2004 La Vuelta a Espana
- Thread starter gntlmn
- Start date
Petacchi won the sprint today but not the stage win because the 25 year old from USPS, David Zabriskie, won the stage with a brilliant breakaway lasting almost the entire length of the stage. He admits that if it weren't for Valverde's crash within 4 km of Zabriskie's breakaway, he may not have taken the stage win because the peloton slowed while Valverde received medical attention and then got right back into the race. But he ended up with a margin of 1:11 victory, and of course, he is happy to have won after such a long ride in the searing heat.
Does anyone have any news on Valverde? I understand he was taken to the hospital for x-rays after the race. Is he going to show up after tomorrow's rest day? I'd hate to see him have to abandon the Vuelta with only a 9 second gap between him in second place on the GC and the leader, Landis.
Does anyone have any news on Valverde? I understand he was taken to the hospital for x-rays after the race. Is he going to show up after tomorrow's rest day? I'd hate to see him have to abandon the Vuelta with only a 9 second gap between him in second place on the GC and the leader, Landis.
At the press section of the official website it is said that doctor Irigoyen was most worried about Valverde's knee, which won't surprise anyone. Interesting to know is that Irigoyen told Valverde (while treating him during the course) about Tony Rominger who won the Vuelta after almost withdrawing. The doc added that a few km's after the fall, Valverde was looking 'a bit more animated'.gntlmn said:
Judging from that, I think he'll be ok.
Virenque said:
There was a discussion quite a ways back on this thread comparing the difficulty of the Tour de France with the Vuelta. It seemed to be a controversy. Some people think the Tour de France is harder and some the Vuelta.
Well, a scientist has taken this argument apart by actually measuring the intensity of each and comparing the total work loads. His conclusion is that the Tour de France and the Vuelta are equally difficult. While the Tour is longer, the peloton tends not to ride as fast because of the longer distances. Therefore, when you analyze the heart rates of the riders over the course of the race, you find that they are lower than for the Vuelta. What the Vuelta lacks in distance it makes up for by having a more viscious peloton which attacks more often and bathes it's riders in a heavier dose of lactic acid. They seem to push themselves to their limits in both Tours.
The scientist who conducted the study is Dr. Alejandro Lucia of Madrid University. He is a consultant to Banesto. The study was done by analyzing heart rates of the riders and then observing how much time the riders spent in each heart rate zone relative to what the same rider would do in the other tour.
Here's the link to the article: http://www.pezcyclingnews.com/?pg=fullstory&id=1593
Nice article ,thanks for the link gntlmn.gntlmn said:
I am in the camp thinking LA Vuelta is the tougest Tour.That opinion is derived purely from listening to the views of top-class riders that have competed in both on a number of occasions.
Take a look at this years Vuelta and how the mountains aren't packaged into 2 neat sessions : they keep coming at you through the last 2 weeks.No respite , its relentless.Thats commonplace for the Vuelta.
I guess to be truely accurate you need to compare each Tour each year , as no doubt every year either tour can be relatively easier or harder depending on how the course is set.
But this years Vuelta for example is tougher than this years TdF if you compare and contrast the stages and how they come.
Roadrash Dunc said:
Well, according to this scientist, the peloton factor is the big mitigator. When the riders feel relatively refreshed, they thrash the heck out of each other on the flats by relentless attacks, and this can be as rough as climbing mountains if you go hard enough. That's why you can't really tell by looking at the routes. In other words, the biggest factor is not so much the routes but the fact that you're up against the strongest riders in the world, and they're going to make you suffer before they let you get ahead of them no matter what the route is like.
If you had to choose between riding solo the Tour de France or the Vuelta, that would be a different question. It's pretty easy to dog it on the flats when you don't have to worry about competition but not so easy to do that in the mountains. There you have to work just to get over the hill.
I agree with the doctor. I think it's mostly the riders pushing each other, not the route, that matters most.
Gossip from the rest day included this interesting spat between Tyler and USPS :
There were reportedly some weird vibes going on between Phonak's Tyler Hamilton and his former teammates of USPS-Berry Floor on Monday's Stage 10 to Xorret de Catí. While Roberto Heras and Alejandro Valverde gained some time on Vuelta a España front runner Floyd Landis on the Cat. 1 Alto Xorret de Catí, the determined American maintained his golden tunic of leadership by just nine seconds over Valverde. But on that steep, final ascent, Hamilton began yelling at USPS rider Triki Beltran to ride harder, which astonished the Spanish rider, who trying to maintain his tempo on the difficult climb.
When Hamilton descended Alto Xorret de Catí post-stage, he stopped to chat to USPS director Dirk Demol, who was surprised to hear the Phonak leader saying that he thought that the Postal squad should have ridden harder to support Floyd on Stage 10. Reached on rest day number one in Agua Dulce, team director Johan Bruyneel told Cyclingnews, "Dirk told me after the stage what Tyler said to him and I was very surprised. I'm really not happy with these comments from Tyler because we all know that our team has been supporting Floyd one hundred percent at the Vuelta a España. Everybody, without exception. Tyler is out of line...sure he can have his opinion on anything, but he should keep it to himself."
Bruyneel explained further that, "Floyd has told me and Dirk and the team how he's been really satisfied about the support we've given him at the Vuelta; from the Team Time Trial and every other stage, especially after Stage 10 on Monday. We've been defending the race win with everything we have. We want to win the Vuelta and it's disappointing to me that a rider of Tyler's stature expresses himself this way... perhaps he should make sure his team is OK first."
I noticed Tyler riding with Floyd , maybe he has a point - afterall Landis is leaving to goto Phonak and Beltran is the local boy only a few seconds back.
There were reportedly some weird vibes going on between Phonak's Tyler Hamilton and his former teammates of USPS-Berry Floor on Monday's Stage 10 to Xorret de Catí. While Roberto Heras and Alejandro Valverde gained some time on Vuelta a España front runner Floyd Landis on the Cat. 1 Alto Xorret de Catí, the determined American maintained his golden tunic of leadership by just nine seconds over Valverde. But on that steep, final ascent, Hamilton began yelling at USPS rider Triki Beltran to ride harder, which astonished the Spanish rider, who trying to maintain his tempo on the difficult climb.
When Hamilton descended Alto Xorret de Catí post-stage, he stopped to chat to USPS director Dirk Demol, who was surprised to hear the Phonak leader saying that he thought that the Postal squad should have ridden harder to support Floyd on Stage 10. Reached on rest day number one in Agua Dulce, team director Johan Bruyneel told Cyclingnews, "Dirk told me after the stage what Tyler said to him and I was very surprised. I'm really not happy with these comments from Tyler because we all know that our team has been supporting Floyd one hundred percent at the Vuelta a España. Everybody, without exception. Tyler is out of line...sure he can have his opinion on anything, but he should keep it to himself."
Bruyneel explained further that, "Floyd has told me and Dirk and the team how he's been really satisfied about the support we've given him at the Vuelta; from the Team Time Trial and every other stage, especially after Stage 10 on Monday. We've been defending the race win with everything we have. We want to win the Vuelta and it's disappointing to me that a rider of Tyler's stature expresses himself this way... perhaps he should make sure his team is OK first."
I noticed Tyler riding with Floyd , maybe he has a point - afterall Landis is leaving to goto Phonak and Beltran is the local boy only a few seconds back.
Hamilton over 13 mins down with still the last cat1 climb to go.Probably going to lose another 20 mins today.
Bad tour for him even with that ITT win.
I'd tell him to disband if i was his Director Sportiff and concentrate on the Worlds.But its not in his nature.
Bad tour for him even with that ITT win.
I'd tell him to disband if i was his Director Sportiff and concentrate on the Worlds.But its not in his nature.
I don't get it. Can someone explain this. Herras has a terrible TDF in the mountains and yet looks as strong as an ox in Spain. Cunego looked unbeatable In Italy and now in Spain, he just can't keep up. There are some constants, good and bad. The good: Sastre and Mancebo. The bad: Hamilton and Beloki. Why does the top performance of these mountain+GC riders vary so much from race to race?
Probably not a straightfoward answer here- Different races at different times of year with differing levels of fitness. Giro was probably not the highest level of competition (IMHO) and Cunego targeted it. The TDF clearly has the highest level of competition and intensity-everybody targets it (rarely does someone ride it just to get in shape for the worlds-see veulta or othe rraces).Frihed89 said:
The tour also contains increaesd number and length of flat stages raced at a high pace- this tends to weaken the slightly built climbers.
Why is it too hard to understand for you? The fact that riders are only strong in one specific time in the season is not new. Armstrong would most probably be out of the podium had he decided to participate in the Spanish Vuelta too. The last riders who won 2 grand tours on the same year were Pantani in 1998 and Indurain in 1993, 1994. It is almost impossible to be in top form all the year.Frihed89 said:
Frihed89 said:
Heras did have a terrible Tour de France, but remember, he pulled out early and did not finish. Instead, while so many other riders went to the Olympics, like Tyler Hamilton and company, Heras focused his entire training on the Vuelta. He has had a good stretch now since when he quit TdF and the start of the tour, and it's not unusual for him to be in top form in the Vuelta. In fact, that's what he does every year. I admit I did have my doubts about Heras this year due to his poor TdF showing, but you have to hand it to the guy. He finally got his act back together again in his home country where pride runs deep for him.
Take a look at the GC after stage 12, a brutal stage with an hors category ending after already 2 cat 1 climbs:
1 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros 44.50.50
2 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Banesto 0.35
3 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana-Kelme 0.49
4 Isidro Nozal (Spa) Liberty Seguros 1.12
5 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal Service p/b Berry Floor 2.19
6 Manuel Beltran (Spa) US Postal Service p/b Berry Floor 2.40
7 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 3.16
8 Santiago Perez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.22
9 Angel Gomez (Spa) Paternina-Costa De Almeria 5.07
10 David Blanco (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana-Kelme 6.12
11 Carlos Garcia Quesada (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana-Kelme 7.26
12 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Saeco 7.36
13 Luis Perez (Spa) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone 7.51
14 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Vini Caldirola-Nobili Rubinetterie 8.39
15 Francisco José Lara (Spa) Paternina-Costa De Almeria 9.45
Notice there are 12 Spaniards, 2 Italians, and one American in the top 15. That's pretty heavily weighted toward the Spanish climbers now.
1 Roberto Heras (Spa) Liberty Seguros 44.50.50
2 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) Illes Balears-Banesto 0.35
3 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana-Kelme 0.49
4 Isidro Nozal (Spa) Liberty Seguros 1.12
5 Floyd Landis (USA) US Postal Service p/b Berry Floor 2.19
6 Manuel Beltran (Spa) US Postal Service p/b Berry Floor 2.40
7 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 3.16
8 Santiago Perez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 4.22
9 Angel Gomez (Spa) Paternina-Costa De Almeria 5.07
10 David Blanco (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana-Kelme 6.12
11 Carlos Garcia Quesada (Spa) Comunidad Valenciana-Kelme 7.26
12 Damiano Cunego (Ita) Saeco 7.36
13 Luis Perez (Spa) Cofidis, le credit par Telephone 7.51
14 Stefano Garzelli (Ita) Vini Caldirola-Nobili Rubinetterie 8.39
15 Francisco José Lara (Spa) Paternina-Costa De Almeria 9.45
Notice there are 12 Spaniards, 2 Italians, and one American in the top 15. That's pretty heavily weighted toward the Spanish climbers now.
Landis did amazingly well to only lose 2.19 on heras given he got dropped so early.
Ride of the day behind Heras imo.Valverde did well too considering.
Ride of the day behind Heras imo.Valverde did well too considering.
Roadrash Dunc said:
Yes, Valverde's effort has got to be seen as heroic, and I think he'll gut it out now to the end. Notice the backup that Heras is getting with Nozal by looking at the Stage results for today:
1º 1 HERAS, Roberto ESP LST 4:19:30
2º 118 PEREZ, Santiago ESP PHO a 34
3º 81 MANCEBO, Francisco ESP IBB a 53
4º 11 VALVERDE, Alejandro ESP KEL a 1:27
5º 2 NOZAL, Isidro ESP LST a 1:27
6º 105 GOMEZ, Angel ESP ALM a 1:38
7º 55 PEREZ, Luis ESP COF a 1:38
8º 201 GARZELLI, Stefano ITA VIN a 2:02
9º 42 ARREITUNANDIA, Peio ESP BAQ a 2:17
10º 171 SASTRE, Carlos ESP CSC a 2:28
11º 192 BELTRAN, Manuel ESP USP a 2:28
12º 106 LARA, Francisco José ESP ALM a 2:28
13º 12 BLANCO, David ESP KEL a 2:35
14º 151 CUNEGO, Damiano ITA SAE a 3:06
15º 194 LANDIS, Floyd a 3:06
Landis must have a number in his head as to how much time he can lose in the mountains to the weaker TT man, Heras. I'd really like to know what that number is, but I don't think Landis is going to say, nor Heras to offer that information either. I think Heras is fighting mightily to put as much time on everyone as he can in the mountains. He's not going to be a time trialer no matter how much better he's climbing now than during the Tour de France.
Similar threads
