran
    has been running it for 30 years, and is very knowledgeable and helpful. He
    doesn't sell bikes, but I try to always buy something whenever I'm there.

    |> I made my two pairs work, 100%.
    |>

    Congratulations.

    |> Lube the spring/caliper drag points. Not the area around there, but where they
    |> really rub together. Wipe off the slop. --TP

    I did follow this suggestion, but I fail to see how it would really make any
    difference (it didn't). The spring rests in a plastic insert, so it's not a
    metal-to-metal contact. Did you observe a difference in the performance of your
    brakes before and after this procedure, or did you just do it when you first
    installed them? If the latter, how do you know it makes any difference?

    I did notice that the spring was not completely symmetrical. It is slightly
    longer on the side with the tension adjuster, and even backing it out all
    the way won't equalize the length. Maybe that doesn't matter.

    Gareth
     
  13. Tom Paterson

    Tom Paterson Guest

    >From: [email protected] (Gareth Beale)

    >|> I made my two pairs work, 100%.
    >|>
    >
    >Congratulations.


    Thanks, it was nothing <g>.

    >I did follow this suggestion [drop of oil on spring rub location], but I fail

    to see how it would really make any difference (it didn't).
    > The spring rests in a plastic insert, so >it's not a metal-to-metal contact.


    "All else had seemed to fail".

    >Did you observe a difference in the performance of your
    >brakes before and after this procedure, or did you just do it when you first
    >installed them? If the latter, how do you know it makes any difference?


    Done on install. Really needed on metal-to-metal, as in older brakes. Maybe the
    plastic makes this obsolete. Sounds like your brake was actually working ok for
    actual brake function, if not for extracurricular activities. --TP
     
  14. Mark

    Mark Guest

    Previous post Shortened for ease of reading:

    Gareth Said:...

    It was nice of Peter
    > to at least assure me that the rocking of the caliper arms was normal. Nobody else
    > mentioned it.
    >
    > Perhaps some were responding to Mark's post, but out of all the responses in the
    > thread only Richards and (one of) Peter's addressed my question. In my experience,
    > this is typical for Usenet. I think we can all do better, and I wish we would.
    >

    Gareth

    Hi Gareth/All, I'm sorry that I myself couldn't have been of more
    help to you on this topic, as evidently, you, and I are in the same
    process of a bike build, or just now recognizing the qualities of the
    Record D-Calipers.

    As another poster mentions that this thread was trumaticallly funny,
    or whatever, I don't think so. Both you, and I kicked this subject
    around with some of the net's most experienced folks, and they helped
    me before numerous times. They came into this thread, with thinking
    caps on, and offered ideas/advice/tech help.

    I'm not saying I was totally lost on this topic, as I'm basically not.
    Out of 9 road bikes I've owned in the past, about 7 had side
    pull/single pivot brakes.
    Two had Centerpull Calipers (Weinmann)

    I kinda know the shortcomings, and qualities of these what are in
    essence sidepulls basically, and I do know how to strip them/rebuild
    them/repair them. There's not much too them really. A Dual Pivot
    Design is more complex.

    I'm a bit more disappointed than lost about these, but I've spent
    enough $$$ on my build up, and that's it. I'm gonna make mine do.

    As far as sidepulls go, this Campy Record Unit I have does appear to
    be the best constructed Sidepull that I've had the displeasure of
    owning. lol

    To cut weight, perhaps Campy could've went to all Ti Calipers, but
    then what would the end cost be? Surely too much for mere mortals to
    afford.

    There's other issues I don't really like about Campy, like the way the
    Derailleur cables are retained/secured by a hair on both front, and
    back Derailleurs?

    You would think after decades of R+D, they would come up with a better
    way to do this with a more positive cable locking arrangement?

    I hope Gareth that you get some satisfactory end results with your
    Calipers.
    Mark
     
  15. richard

    richard Guest

    Didn't mean it literally - I love the feel of them when entering a
    corner at the bottom of a long hill! In fact, they're the only brakes
    I've ever used that have never grabbed (not that they won't ever, but
    they are truly excellent).

    si parla Campagnolo wrote:

    > Richard-<< And when centered and adjusted properly, DO THEY ROCK!!!! >><BR><BR>
    >
    > If I reach down and push on the caliper they do. What's your shouting about?
    >
     
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