2006 Schwinn Varsity at Wal*Mart



I saw one last night at my local wallymart. I was rather surprised to
see a 'road bike' there. Actually two road bikes. The other was a GMC
Denali.

First the Denali. I saw one last summer on Ragbrai when it came in to
the bike repair shop with a flat. It had long stem Schrader valve
tubes. Nothing we had would work. The shop owner tried to sell them a
new wheel. I thought these bikes came packaged with new SUVS. I'm
guessing wal mart is dumping them now. $149

Okay the Varsity. Bare naked 'alloy' (aluminum) frame. Tig welded. A
sort of polished look. Fat aero down tube. Fastback seat stays.
Vertical rear droputs. Bolted on rear wheel. QR front but no plastic.
Skinny steel handlebars painted black, just straight thru the front
open stem. Weird butterfly shifters on the handlebars next to the
stem. Old fashioned aero brake levers. Fork is steel shaped and
painted black to look carbon. Aero rims with very long stem Presta
valve tubes. Good luck to the typical wall mart customer trying to
figure those out. $199. One size fits all! No mention of sizes but
it looked to be about a 23" frame. And of course the handle bar stem
was soooo loose I could easily turn the bars while the wheel didn't
move. Typical department store poor assembly. Overall this bike looks
great from 50 feet away but up close is pure ****. All non-branded
parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> I saw one last night at my local wallymart. I was rather surprised to
> see a 'road bike' there. Actually two road bikes. The other was a GMC
> Denali.
>
> First the Denali. I saw one last summer on Ragbrai when it came in to
> the bike repair shop with a flat. It had long stem Schrader valve
> tubes. Nothing we had would work. The shop owner tried to sell them a
> new wheel.



How about a grommet/adapter with a long-stem presta valve tube, or
slipping a piece of tubing over a long-stem presta valve tube, or even
wrapping said stem in electrical tape, etc.?

A new wheel sounds a little over the top.




> I thought these bikes came packaged with new SUVS. I'm
> guessing wal mart is dumping them now. $149
>
> Okay the Varsity. Bare naked 'alloy' (aluminum) frame. Tig welded. A
> sort of polished look. Fat aero down tube. Fastback seat stays.
> Vertical rear droputs. Bolted on rear wheel. QR front but no plastic.
> Skinny steel handlebars painted black, just straight thru the front
> open stem. Weird butterfly shifters on the handlebars next to the
> stem. Old fashioned aero brake levers. Fork is steel shaped and
> painted black to look carbon. Aero rims with very long stem Presta
> valve tubes. Good luck to the typical wall mart customer trying to
> figure those out. $199. One size fits all! No mention of sizes but
> it looked to be about a 23" frame. And of course the handle bar stem
> was soooo loose I could easily turn the bars while the wheel didn't
> move. Typical department store poor assembly. Overall this bike looks
> great from 50 feet away but up close is pure ****. All non-branded
> parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts.



Geez, no name parts with a bad finish. Sounds like a cheap bike. Oh
wait, it *is* a cheap bike!

BTW, what does your shop have in the way of a new, derailer equipped,
non-suspension bicycle for $199 (or even $249) that's a better choice?
Anyone?

And regarding assembly quality, given some of the pure s*** I've seen
come out of some LBSs, I'd tread carefully.


> But it has the
> Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
> Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.
 
On 15 Feb 2006 10:30:34 -0800, "[email protected]"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I saw one last night at my local wallymart. I was rather surprised to
>see a 'road bike' there. Actually two road bikes. The other was a GMC
>Denali.
>
>First the Denali. I saw one last summer on Ragbrai when it came in to
>the bike repair shop with a flat. It had long stem Schrader valve
>tubes. Nothing we had would work. The shop owner tried to sell them a
>new wheel. I thought these bikes came packaged with new SUVS. I'm
>guessing wal mart is dumping them now. $149


No, the Denali is a result of a branding agreement between GM and Kent
Bicycles, and as far as I can tell, only Wal-Mart is carrying the
bikes. They have been available from Wal-Mart's website for quite a
while (at least 6 months, probably longer), and first began showing up
in most of the stores last month. The popularity of Lance Armstrong
is the only likely reason for the return of the RBSO to the department
store lineup. The Denali is not sold at car dealers AFAICD. GM has
apparently not been trying to emulate VW's Jetta/Trek marketing
effort; no GM vehicle comes with a bike as an accessory. (In the
dealership world, VW's campaign caused much sniggering, with people
saying "Yeah, the Jetta's such a great car that you need to carry a
bike with you to make sure you can get home.")

>Okay the Varsity. Bare naked 'alloy' (aluminum) frame. Tig welded. A
>sort of polished look. Fat aero down tube. Fastback seat stays.
>Vertical rear droputs. Bolted on rear wheel. QR front but no plastic.


Plastic what?

> Skinny steel handlebars painted black, just straight thru the front
>open stem. Weird butterfly shifters on the handlebars next to the
>stem.


Marginally better than the old stem-mounted shifters of Varsities I
recall. I'd probably loathe them much less than the twist-grips that
Kent has shoehorned onto the Denali via a three-piece handlebar.

>Old fashioned aero brake levers. Fork is steel shaped and
>painted black to look carbon. Aero rims with very long stem Presta
>valve tubes. Good luck to the typical wall mart customer trying to
>figure those out. $199. One size fits all! No mention of sizes but
>it looked to be about a 23" frame.


That big? They usually shoot for the area of a 21.5" to 22" top tube
length from what I've seen.

>And of course the handle bar stem
>was soooo loose I could easily turn the bars while the wheel didn't
>move. Typical department store poor assembly.


Not unusual, but this is not the bike manufacturer's fault except
insofar as dealing with a company like Wal-Mart guarantees that the
bike assembly will be shoddy in a significant percentage of cases.

>Overall this bike looks
>great from 50 feet away but up close is pure ****. All non-branded
>parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
>Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
>Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.


The Varsity was never a high-end bike as I recall; it was their
entry-level road-bike-ish (heavy, clunky) unit if memory serves.
Schwinn's overall value (if not always its quality) moved from
"legendary" to "alleged" to "a legend" as it slid into trouble in the
years before it was borged by Pacific. The Schwinn name is now just a
marketing label IMO. Still, for $199, what road bike exists to
compete with it? *Properly* assembled, it's probably not a completely
horrible POS, and it might just get someone of limited means on to a
bike. Fit is an issue that a retailer like Wal-Mart is utterly
unprepared to deal with in a bike. Clothing and shoes, sure; the
customer knows what the sizes are about in that area, and all Wal-Mart
must do is put them on the rack. How many typical Wal-Mart customers
would pick the right size of bike if it was sitting there? My guess
is "not many". Yes, in a perfect world, people (both in the company
and its customer base) would care about that, and there would be a
guide to fit guesstimation, a salescritter who knew what it meant and
had the ability to assits the custoemr by explaining it in words of
less than one syllable, and a selection of frame sizes. In the real
world of what's possible in a market with limited demand for road
bikes, zero comprehension of them by the average Wal-Mart customer,
and no talent in the sales force, it's bloody well amazing that they
have two bikes that look like a roadie at all.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
> parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
> Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
> Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.


Are you saying that there are people who look back fondly on the
Varsity?
 
Werehatrack wrote:
> GM has
> apparently not been trying to emulate VW's Jetta/Trek marketing
> effort; no GM vehicle comes with a bike as an accessory.


That's not entirely correct.
The Hummer division has a co-branded mountain bike (Montague folder)
and there are a range of Cadillac branded mountain and road bikes. From
the pictures and specs, they appear to be decent quality for but I'm
sure they are overpriced by at least 100%.

The Hummer bike is listed as an accessory under "wheels" on the
hummer.com website and is also shown at hummerbikes.com. I don't know
if the Cadillac bikes are available direct from the dealers as
accessorys.

All this really means is that GM is willing to ***** out its brands as
part of some crazy scheme to increase market awareness. As if someone
would be convinced to purchase a Hummer, Cadillac, or Yukon after
seeing one of these bikes. In the case of the Denali bike, I'd rather
try my luck with a Yugo.
 
On 15 Feb 2006 14:42:00 -0800, "amakyonin" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>All this really means is that GM is willing to ***** out its brands as
>part of some crazy scheme to increase market awareness. As if someone
>would be convinced to purchase a Hummer, Cadillac, or Yukon after
>seeing one of these bikes.


And in the case of the Denali, any discerning cyclist would have the
firm association of that name with "cheap and cheesy".

>In the case of the Denali bike, I'd rather
>try my luck with a Yugo.


I still wonder whose foolish idea it was to brand a *road bike* with
the name of something that's bloated, huge, inefficient, lumbering,
incredibly heavy, and exemplary of everything that a road bike is
*not*. On first encounter, my inherent reaction was "Well, if you're
trying to find a way to tell me that this bike's exactly what I don't
want, you couldn't have picked a much better name."

With the Hummer, at least the image of off-road capability is
reasonably well-founded. With the Denali, which is a frilly lodge
queen if there ever was one, even a mountain bike would have suffered
by association.

As for Cadillac, they lost most of their slight remaining credibility
with me when they started rebranding a Suburban with their badge, and
the rest went away when they came out with their rebadged version of
the Chevy Avalanche, a.k.a. "the world's largest Tonka toy[1]".




[1] Apologies to Tonka.

--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
On 15 Feb 2006 14:08:23 -0800, "Adam Rush"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
>> Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
>> Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.

>
>Are you saying that there are people who look back fondly on the
>Varsity?


Sure, why not? I bought one when I was 12 years old, I paid around $70
for it. This was in 1967 and it was the bike to have, when riding to
Jr high school. I had the twin sided rear baskets, to carry my books
and a very cool chrome cabled speedometer. It was a way cool metallic
blue.

Compared to my current bike, or even the French 10-speed that I bought
in 1976, the Varsity was nothing special. But when I was 12, it was.


Life is Good!
Jeff
 
[email protected] wrote:
> If your going to lower level to buy a bike
> Walmart,Costco,ect. Bring tools along and go over the bike to be safe
> and not sorry.


Most everyone else posts to bash the bike and cry about how horrible it is.
Not you, crazy. You post insightful information that actually adds to the
conversation.

The most insightful post yet. Bravo.
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
 
> The Varsity was never a high-end bike as I recall; it was their
> entry-level road-bike-ish (heavy, clunky) unit if memory serves.
> Schwinn's overall value (if not always its quality) moved from
> "legendary" to "alleged" to "a legend" as it slid into trouble in the
> years before it was borged by Pacific. The Schwinn name is now just a
> marketing label IMO. Still, for $199, what road bike exists to
> compete with it?


If you can go just slightly higher, I would suggest that a $249 hybrid,
available at many bicycle shops and (hopefully, though not always... shops
do vary, but we're not all as bad as one poster believes) a high-quality
assembly job. Plus a typically free 30-day check, on-site repair work, etc.

No, it's not a "road" bike, but it does a better job at being what it looks
like it is. A very functional bike that's reasonably efficient and will last
much longer than its department-store brethren.

> *Properly* assembled, it's probably not a completely
> horrible POS, and it might just get someone of limited means on to a
> bike. Fit is an issue that a retailer like Wal-Mart is utterly
> unprepared to deal with in a bike. Clothing and shoes, sure; the
> customer knows what the sizes are about in that area, and all Wal-Mart
> must do is put them on the rack. How many typical Wal-Mart customers
> would pick the right size of bike if it was sitting there? My guess
> is "not many".


But they take care of the sizing issue quite nicely, by only making one
size. :>)

> Yes, in a perfect world, people (both in the company
> and its customer base) would care about that, and there would be a
> guide to fit guesstimation, a salescritter who knew what it meant and
> had the ability to assits the custoemr by explaining it in words of
> less than one syllable, and a selection of frame sizes. In the real
> world of what's possible in a market with limited demand for road
> bikes, zero comprehension of them by the average Wal-Mart customer,
> and no talent in the sales force, it's bloody well amazing that they
> have two bikes that look like a roadie at all.


There's a certain irony that a move towards "road" bikes makes sizing much
more of an issue (than it is with "mountain" bikes). If *Mart applied any
intelligence toward selling bikes that would be more practical for the
customer, they'd stick to hybrid or mountain-style bikes, with low,
relatively-short top tubes and highly adjustable stems. But that's not what
they do. They sell BSOs- bike shaped objects- because they look like the
more expensive, more durable bikes seen in bicycle shops.

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
 

> And in the case of the Denali, any discerning cyclist would have the
> firm association of that name with "cheap and cheesy".
>
>>In the case of the Denali bike, I'd rather
>>try my luck with a Yugo.

>
> I still wonder whose foolish idea it was to brand a *road bike* with
> the name of something that's bloated, huge, inefficient, lumbering,
> incredibly heavy, and exemplary of everything that a road bike is
> *not*. On first encounter, my inherent reaction was "Well, if you're
> trying to find a way to tell me that this bike's exactly what I don't
> want, you couldn't have picked a much better name."


How do you know they didn't name it after the mountain in Alaska?
 
On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:58:02 -0700, "Partly Animal"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>
>
>> And in the case of the Denali, any discerning cyclist would have the
>> firm association of that name with "cheap and cheesy".
>>
>>>In the case of the Denali bike, I'd rather
>>>try my luck with a Yugo.

>>
>> I still wonder whose foolish idea it was to brand a *road bike* with
>> the name of something that's bloated, huge, inefficient, lumbering,
>> incredibly heavy, and exemplary of everything that a road bike is
>> *not*. On first encounter, my inherent reaction was "Well, if you're
>> trying to find a way to tell me that this bike's exactly what I don't
>> want, you couldn't have picked a much better name."

>
>How do you know they didn't name it after the mountain in Alaska?


Because the mountain is just Denali, and Kent's description of it
explitly adds the GMC to the name in places. (Not that I'd put it
beyond the realm of possibility that GM would try to get the mountain
renamed to match the vehicle, but so far the mountain is just Denali.)
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
On Thu, 16 Feb 2006 05:56:42 GMT, "Mike Jacoubowsky"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>> The Varsity was never a high-end bike as I recall; it was their
>> entry-level road-bike-ish (heavy, clunky) unit if memory serves.
>> Schwinn's overall value (if not always its quality) moved from
>> "legendary" to "alleged" to "a legend" as it slid into trouble in the
>> years before it was borged by Pacific. The Schwinn name is now just a
>> marketing label IMO. Still, for $199, what road bike exists to
>> compete with it?

>
>If you can go just slightly higher, I would suggest that a $249 hybrid,
>available at many bicycle shops and (hopefully, though not always... shops
>do vary, but we're not all as bad as one poster believes) a high-quality
>assembly job. Plus a typically free 30-day check, on-site repair work, etc.
>
>No, it's not a "road" bike, but it does a better job at being what it looks
>like it is. A very functional bike that's reasonably efficient and will last
>much longer than its department-store brethren.


I'd expect the average buyer to be happier with a hybrid anyway.

>There's a certain irony that a move towards "road" bikes makes sizing much
>more of an issue (than it is with "mountain" bikes). If *Mart applied any
>intelligence toward selling bikes that would be more practical for the
>customer, they'd stick to hybrid or mountain-style bikes, with low,
>relatively-short top tubes and highly adjustable stems.


Or at least they would add a hybrid to their existing lineup of
mountain bikes, instead of just having the extremes; knobby-tired
mountain, skinny-tire road and fat-tire cruiser.

>But that's not what
>they do. They sell BSOs- bike shaped objects- because they look like the
>more expensive, more durable bikes seen in bicycle shops.


Pfui. May they lose more sales to the lbs.
--
Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
Some gardening required to reply via email.
Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
 
>> parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
>> Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
>> Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.

>
> Are you saying that there are people who look back fondly on the
> Varsity?


Absolutely! I owned three of them. The first one (brown), when I was 12 I
believe, was stolen. The second one (green) was returned to the dealer,
because they could never get the front derailleur to shift correctly, so
they gave me another (yellow).

I rode those bikes places that even now are challenging. I remember getting
a AAA map and looking at nearby towns and thinking wow, is it possible I
could ride there? My first "adventure" was during halftime of a playoff
football game, and I rode all the way from Redwood City to... Woodside! And
back. Then it was up to Skyline with a good friend of mine; I had a rack and
a large box on the back of my bike (I used it for delivering newspapers),
and we'd fuel ourselves with 2-liter bottles of coke or whatever. And the
fact that we rode Schwinn Varsitys all the way down into Portola State Park
and back... that's one steep grade.

As far as we knew, we had way-cool racing bikes. I remember once or twice
being passed by very friendly guys in fancy-looking clothes. Unfortunately,
it's extremely rare that I ever come across the flip side of that (me being
in fancy-looking clothes, riding past a couple young kids out on a grand
adventure).

But yes, there were some of us who really thought our Varsitys were cool
bikes, and we had the Schwinn catalog, and knew the exact spec differences
between a Varisty and the Continental (chrome tubular fork... what's the big
deal?). And thought only really rich guys could own a SuperSport, with its
brazed chrome-moly frame. Aluminum rims too, but still had Ashtabula cranks.
Didn't seem like a good buy at almost twice the price of the Varsity. But
the Paramount... $354 for full Campy. Obviously it must be worthy. It
certainly was foreign (in terms of parts & brands we didn't know).

--Mike Jacoubowsky
Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReaction.com
Redwood City & Los Altos, CA USA
 
Werehatrack wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Feb 2006 22:58:02 -0700, "Partly Animal"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> >
> >> And in the case of the Denali, any discerning cyclist would have the
> >> firm association of that name with "cheap and cheesy".
> >>
> >>>In the case of the Denali bike, I'd rather
> >>>try my luck with a Yugo.
> >>
> >> I still wonder whose foolish idea it was to brand a *road bike* with
> >> the name of something that's bloated, huge, inefficient, lumbering,
> >> incredibly heavy, and exemplary of everything that a road bike is
> >> *not*. On first encounter, my inherent reaction was "Well, if you're
> >> trying to find a way to tell me that this bike's exactly what I don't
> >> want, you couldn't have picked a much better name."

> >
> >How do you know they didn't name it after the mountain in Alaska?

>
> Because the mountain is just Denali, and Kent's description of it
> explitly adds the GMC to the name in places. (Not that I'd put it
> beyond the realm of possibility that GM would try to get the mountain
> renamed to match the vehicle, but so far the mountain is just Denali.)


Leave it to Gale Norton and we may well end up with "GMC Denali
National Park". :(

--
Tom Sherman
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> ...
> There's a certain irony that a move towards "road" bikes makes sizing much
> more of an issue (than it is with "mountain" bikes). If *Mart applied any
> intelligence toward selling bikes that would be more practical for the
> customer, they'd stick to hybrid or mountain-style bikes, with low,
> relatively-short top tubes and highly adjustable stems. But that's not what
> they do. They sell BSOs- bike shaped objects- because they look like the
> more expensive, more durable bikes seen in bicycle shops.


If intelligence was applied by both retailer and customer, they would
not sell bikes with poorly functioning full "suspensions" and
multi-speed derailleur systems, but rather something modeled after the
English "Roadster" or Dutch city bike. The money saved on eliminating
the aforementioned items would instead be spent on higher quality
bearings, spokes, rims, etc. to provide a more durable and reliable
inexpensive bicycle for "transportation" cyclists.

--
Tom Sherman
 
> Okay the Varsity. Bare naked 'alloy' (aluminum) frame. Tig welded. A
> sort of polished look. Fat aero down tube. Fastback seat stays.
> Vertical rear droputs. Bolted on rear wheel. QR front but no plastic.
> Skinny steel handlebars painted black, just straight thru the front
> open stem. Weird butterfly shifters on the handlebars next to the
> stem. Old fashioned aero brake levers. Fork is steel shaped and
> painted black to look carbon. Aero rims with very long stem Presta
> valve tubes. Good luck to the typical wall mart customer trying to
> figure those out. $199. One size fits all! No mention of sizes but
> it looked to be about a 23" frame. And of course the handle bar stem
> was soooo loose I could easily turn the bars while the wheel didn't
> move. Typical department store poor assembly. Overall this bike looks
> great from 50 feet away but up close is pure ****. All non-branded
> parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
> Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
> Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.

--------------
In other words, "a classic."
 
In article <[email protected]>,
"Adam Rush" <[email protected]> wrote:

> > parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
> > Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
> > Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.

>
> Are you saying that there are people who look back fondly on the
> Varsity?


You bet. My college girlfriend had one - in screaming zonker yellow.

Or maybe I'm just fond of the memory of her on it . . .

--
Strayhorn

³Excuse me, brother, who you jivin' with that cosmik debris?" - F.Z.
 
Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>> The Varsity was never a high-end bike as I recall; it was their
>> entry-level road-bike-ish (heavy, clunky) unit if memory serves.
>> Schwinn's overall value (if not always its quality) moved from
>> "legendary" to "alleged" to "a legend" as it slid into trouble in the
>> years before it was borged by Pacific. The Schwinn name is now just
>> a marketing label IMO. Still, for $199, what road bike exists to
>> compete with it?

>
> If you can go just slightly higher, I would suggest that a $249
> hybrid, available at many bicycle shops and (hopefully, though not
> always... shops do vary, but we're not all as bad as one poster
> believes) a high-quality assembly job. Plus a typically free 30-day
> check, on-site repair work, etc.
> No, it's not a "road" bike, but it does a better job at being what it
> looks like it is. A very functional bike that's reasonably efficient
> and will last much longer than its department-store brethren.


Not only that, but people who buy the Walmart road bikes will complain of
the low handlebar height, and correspondingly raise the stem or rotate the
handlebars so that the brake levers are almost horizontal, and buy a huge
mushy saddle. At that point, the whole thing has *become* a hybrid!
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training
 
Adam Rush wrote:
> > parts. Non existant quality. Bad finish on most parts. But it has the
> > Schwinn name on it so it must have Schwinn's legendary quality and a
> > Varsity to boot. Who wouldn't want one? Okay, not me.

>
> Are you saying that there are people who look back fondly on the
> Varsity?


Look back? Lots of people still ride their Schwinn Varsities. Old
Varsities are tanks. They will never, ever die.

How many of these Wal-Mart bikes will be rideable in 30 years? Or even
in 3 years? I think they're so inane. Wherever you stand on
department store bikes, there's no reason to get a department store
road bike. As I pointed out in the last "Denali" post, you could buy
an old Varsity or Continental for everybody in the family for these
prices. And they will never, ever die.

-Vee