2004 Dura-Ace

[Kent]

Let's all hope it catches on with those who have too much money and we can buy up all the NOS
splined stuff. Have this sinking feeling this set up is going to be bad news. Sure Shimano rarely
does anything wrong in their R&D but then these are the guys that brought us BioPace. It may work
and it may be lighter but I'll stick with what I got. Unless they make a carbon version..hmmm.

 

[Qui Si Parla Ca]

kent-<< Let's all hope it catches on with those who have too much money and we can buy up all the
NOS splined stuff.

Have heard that it-

-is 10s and also heard 11s -uses the same hub and heard it needs a new hub -needs a new rear der,
but shifters can be used for 9s(old rder?) -has hidden cables ala campagnolo, has the same routing
as old STI -pinch bolt/BMX style crank

Lighter, no carbon, same titanium amounts- -lots more expensive

Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Richard]

The VeloNews web site had a special "April Fools" edition. In the tech section, there was a
description of Shimano's home re-finance plans to enable folks to buy the latest versions
of XTR & DA.

[email protected] (Kent) wrote in news:7af82a42.0304132156.6098a032 @posting.google.com:

> Let's all hope it catches on with those who have too much money and we can buy up all the NOS
> splined stuff. Have this sinking feeling this set up is going to be bad news. Sure Shimano rarely
> does anything wrong in their R&D but then these are the guys that brought us BioPace. It may work
> and it may be lighter but I'll stick with what I got. Unless they make a carbon version..hmmm.

 

[Frank Jaworski]

Well that clears everything up!

"Qui si parla Campagnolo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> kent-<< Let's all hope it catches on with those who have too much money
and we
> can buy up all the NOS splined stuff.
>
> Have heard that it-
>
> -is 10s and also heard 11s -uses the same hub and heard it needs a new hub -needs a new rear der,
> but shifters can be used for 9s(old rder?) -has hidden cables ala campagnolo, has the same routing
> as old STI -pinch bolt/BMX style crank
>
> Lighter, no carbon, same titanium amounts- -lots more expensive
>
>
> Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
> (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"

 

[Eric Murray]

In article <[email protected]>, Qui si parla Campagnolo
<[email protected]> wrote:
>kent-<< Let's all hope it catches on with those who have too much money and we can buy up all the
>NOS splined stuff.
>
>Have heard that it-
>
>-is 10s and also heard 11s

10s on the pics I've seen.

>-uses the same hub and heard it needs a new hub -needs a new rear der, but shifters can be used for
>9s(old rder?)

Rear der is "rapid rise" backwards on those same pics.

>-has hidden cables ala campagnolo, has the same routing as old STI

A close examanation of the levers on Lance's Sports Illustrated coverbike would probably
answer that...

>-pinch bolt/BMX style crank

Pinchbolts, same as 2003 XTR.

>Lighter, no carbon, same titanium amounts- -lots more expensive

That's always the safe bet no matter which manufacturer.

Eric

 

[Billx]

By 10's and 11's are people suggesting 10 and 11 cogs on the rear cassette? It's bad enough that
only a couple cogs typically get worn before the cassette has to be replaced. Having 10 or 11 only
compounds the waste.

richard wrote in message ...
>The VeloNews web site had a special "April Fools" edition. In the tech section, there was a
>description of Shimano's home re-finance plans to enable folks to buy the latest versions of
>XTR & DA.
>
>[email protected] (Kent) wrote in news:7af82a42.0304132156.6098a032 @posting.google.com:
>
>> Let's all hope it catches on with those who have too much money and we can buy up all the NOS
>> splined stuff. Have this sinking feeling this set up is going to be bad news. Sure Shimano rarely
>> does anything wrong in their R&D but then these are the guys that brought us BioPace. It may work
>> and it may be lighter but I'll stick with what I got. Unless they make a carbon version..hmmm.

 

[Paul Southworth]

In article <[email protected]>, BillX <[email protected]> wrote:
>By 10's and 11's are people suggesting 10 and 11 cogs on the rear cassette? It's bad enough that
>only a couple cogs typically get worn before the cassette has to be replaced. Having 10 or 11 only
>compounds the waste.

Actually I would assume more cogs would get used if they are closer together. Bigger jumps between
cogs forces the rider to stay in one gear and spin faster rather than push a too-big gear.

That's how more cogs affects my riding style anyway (9 still seems like a lot though).

--Paul

 

[Mike S.]

"Paul Southworth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:7SHma.34473$A%[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, BillX <[email protected]> wrote:
> >By 10's and 11's are people suggesting 10 and 11 cogs on the rear
cassette?
> >It's bad enough that only a couple cogs typically get worn before the cassette has to be
> >replaced. Having 10 or 11 only compounds the waste.
>
> Actually I would assume more cogs would get used if they are closer together. Bigger jumps between
> cogs forces the rider to stay in one gear and spin faster rather than push a too-big gear.
>
> That's how more cogs affects my riding style anyway (9 still seems like a lot though).

I can remember upgrading to 7sp, then 8sp, now 9sp. I can honestly say that having more gears is a
good thing when you're hammering. That one tooth difference when you're doing 35mph hanging on to
the wheel in front of you is a Godsend, but isn't that critical at 14mph. In fact, when I'm
toodling, I'll shift (smaller gears) two gears at once 'cause one's just not enough which, oddly
enough, was the spacing when I was riding 6sp & 7sp.

If 10sp uses the same hub as 9sp, I'll think about upgrading, but I've got 5 pair of 8/9sp
wheels that would need upgrading if they change things, so I'll pass till the wheels I have now
are worn out.

Just think about all the barely used Cosmic Carbones that are about to be "obsolete!"

Mike

 

[Dave Mayer]

I hope that Shimano goes straight to 11 cogs at the rear. 11 is obviously 1 faster than 10.
Campagnolo only has 10, so I will need to discard all of my 2002 Record gruppo and go over
to Shimano.

Also, the band Spinal Tap can anchor Shimano's marketing blitz with the tagline: "But this one
goes to 11!".

"BillX" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> By 10's and 11's are people suggesting 10 and 11 cogs on the rear
cassette?
> It's bad enough that only a couple cogs typically get worn before the cassette has to be replaced.
> Having 10 or 11 only compounds the waste.

 

[Sheldon Brown]

Peter Chisholm wrote:

> spam-<< Rear der is "rapid rise" backwards on those same pics.
>
> Heard this as well...so much for shimano cross compatibility, thought they learned their lesson
> with DA 8s stuff...guess not...or maybe that guy was sacked for designing too much
> compatibility in...
>
> maybe he went to campagnolo or Sram...

Not sure what you mean about DA 8s, but low-normal (Rapid Rise in Shimano speak) derailers are
perfectly compatible with everything out there, except that the printed numbers will be reversed.

The first several derailers I owned (Benelux Mark VII & Makr VIII) were all low-normal, and it
really is a superior system.

When parallelogram-type derailers first came in, back in the late '50s, nobody could figure out how
to make the linkage work low-normal, so they switched to high-normal.

The parallelogram system reduced friction so much that it created a net improvement in shifting,
despite the fact that it shifted the "wrong way."

Now Shimano has figured out to give us the best of both worlds. It is true that it takes some mental
readjustment to learn to shift in the opposite direction, but the improved performance and
convenience is probably worth it in the long run.

Sheldon "Glad To See A Return To The Correct Direction" Brown
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[Ryan Cousineau]

In article <[email protected]>, "Dave Mayer"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I hope that Shimano goes straight to 11 cogs at the rear. 11 is obviously 1 faster than 10.
> Campagnolo only has 10, so I will need to discard all of my 2002 Record gruppo and go over to
> Shimano.

Dave, when you're ready to do that, I'll buy your old gruppo.

> Also, the band Spinal Tap can anchor Shimano's marketing blitz with the tagline: "But this one
> goes to 11!".
>
> "BillX" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > By 10's and 11's are people suggesting 10 and 11 cogs on the rear
> cassette?
> > It's bad enough that only a couple cogs typically get worn before the cassette has to be
> > replaced. Having 10 or 11 only compounds the waste.

Nah, because now the wear is distributed over more cogs. Thus, they wear slower on average.

Got an A in Specious Logic,
--
Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club

 

[Benzzoy]

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
Campagnolo) wrote:

> Capt-<< Not sure what you mean about DA 8s, but low-normal (Rapid Rise in Shimano speak) derailers
> are perfectly compatible with everything out there, except that the printed numbers will be
> reversed.
>
> Wondering 'aloud'(on a NG) if the DA 10s rear der is 'backfire plus' and/or if the 10s shifters
> can shift a 9s rear der 10s spacing, or is unique? shimano says it's unique, so back to the DA 8s
> 'uniqueness', is what I meant.

Well, DA 8s is not exactly unique. You can shift DA 8s cogs with newer 9s brifters or DT shifters.
Or, you can use either older DA 8s rear D or newer 9s rear D with that combo. Or, you can use a 8s
brifter with 9s rear D to shift 8s cogs. Or, you can shift 9s cogs with 9s rear D and 8s brifters
(you just lose a gear). The only thing is that you'll need to vary how to attach the cable to the
rear D. AFAIK, Shimano DA 8s cable pull/shift is exactly the same as the newer Shimano 9s system.

Cross-platform user, Benz