2008 Ftp?



Squint said:
It's nothing complicated. I simply use method #6:

http://www.cyclingforums.com/showpost.php?p=3237207&postcount=3

Rest period is 5 mins and if I wasn't doing them on an ergometer, I would take the average of the 3. But because I'm doing them on the erg, I set the power for all 3 intervals equally and I either complete the workout or I blow up at some point and literally grind to a halt.
I use #6. No tapering yadda yadda (except when I get sick!). It's the 2nd most accurate method and definitely practical indoors where i spend half the year.

20MP x 95% regardless of pre-exhaustion, doesn't even make the SDS list.
 
Hi

rmur17 said:
20MP x 95% regardless of pre-exhaustion, doesn't even make the SDS list.
Yes, I had a look at the list. Is it not odd that the method put forward in the Allen & Coggan book as "the best way to begin" is not even on the list! Struggling to understand that a bit :confused:

Think on balance I'll stick to the method in the book and just keep it consistent and test 3-4 times per year. Looks as though the list might be comparing apples and pears a bit.

Thanks for everyone's help.

PBUK
 
Porkyboy said:
Hi

Yes, I had a look at the list. Is it not odd that the method put forward in the Allen & Coggan book as "the best way to begin" is not even on the list! Struggling to understand that a bit :confused:

Think on balance I'll stick to the method in the book and just keep it consistent and test 3-4 times per year. Looks as though the list might be comparing apples and pears a bit.

Thanks for everyone's help.

PBUK
hi there.
The main thing for your own sanity is to keep it consistent for sure. Considering even *true* PM accuracy and the like, IMHO it's silly to ever try and pin down FTP to the nearest watt or two. I always round to the nearest 5W - up or down dependng on how brave I am that day ;0)

As I've been using power since 2002, my chosen method has also been validated from time to time using other methods. For instance, the gold 40k TT or the occasional very hard 1-hr NP road effort etc. So I'm very comfortable using #6.

Also since I have a ton of data, FWIW I can also say that my own FTP/20MP ratio (flat-out 20) is 0.96 ... but even given that --- I'm loathe to hang my hat on a single 20MP effort.

I think AC once said "a lot can happen between 20-minutes and an hour" :D

I believe the major apples-oranges discrepancy would be between PT/SRM users, maybe Polar and Ergomo, vs. the "trainer curve crew".

all the best
 
Porkyboy said:
... Is it not odd that the method put forward in the Allen & Coggan book as "the best way to begin" is not even on the list! Struggling to understand that a bit :confused:..
The book was a collaboration, there's a lot of places where Hunter and Coggan don't necessarily see eye to eye. Based on Andy's comments here and elsewhere the 20 minute * 0.95 protocol(and don't skip the pre fatigue steps before the actual test) represent a method Hunter likes. FWIW my FTP has historically come closer to 0.98 * 20 minute MMP based on actual time trials, Monod tests and other methods on that list. That 3% difference in estimates doesn't sound like much but it's the difference between an FTP of ~295 watts and ~305 watts based on 310 for 20 minutes. Yeah 10 watts isn't going to make or break my training but it starts to matter as important time trials approach and I want to plan my pacing.

I'm with rmur, tracking long interval power is just part of training so that method doesn't require any special days set aside to test.

-Dave
 
Porkyboy said:
Hi

Just out of interest is everyone using the same method of determining their FTP? The reason I ask is because I can get very different results depending on the protocol I use.

Using the 95% of the average power for a 20 minute TT as per Allen & Coggan's book (ie after the 100rpm spin sets and the 5 min flat out TT) my FTP would measure lower than if I rested well and then just blasted out a 20 minute TT from fresh and took 95% of that.

Just curious, wondering if everyone does the "long" test - and my is it long or what! :eek:

PBUK
I'm a big fan of the 2 hrs @ 95% of FTP method. :D
 
Re-posting from the old sticky FTP thread..

Some impressive numbers here. I'm the resident skinny guy weakling. This will be my first season racing, I hope, pending how my clavicle heals. I didn't get the PowerTap until after I was healed up enough to ride again. So my power is probably down a little.. we shall see how quickly it comes back.

Age: 32
FTP: 240
Weight: 66.2kg (146 lbs)
= 3.62
 
mikeyp123 said:
Re-posting from the old sticky FTP thread..

Some impressive numbers here. I'm the resident skinny guy weakling. This will be my first season racing, I hope, pending how my clavicle heals. I didn't get the PowerTap until after I was healed up enough to ride again. So my power is probably down a little.. we shall see how quickly it comes back.

Age: 32
FTP: 240
Weight: 66.2kg (146 lbs)
= 3.62
it's all about progress :D
 
After observing this test, I had to put it up because the numbers stunning.

KP..................265W........48.5kg...... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg......5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster...........344W......71kg.....4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.8W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
strader...............262W.......68kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)
 
kclw said:
After observing this test, I had to put it up because the numbers stunning.

KP..................265W........48.5kg...... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
That is excellent for a female, for sure. Which nation will she represent at the Olympics?
 
KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster............344W......71kg.......4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
strader...............262W.......68kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)
 
rmur17 said:
KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster............344W......71kg.......4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
strader...............262W.......68kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)
Thats some serious power people are laying down. Hey Rick I'm waiting for you to post those SST silver bullet workouts to the time trialling forum. When's it coming dude?
 
KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Markster............344W......71kg.......4.85W/kg
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

Did my first ever cat 5 road race on Sunday (I'm a mountain biker/cyclocrosser). It was on a 11 mile hilly course, three laps. On the beginning of the last lap I got away on a three person brake. Problem was the other two guys were on the same team and didn't seem to want to work with me. They wore themselves out trying to drop me and fell back into the peloton. I was able to hold the brake solo for over twenty minutes, and caught the open masters 50+ group who started ahead of us. At that point I was out of sight of the pack 5 peloton, but made a really dumb move: I sped by the 50+ group instead of hanging on the back for a few minutes to rest. A few minutes later I started to develop a nasty leg cramp and had to ramp down to make sure I would be able to finish the race. I'm not yet comfortable drinking from my water bottle while riding in the pack, which I think is why I developed the leg cramp - just didn't drink enough. The pack caught me on the last major climb and I ended up finishing in the middle of a downhill bunch sprint. :(
The good news is I posted some PB power numbers: 285 watts normalized over the last 1 hour, 20 minute average of 298 watts, and 10 minutes at 306 watts. Didn't win but I got the best workout of any cat 5. :D
 
strader said:
At that point I was out of sight of the pack 5 peloton, but made a really dumb move: I sped by the 50+ group instead of hanging on the back for a few minutes to rest.
No, you didn't because drafting off of riders from a separate race is usually considered cheating and would subject you to disqualification.
 
strader said:
Did my first ever cat 5 road race on Sunday (I'm a mountain biker/cyclocrosser). It was on a 11 mile hilly course, three laps. On the beginning of the last lap I got away on a three person brake. Problem was the other two guys were on the same team and didn't seem to want to work with me. They wore themselves out trying to drop me and fell back into the peloton. I was able to hold the brake solo for over twenty minutes, and caught the open masters 50+ group who started ahead of us. At that point I was out of sight of the pack 5 peloton, but made a really dumb move: I sped by the 50+ group instead of hanging on the back for a few minutes to rest. A few minutes later I started to develop a nasty leg cramp and had to ramp down to make sure I would be able to finish the race. I'm not yet comfortable drinking from my water bottle while riding in the pack, which I think is why I developed the leg cramp - just didn't drink enough. The pack caught me on the last major climb and I ended up finishing in the middle of a downhill bunch sprint. :(
The good news is I posted some PB power numbers: 285 watts normalized over the last 1 hour, 20 minute average of 298 watts, and 10 minutes at 306 watts. Didn't win but I got the best workout of any cat 5. :D
nice work! one thing though... hanging in with the other group might have got you disqualified, you are only allowed to intermigle with people in your race... so you have to watch that... but i guess what the Commisaire doesn't see doesn't hurt'em or you for that matter... but technically you did what you are supposed to do i.e. go right around them.
 
Squint said:
No, you didn't because drafting off of riders from a separate race is usually considered cheating and would subject you to disqualification.
Hey, that's good to know! :D Now I'm glad I didn't do it.
 
KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

Been a long time goal to get through that 5W/kg barrier :D

(btw: FTP based on a 40min effort, turbo, time trial position, calibrated SRM Pro cranks, no taper (2hrs @ 305W night before). Weight is morning weight averaged over a week. Historically for me, power for a 30min maximal turbo effort, tapered, is equivalent to power in a 40kmTT)
 
Quick idea: Wouldn't it be much better if we created a poll where riders could select their power, mass, another other simple options like category of racer, age, and type of riding (mountain or road).

I think it would work much better than constantly compiling rider information page after page.

Of course I think you lose the ability to view who the data belongs to, but I'm interested in the distribution of information anyway.
 
Markster said:
KP....................265W.......48.5kg.... 5.46W/kg(olympic bound female MTBer)
Squint...............332W.......63.5 kg...5.22 W/kg
Markster............352W......69kg......5.10 W/kg
BullGod...............340W (KK)69kg......4.9W/Kg (elite, Benelux)
Piotr..................260W.......54kg......4.81W/kg (M35+, Cat III, Utah)
rmur(Mar.08)....410W......86kg......4.77 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
Midbunchlurker....290w.......61.5kg....4.72W/Kg (35-39, Cape Town, SA)
PSUcycling..........310W.......68kg......4.56w/kg (cat 1,Tx, peak in april, 320w in '07)
rmur(Feb.08).......395W.......87kg......4.54 W/kg (M45-49, PT Pro, from long L4 intervals)
doctorSpoc.........250W.......55kg......4.5W/kg (M1/MB Ontario)
esammuli............292W......65.5kg.....4.46 W/kg (Cat IV, SoCal, soon to be Cat III)
strader...............285W.......66.5kg......4.28W/kg (Cat V, Sport MTB)
bbrauer..............290W.......68kg.......4.26W/kg
Ade Merckx.........300W (KK)72kg.......4.16W/Kg (UK 3rd cat)
waterrockets.......335W.......80.9kg....4.14W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bigbadwoulfe.......298W.......72.0kg....4.13W/kg (Not yet a racer but will be beginner this April)
Miscreant............260W.......63.5kg....4.09W/kg (Cat 5,new to racing)
tonyzackery........340W.......86kg.......3.95W/kg
ctgt...................270W.......70kg......3.94W/kg (M2 Ontario, previously S4, mostly Citizen MTB)
Betulla ...............269W.......70kg......3.85W/kg (Cat V, Ohio, training for the 2008 Etape)
No1kung1..........294W.....77kg.........3.82W/kg (Cat 3, NYC)
Millzebub.............310W.......86kg......3.6W/kg (Cat 5, new racer, 36, oakland, ca)
dkrenik...............250W.......78.9kg....3.17W/kg (4erver4, M45+, Colorado)
RJBTrek..............230W.......86kg.......2.67W/kg (Cat 5, Chicago, 47, new to racing)
Alex Simmons......130W.......95kg.......1.4W/kg (estimate only. M 40+ recovering from injury, Sydney, Aust.)

Been a long time goal to get through that 5W/kg barrier :D

(btw: FTP based on a 40min effort, turbo, time trial position, calibrated SRM Pro cranks, no taper (2hrs @ 305W night before). Weight is morning weight averaged over a week. Historically for me, power for a 30min maximal turbo effort, tapered, is equivalent to power in a 40kmTT)
and who says attention to detail is a bad thing! Great progress Mark-ster:D .
that's what this thread is all about - progress and motivation!
 
strader said:
Hey, that's good to know! :D Now I'm glad I didn't do it.
For the future, if you are going to race more, you should reasonably familiar with the basic rules. You don't have to memorize all of the rules, but know the main ones. If you're in the USA, go here:

http://www.usacycling.org/forms/RdTrkCx_rulebook.pdf

Section 3 is most relevant. Especially important: things like the basic crit rules (when you can work with riders on other laps, free laps for mishaps, etc.), the RR rules (about pace cars, mixing in other fields, etc.) and the TT rules (how to overtake someone without drafting them) come to mind off the top of my head.

BTW - pleading ignorance of the rules is rarely looked upon with pity by my local officials, probably yours too.
 

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