2008 Tour de France Stage 17 - Wednesday, July 23: Embrun - L'Alpe-d'Huez, 210.5 km



missile

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classic1 said:
Yeah, in the last TT the yellow jersey really helped Delgado in 87, Fignon in 89 and Chiapucci in 1990. :rolleyes: Oh wait, who won those years? I'd throw in Periero 06 but I'm still confused as to what the **** exactly happened in the Tour that year.
It does seem to give more incentive than not. You also see it more often on mountain stages than in a TT.
 

b1_

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classic1 said:
Kohl was absolutely shattered at the finish. Evans team was ****... again, except Aerts and Van Summeren,

Well, neither really did much. Was Van Summeren at the base of Alp d'Huez that took the lead but it was so brief he might as well have stayed at home. Cadel needed someone pacing for at least half the climb today becuase of all the slow/fast disruption.

Popovych has been a non event as a team mate. You've got to wonder, if he was No 1. for LA how could he now be so poor. I wonder about all of Lance Armstrong's team mates. Have they all dramatically lost form since US Postal. I can't see Popovych getting any more big pay cheques after this performance.
 

missile

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b1_ said:
Popovych has been a non event as a team mate. You've got to wonder, if he was No 1. for LA how could he now be so poor. I wonder about all of Lance Armstrong's team mates. Have they all dramatically lost form since US Postal. I can't see Popovych getting any more big pay cheques after this performance.
You must not have read many posts on this forum, cause that statement will reopen a BIG OL' can of worms!
 

b1_

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missile said:
Looked up the 2 TTs from last year and Sastre lost over 2:30 in each. One was 54km and the other 55.5km. The final TT is 53km. I don't have a good feeling about Sastre doing well enough unless he does a much better TT than he usually does (by about 1 minute better than last years).

Where did you look it up. Post a link. What was Contador's first TT compared to his second? :D
 

missile

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b1_ said:
Where did you look it up. Post a link. What was Contador's first TT compared to his second? :D
Got the info on the official TdF website for last year.

Contador lost 1:04 on the first TT, but won by 23 seconds on the second.

http://www.letour.fr/2007/TDF/LIVE/us/1900/classement/index.html

You'll need to switch between stages on the site. The first TT was stage 13, the second (this link) was stage 19. Also, make sure you click on the stage standings tab.
 

classic1

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missile said:
It does seem to give more incentive than not. You also see it more often on mountain stages than in a TT.
FFS, of course you have incentive if you are leading the race. Thank you for pointing out the bleeding obvious.. What are you going to do, save yourself to scrape in to the time limit, embarrassing yourself, your sponsor and your family? But extra strength? **** me?. Some of you people need to get your hands off your puds and stop mouthing stupid Liggett inspired moronic cliches. ***********.
 

missile

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classic1 said:
FFS, of course you have incentive if you are leading the race. Thank you for pointing out the bleeding obvious.. What are you going to do, save yourself to scrape in to the time limit, embarrassing yourself, your sponsor and your family? But extra strength? **** me?. Some of you people need to get your hands off your puds and stop mouthing stupid Liggett inspired moronic cliches. ***********.
Kiss my What? :eek: :p
 

classic1

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Jul 29, 2006
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b1_ said:
Well, neither really did much. Was Van Summeren at the base of Alp d'Huez that took the lead but it was so brief he might as well have stayed at home. Cadel needed someone pacing for at least half the climb today becuase of all the slow/fast disruption.
Pretty sure it was Aerts
 

jhuskey

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Oct 6, 2003
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classic1 said:
. Some of you people need to get your hands off your puds. ***********.


And give up a perfectly good pass time that brings quality and enjoyment to my life. Hell no! :D
 

peterlip

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Apr 10, 2005
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missile said:
Got the info on the official TdF website for last year.

Contador lost 1:04 on the first TT, but won by 23 seconds on the second.

http://www.letour.fr/2007/TDF/LIVE/us/1900/classement/index.html

You'll need to switch between stages on the site. The first TT was stage 13, the second (this link) was stage 19. Also, make sure you click on the stage standings tab.
Contador lost 1:27 to Evans on that last time trial, to win the tour by 23 seconds.
 

missile

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classic1 said:
I'm fairly certain the answer isn't 'brain', as finding one may present some difficulty :rolleyes:




:p
You just like to pick fights with people. Anger management classes may be in order.

HE HE HE !!
 

b1_

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missile said:
Contador lost 1:04 on the first TT, but won by 23 seconds on the second.
.

Yeah, Contador was behind Cadel by 1.04 first time trial (54km), then 1.27 on the second time trial (55km). Nothing suspicious there, unless of course he's on the juice all the time. Contador is fairly consistent, no? Seems clean to me.

Edit.
If Sastre is losing 1.16 on a 33km time trial he's well within Cadel's reach on a 50km time trial. I think Cadel has a better chance this year than last year, if you discount accidents etc.
 

Denia

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watched it from start to finish and then read through the posts here. Surely the CSC tactics were obvious on the final climb (although not to the Eurosport commentators) - let Sastre attack and build as big a lead as possible. Once it was clear that Evans wouldn't or couldn't follow him then it would have made no sense whatsover for the Schlecks to attack - by doing so they would have risked dragging Evans along with them and thus closing the gap on Sastre.

Frank Schleck sacrificed his own ambitions today (surely on team orders) hence why he and his brother sat on Evans' wheel when they could have attacked him over and over again. They had to keep their own ambitions in check and force Evans to work as much as possible on his own.

I would guess that Frank S. is less than delighted by this tactic but CSC must have felt that Sastre had a better chance to build a decent lead as Evans would have been fully focussed on Schleck. If it had been Schleck who had attacked at the foot of the climb it is unlikley that he would have won by more than a few seconds overall.

Good team tactics but Schleck will be looking for payback next year.
 

serpico7

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Sep 18, 2006
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Denia said:
Frank Schleck sacrificed his own ambitions today (surely on team orders) hence why he and his brother sat on Evans' wheel when they could have attacked him over and over again. They had to keep their own ambitions in check and force Evans to work as much as possible on his own.
I thought Frank just didn't have the legs today (or yesterday), which is why CSC rode so conservatively yesterday and right up until the final climb today.

What I don't understand is why didn't Andy go with Sastre? He clearly had the legs, and could have helped Sastre open up a bigger gap.
 

Crankyfeet

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Denia said:
watched it from start to finish and then read through the posts here. Surely the CSC tactics were obvious on the final climb (although not to the Eurosport commentators) - let Sastre attack and build as big a lead as possible. Once it was clear that Evans wouldn't or couldn't follow him then it would have made no sense whatsover for the Schlecks to attack - by doing so they would have risked dragging Evans along with them and thus closing the gap on Sastre.

Frank Schleck sacrificed his own ambitions today (surely on team orders) hence why he and his brother sat on Evans' wheel when they could have attacked him over and over again. They had to keep their own ambitions in check and force Evans to work as much as possible on his own.

I would guess that Frank S. is less than delighted by this tactic but CSC must have felt that Sastre had a better chance to build a decent lead as Evans would have been fully focussed on Schleck. If it had been Schleck who had attacked at the foot of the climb it is unlikley that he would have won by more than a few seconds overall.

Good team tactics but Schleck will be looking for payback next year.
I thought the tactics were for the Schleck's to attack, wind all over the road... make Evans follow them... then let off the gas. The stop start and zig-zag nature of their pattern I think helped Sastre who just pedalled constantly at his limit. I think Evans knew what he was doing by waiting to see if Vande Velde, Valverde, Menchov, or someone else was going to chase Sastre while he still had him within his margin of error on the TT advantage. If he led the chase himself... no one else was going to help him. When he realised that the time gap had got to the point where he had to take the mantle... he led the chase.

I'm glad some of you lot aren't his DS. Or would you change your opinion if you wanted him to win the GC?...
wink.gif
 

zlatan

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Jun 11, 2006
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so what was sastres time up fo alp duhez?

the swedish comentator says 40 min are that correct?
 

Denia

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serpico7 said:
I thought Frank just didn't have the legs today (or yesterday), which is why CSC rode so conservatively yesterday and right up until the final climb today.

What I don't understand is why didn't Andy go with Sastre? He clearly had the legs, and could have helped Sastre open up a bigger gap.

By leaving Andy with his brother, I think Evans had to assume that they were his main danger and would attack him to try and keep Frank in yellow. By the time he realised they weren't, Sastre had a two-minute gap. If Andy had gone at the start of the climb with Sastre, then Evans would have been left in no doubt that Frank was being sacrificed and would have tried to follow. That was the CSC gamble and it worked out as well as they could realistically have hoped. As you noted, Frank's legs weren't great and there was no way he was going to win by 2-3 minutes.
 

Denia

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zlatan said:
so what was sastres time up fo alp duhez?

the swedish comentator says 40 min are that correct?
Eurosport said 39 mins, some 4 minutes down on Pantani's record.