2009 Ftp
- Thread starter rmur17
- Start date
I've been doing tempo workouts at 280w, with controlled easy breathing (would be able to speak relatively easy). Yesterday I did 100 min with much left to spare.
Anyone want to take a guess as to my FTP? 320-330?
I'm 83kg btw. Just started doing endurance work 8 days ago. Been riding since Feb, and got 10 years in these legs. (NOT a newb). haha
Anyone want to take a guess as to my FTP? 320-330?
I'm 83kg btw. Just started doing endurance work 8 days ago. Been riding since Feb, and got 10 years in these legs. (NOT a newb). haha
Maybe. Currently set at 275W.Fightin Boba said:
Usually in hard variable effort rides of ~ 1 hour, NP is a little over FTP for me, so I tend to discount by a few percent. I figure a similar rule would apply to a hard variable effort 2+ hr ride.
Have some more data points coming up in a week and a half when I race Oceania championships. It'll be a flat TT & RR this time.
I tend to use such efforts as a sign of changing fitness but don't make any assumptions until maximal efforts are actually produced.velomanct said:
OK, so after some standardized tests, and reading a bunch of the "Training with Power" book, I'm gonna go ahead and change my earlier prediction of 350 to 340.beison said:
PSUcycling..........345W........66.8Kg...5.2W/Kg (Cat1, Texas)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
Markster.............348W........75kg.......4.64W/kg
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
tonyzackery......360W......90kg.....4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Here, allow me to fix this for ya'...beison said:
PSUcycling..........345W........66.8Kg...5.2W/Kg (Cat1, Texas)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
Markster.............348W........75kg.......4.64W/kg
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Fn, this was 90s @ 400w during the course (at the end, actually) of a LT test - total duration 19.5mins. I can easily (well, relatively anyway) complete 400w for 3mins if I was fresh and that was the sole purpose. Nonetheless, I kinda understand what you're getting at with your question - my FTP improvement is being hindered by my relatively low Vo2max power 'ceiling'. I will need to continue increasing power at Vo2max before significant gains will accrue to FTP. Not concerned though as the L5 power will move considerably now that racing season is here, and I'm not looking to peak until mid June at the earliest.function said:
Thought I'd give this power testing malarky a go outdoors for once and see if it really it easier to produce bigger numbers outdoors than it is parked in the garage gazing at a spangley grey epoxy floor....
As per my last test before Christmas I used 5 and 20 minute efforts popped into Monod. Unlike last time both efforts were done on the same night. Hey... I was feeling still a little sore but quite 'frisky' - which was odd given the 7.5 hour sufferfest of climbing in the heat this past weekend. I felt darned good coming home on Sunday too...
5 minute average - 388watts.
http://s469.photobucket.com/albums/rr56/smiffy1999/?action=view¤t=Monod5minute051209.jpg
20 minute average - 358watts.
http://s469.photobucket.com/albums/rr56/smiffy1999/?action=view¤t=Monod20minute051209.jpg
I was kicking myself at the end of the 20 minute one as I still felt pretty good and didn't realise that the 20 minutes was up already (the mind was wandering and thinking of time trialing a long time ago instead of giving it too much greif - hence the lower than expected heart rate) and it was only the wind and the lack of close ratio gears (a 14 would have been nice between the 13 and 15 - darn that cassette that allows me to climb up cliff faces!) that made the legs a little heavy at the end going into that wind. I could have probably picked up a few more watts using normalized power instead of straight average power as there were a few corners en-route but I'm not too fussed about it - I'm actually quite happy as is... and I did manange to pretty much pedal around all of them and only lose a little paint of the pedals!
The 5 minute test was done 15 minutes after the 20. It was a honest effort. 400watts is definitely on the cards next time.
Given my current weight of 180.5 (82kg) - Monod spits out a FTP (CP*Kg) of 357watts and a power/weight of 4.35 watts/kg, which given the way I felt at the end and the extra motivation I'd get if riding competitively I could well believe. I highly doubt I could do that on the trainer though!
The only downside - the blasting crosswinds from the Sacramento "Delta Breeze". Breeze my **** - there's a reason why the trees grow at a 30 degree angle out on those flat lands. I went from 25 to 27 mph in the cross wind down to 21 mph when I turn right straight into the teeth of it... Sheesh.
So the question is now. Which numbers do I train from - the outdoor test numbers of the indoor ones given that there's about a 20 watt difference?
Now I face a few days off the bike soon due to a couple of wisdom teeth that need to be extracted.
PSUcycling..........345W........66.8Kg...5.2W/Kg (Cat1, Texas)
Markster.............358W........72.4kg.....4.94W/kg (from 40km TT)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Swampy............357w.........82kg.......4.35 watts/kg Less Lung - More Powercranks. PT/Monod.
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
function..............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (powertap)
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
As per my last test before Christmas I used 5 and 20 minute efforts popped into Monod. Unlike last time both efforts were done on the same night. Hey... I was feeling still a little sore but quite 'frisky' - which was odd given the 7.5 hour sufferfest of climbing in the heat this past weekend. I felt darned good coming home on Sunday too...
5 minute average - 388watts.
http://s469.photobucket.com/albums/rr56/smiffy1999/?action=view¤t=Monod5minute051209.jpg
20 minute average - 358watts.
http://s469.photobucket.com/albums/rr56/smiffy1999/?action=view¤t=Monod20minute051209.jpg
I was kicking myself at the end of the 20 minute one as I still felt pretty good and didn't realise that the 20 minutes was up already (the mind was wandering and thinking of time trialing a long time ago instead of giving it too much greif - hence the lower than expected heart rate) and it was only the wind and the lack of close ratio gears (a 14 would have been nice between the 13 and 15 - darn that cassette that allows me to climb up cliff faces!) that made the legs a little heavy at the end going into that wind. I could have probably picked up a few more watts using normalized power instead of straight average power as there were a few corners en-route but I'm not too fussed about it - I'm actually quite happy as is... and I did manange to pretty much pedal around all of them and only lose a little paint of the pedals!
The 5 minute test was done 15 minutes after the 20. It was a honest effort. 400watts is definitely on the cards next time.
Given my current weight of 180.5 (82kg) - Monod spits out a FTP (CP*Kg) of 357watts and a power/weight of 4.35 watts/kg, which given the way I felt at the end and the extra motivation I'd get if riding competitively I could well believe. I highly doubt I could do that on the trainer though!
The only downside - the blasting crosswinds from the Sacramento "Delta Breeze". Breeze my **** - there's a reason why the trees grow at a 30 degree angle out on those flat lands. I went from 25 to 27 mph in the cross wind down to 21 mph when I turn right straight into the teeth of it... Sheesh.
So the question is now. Which numbers do I train from - the outdoor test numbers of the indoor ones given that there's about a 20 watt difference?
Now I face a few days off the bike soon due to a couple of wisdom teeth that need to be extracted.
PSUcycling..........345W........66.8Kg...5.2W/Kg (Cat1, Texas)
Markster.............358W........72.4kg.....4.94W/kg (from 40km TT)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Swampy............357w.........82kg.......4.35 watts/kg Less Lung - More Powercranks. PT/Monod.
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
function..............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (powertap)
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Nice work.
On the basis of 20-min at 358W, I can't see CP being 357W.
You sure about that?swampy1970 said:
On the basis of 20-min at 358W, I can't see CP being 357W.
PSUcycling..........345W........66.8Kg...5.2W/Kg (Cat1, Texas)
Markster.............358W........72.4kg.....4.94W/kg (from 40km TT)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Swampy............357w.........82kg.......4.35 watts/kg Less Lung - More Powercranks. PT/Monod.
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
function..............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (powertap)
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Eldrack..............****…….....Fat………Useless.
Getting a power meter soon and I'll be able to give you those low, low numbers for real. Weight is about 78 kilo's thanks to some extra muscle put on during the rugby season.
Markster.............358W........72.4kg.....4.94W/kg (from 40km TT)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Swampy............357w.........82kg.......4.35 watts/kg Less Lung - More Powercranks. PT/Monod.
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
function..............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (powertap)
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Eldrack..............****…….....Fat………Useless.
Getting a power meter soon and I'll be able to give you those low, low numbers for real. Weight is about 78 kilo's thanks to some extra muscle put on during the rugby season.
Thanks!rmur17 said:Aye I get 348W when plugging in 358 x20 and 388x5. That's still some 10W over previous estimates vs. the +20 reported - probably a more manageable delta re training levels etc.
Nice progress though Swampy
So... here's the scoop. If I do what it says in the "instructions" and just "Unless using four tests, leave Minutes and Average Watts for fourth test as zero. " I get a CP of 357.30. During that calculation I have the weight entered into the field for Rows #3 and #4.
If I delete the entire contents of rows #3 and #4 and just leave the Test column inplace, I get CP as 348.
Are you using the ole Eddie Monnier version? Folks back in oh 2002-2003 used to do 3-4 tests for linearity etc. until some smart statistical types showed it was a waste of time and energy: IOW, two GOOD tests >> better than three 'decent' tests (or four).swampy1970 said:
The 348 is correct. I use a basic spreadsheet w/o messing with weight etc. Two entries only and typically I stick to ~5-min and ~20min. History is your friend re the precise relationship between FTP and Cp but I expect you will find they are "highly correlated"
Not wanting to cast further doubt/angst but IIRC you did the 5-min soon after the 20? Folks typically try and separate those tests by several hours or indeed a full day. So it's possible your actual 5MP capacity was a tad under-estimated --- that would cause Cp/FTP to be a tad over-estimated.
Best guess 345W mate. Your next few training sessions should tell you what you can truly handle. FTP is something I want to hit in race mode TBH - not necessarily what I can hit for ~60min a few days per week.
all the best,
Thanks for the info.rmur17 said:Are you using the ole Eddie Monnier version? Folks back in oh 2002-2003 used to do 3-4 tests for linearity etc. until some smart statistical types showed it was a waste of time and energy: IOW, two GOOD tests >> better than three 'decent' tests (or four).
The 348 is correct. I use a basic spreadsheet w/o messing with weight etc. Two entries only and typically I stick to ~5-min and ~20min. History is your friend re the precise relationship between FTP and Cp but I expect you will find they are "highly correlated"
Not wanting to cast further doubt/angst but IIRC you did the 5-min soon after the 20? Folks typically try and separate those tests by several hours or indeed a full day. So it's possible your actual 5MP capacity was a tad under-estimated --- that would cause Cp/FTP to be a tad over-estimated.
Best guess 345W mate. Your next few training sessions should tell you what you can truly handle. FTP is something I want to hit in race mode TBH - not necessarily what I can hit for ~60min a few days per week.
all the best,
emonnier is listed as the author of the spreadsheet that I downloaded from velofit.com
I see what you're saying about the 5 minute test. I doubt that I would have added an extra 12 watts to the average to hit 400... and even then that drops the CP by only 4 watts. On the hills during the past few weeks it seems as though as when I hit 400 watts then I've got about 1 minute before I'm forced to drop the pace a little. 390 drags out the pain for a while - which is why I questioned earlier whether my 20 minute ride was on the money and said that my 5 minute ride was "an honest effort" - that one was pretty much where I expected it to be give or take a few watts.
The 5 minute effort was done around 15 minutes after the 20 minute effort. Surprisingly I felt good about 2 minutes after the first effort and despite knowing that it could be sub-optimal I decided to have a go at the 5 minute test. Given that I'll probably have a few days off the bike after having wisdom teeth yanked and knowing that my form is often erratic (some days it takes a determined effort to hold 275watts on the trainer but those days aren't as common as they were) I had at it.
I've never had a big differential in power between short efforts and my best 10 mile pace - even back in the mid 90's when I was racing. Ironically, during testing on a Kingcycle back then I don't recall breaking 360watts for 10miles. It's pretty much always been about 10% to 12% at the very most between pre-hillclimb season efforts of 5 to 10 minutes and 10 mile pace.
At least the power is back in the ballpark and the weight is slowly going but even that is not going to plan. The doc wants me to lose weight in order to reduce the rather firm amount of abdominal pressure which may be hindering diaphram/lung function but I seem to be losing weight everywhere but there. I'm an Acura Integra engine short of a normal set of lungs - volume 4.2 liters rather than the average 6. I lost a bit of weight and it's up from 4.0
Training sessions... I just found out that the big event that I entered in June just chopped 2.5 hours off the cutoff time to reach the top of the second to last climb at ~170miles and 17,500ft of climbing. Something tells me that I need to drop the intensity slightly and extend the duration by a bit. I can see a few added tempo rides during the week added where there were just rest days before. Anyone got a vaccuum with a liposuction attachment - this boy needs to get rid of his "space hopper" belly! Don't ya just hate it when someone move the goalposts just weeks before an event!
PSUcycling..........345W........66.8Kg...5.2W/Kg (Cat1, Texas)
Markster.............358W........72.4kg.....4.94W/kg (from 40km TT)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
function..............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (powertap)
Swampy............345w.........82kg.......4.21 watts/kg Less Lung - More Powercranks. PT/Monod.
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Eldrack..............Probably better…….....Than he………Thinks.
PSUcycling..........345W........66.8Kg...5.2W/Kg (Cat1, Texas)
Markster.............358W........72.4kg.....4.94W/kg (from 40km TT)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
function..............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (powertap)
Swampy............345w.........82kg.......4.21 watts/kg Less Lung - More Powercranks. PT/Monod.
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
Frost................350..........87Kg......4.02W/kg (finland, M35+ fun rider)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Eldrack..............Probably better…….....Than he………Thinks.
Yes, finally!!! Today I officially entered the 4W/kg club
.
20min@374watts, TT bike with a full aero position. I think it is pretty safe to put ftp at 350.
I wouldn't be surpised if I could kick in quite a few watts more with a road bike (or on the hoods with TT bike) based on last couple of weeks workouts, like 2x10min@405w. Gotta use the 'Neanderdahl'-method and just ride more the TT-bike.
Edit: I checked monod for 20min@374 and 10min@405 (which actually wasn't all out test but just a workout so I guestimate my 10MMP to be at least 410w) and they do not agree at all. It predicts 343w as a critical power, which in my mind is low but somewhat believable, but 467w for 5min and 963w for 1min with 37200 J Anaerobic capacity... Sounds nice but not least believable or otherwise I could order a track bike and the tickets to the next masters track championships first thing monday morning
. So indeed, gotta ride more TT bike.
Markster.............358W........72.4kg.....4.94W/kg (from 40km TT)
Bailsibub.............310 W........64 kg......4.84W/kg (former U.S. Cat 2, now racing in Asia)
Piotr..................266W........56kg......4.75W/kg (M35+A, Utah)
KP.....................240W........51kg.......4.70W/kg (elite female MTB)
R.o.t.Og.............340W........73kg......4.66W/kg (2nd cat roadie & timetrialist)
substructure.......352W........75.8kg.....4.64W/kg
rmur..................405W .......88kg...... 4.60 w/kg
waterrockets......355W........77.5kg.....4.58W/kg (M35+ road, Austin (Cat III))
bubb02..............360w........80kg.......4.5w/kg(cat3, elite mtb)
strader..............300W........67kg.......4.48 w/kg (cat 1 MTB)
Phil S.................307w........69kg.......4.45w/kg (Uk cat 2, taken from best 60mins in a crit on 24.01.09)
Beison...............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (cat 3, Chicago)
function..............340w.........80kg.......4.25w/kg (powertap)
Swampy............345w.........82kg.......4.21 watts/kg Less Lung - More Powercranks. PT/Monod.
iliveonnitro..........282W........67kg.......4.21W/kg (Madison, WI cat 3)
loctite...............344W........82kg........4.19w/kg(former pro MTBer Cat 2 roadie, coach, just back from a LONG injury)
bigwillie013..........295W.......71kg......4.15W/kg (german amateur masters racer)
Crash716............290W.......70Kg.....4.14W/kg (Socal Cat 4 pack fodder)
Frost................350..........87Kg......4.02W/kg (finland, M35+ fun rider)
tonyzackery.......360W.......90kg......4.00w/kg (42, cat.3, crit maniac)
Simone..............229W........60 Kg.... 3.81 W/kg (Simone@Italy, 30, rides for fun, 92% of a 20' MAP test)
ruleof72.............280W.......74kg.......3.78W/kg (44, former bad crit racer, likes to climb)
liversedge..........285w........80.1kg.....3.5W/kg (42, DA SRM, Best 60 from 40kTT)
Fergie...............285W.......84.5.......3.39W/kg (undertrained overworked coach, Commissaire and NZ Jnr Selector)
Alex Simmons......275W........82.0kg.....3.35W/kg (MAP 385W SRM, 10mi TT 287W PT, M45+ track enduro, acquired LBK amputee in 2007)
J\V......................263W.....78.5kg.....3.35W/kg (Cat. 4, racing age 45, in CO; TT'er, not a climber)
stjohnswell.........260W.......77.8kg.....3.34W/kg (37, commuting+sportives and latterly turbo training in order to htfu for la marmotte)
dkrenik..............265W.......81.6kg.....3.25W/kg (47, forever 4 in Colorado)
gimpy_calfee......260W........94kg........2.77w/kg(44yo partial quadriplegic in Ohio)
Eldrack..............Probably better…….....Than he………Thinks.
Yes, finally!!! Today I officially entered the 4W/kg club
20min@374watts, TT bike with a full aero position. I think it is pretty safe to put ftp at 350.
I wouldn't be surpised if I could kick in quite a few watts more with a road bike (or on the hoods with TT bike) based on last couple of weeks workouts, like 2x10min@405w. Gotta use the 'Neanderdahl'-method and just ride more the TT-bike.
Edit: I checked monod for 20min@374 and 10min@405 (which actually wasn't all out test but just a workout so I guestimate my 10MMP to be at least 410w) and they do not agree at all. It predicts 343w as a critical power, which in my mind is low but somewhat believable, but 467w for 5min and 963w for 1min with 37200 J Anaerobic capacity... Sounds nice but not least believable or otherwise I could order a track bike and the tickets to the next masters track championships first thing monday morning
Unfortunately I don't have a "race mode" - well, not this year at least. I also don't have the best area for for training for an 'average power' either - it's either effing hilly for pan flat and winds that'd give the early races in Belgium and Holland with howling winds off the North Sea and damn good run for their money....rmur17 said:Are you using the ole Eddie Monnier version? Folks back in oh 2002-2003 used to do 3-4 tests for linearity etc. until some smart statistical types showed it was a waste of time and energy: IOW, two GOOD tests >> better than three 'decent' tests (or four).
The 348 is correct. I use a basic spreadsheet w/o messing with weight etc. Two entries only and typically I stick to ~5-min and ~20min. History is your friend re the precise relationship between FTP and Cp but I expect you will find they are "highly correlated"
Not wanting to cast further doubt/angst but IIRC you did the 5-min soon after the 20? Folks typically try and separate those tests by several hours or indeed a full day. So it's possible your actual 5MP capacity was a tad under-estimated --- that would cause Cp/FTP to be a tad over-estimated.
Best guess 345W mate. Your next few training sessions should tell you what you can truly handle. FTP is something I want to hit in race mode TBH - not necessarily what I can hit for ~60min a few days per week.
all the best,
As I'm drawing out the training sessions to accomodate more time on the bike, in preperation for a 15 to 18 hour slog through 'them thar hills' I've been getting some good 2.5 to 4 hour rides in at a good pace. Tonights ride was 2.5 hours in the lovely Sacramento 'delta breeze' - with a best 2 hour average of 321watts. Partly to rack up the KJ's for weight loss and partly to test the ol' FTP guestimate. You can tell it's windy when on a flat road 320 watts gets you between 15 and 18mph. At least there was no danger of getting sweat in the glasses! That American Classic CR420 front wheel was an absolute beeyatch to keep straight. It was tough - more mentally than physically and right now I feel pretty good - it'll be interesting to see if that'll be the case in the morning.
http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr56/smiffy1999/May192009PowerTap.jpg
I'd say 345 - 350 watts was about right... Maybe a little more but I'm not too fussed if it is as none of rides in June and July require that type of effort. I'll be racking up similar efforts to tonight in training for the next few weeks to guage whether its sustainable and also to start building a base for next year when I might actually get around to getting a USCF license.
When I test next in August I'll be a little more careful about testing protocol and getting a true best effort.Similar threads
