2009 TDF stage 17 - Bourg-Saint-Maurice Le Grand-Bornand 169.5 km

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by steve, Jul 21, 2009.

  1. Lonnie Utah

    Lonnie Utah Banned

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    Riders are going to flee Astana like rats from a sinking ship...
     


  2. Andrija

    Andrija Member

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    I'm not sure.
    I'm not sure how serious Fernando is about starting a cycling team. But it looked like he's very interested in starting his own team with Contador as a leader. I wonder if he knows what does it take to run his own team. If he knows - then it's game on... And it will be really competitive team, with (supposed) Contador's choice of team-mates.
     
  3. Andrija

    Andrija Member

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    I don't know... They'll always find riders willing to ride for big bucks. Remember, it's supported by state of Kazakhstan.
     
  4. thebluetrain

    thebluetrain New Member

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    He's under contract with Astana through 2010. So until someone bails his ass out, he and Vino are going to be best friends.:D
     
  5. thebluetrain

    thebluetrain New Member

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    did you see how Vino rode when he was with Tmobile and Ullrich?
     
  6. beloki

    beloki New Member

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    yeah like an idiot
     
  7. thebluetrain

    thebluetrain New Member

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  8. thebluetrain

    thebluetrain New Member

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    You think he's going to get the support from Vino he needs to win? dont get me wrong, I like AC, he's very talented, but when people start screaming about how bad he has it with LA and JB, just wait till next year or when he gets on another team. Kinda like Heras did when he left Postal. He can only do so much on talent.
     
  9. Andrija

    Andrija Member

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    I think Fernando can find money... And won't be surprised if Contador helps him in his own interest.
    After all, Vino isn't that bad friend... He won't ride for the Yellow jersey.
    Let's wait and see.
    I'm off.
     
  10. thebluetrain

    thebluetrain New Member

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    Tell that to Ullrich, Kloden, and the Tmobile squad.
     
  11. Ted B

    Ted B New Member

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    And would you really expect him to state otherwise? That would be akin to pasting an "attack me" label to one's own back. His trainer has made it quite clear that this is not the case, and it's amazing enough that he's where he is fitness-wise. He's just lucky to be in the tour, much less a contender.
     
  12. nonns

    nonns New Member

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    I must confess that Vino is one rider who I feel shouldn't be allowed back under any circumstances.

    1) He doped.
    2) He doped in a galactically stupid way.
    3) He got caught.
    4) His return is already starting out by being somewhat unsporting.
    5) He hasn't shown any remorse whatsoever.
    6) His doping method simply thumbed its nose at the entire sport.

    Note: I think he was a talented rider (Though how much of that was down to dope or not is a moot point). To dope in the manner he did at the Tour De France was cretinous in the extreme. That he thought his performance/approach wouldn't raise questions suggests that he is terminal f*ckwit. It also suggests contempt for everything in cycling including the authorities and the great races that he entered.

    I think Contador or the Schlecks would take him apart.
     
  13. Frihed89

    Frihed89 New Member

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    "Selfish glory" to want, and be able to win the Tour, and to do that to try to gain a comfortable margin before the TT, Mount Ventoux and the unexpected puncture (or man-eating bear)? Even Jens Voigt would do that if he were in Contador's position.

    Contador rode superbly, physically and mentally.
     
  14. nonns

    nonns New Member

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    Anybody think that Wiggo might be holding himself a little too much in check? The commentators seem to be making loads of comments about him looking extremely comfortable. Unfortunately you don't get many face shots so you can't really see if he's struggling or not. Could he be higher up the GC with a little more adventurism. Not first place but higher? Just interested on thoughts on this.
     
  15. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Agreed Fri.

    Contador did ride superbly, except that his strength blew his team mate Kloden away as well.

    It pains me to say this - but after all of the recent history, all performances need to be viewed with a sceptical eye in terms of whether or not what we witnessed was clean.
     
  16. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Compare Armstrong to Wiggins on the second last climb.

    Armstrongs hair was matted his head and he was sweating profusely
    (not unaturally given that it was a tough climb).
    Wiggins looked comfortable - he wasn't even sweating.
     
  17. nonns

    nonns New Member

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    Yep that it does. Having seen LA slagged off mercilesly. Having seen how many others have been caught (both big and small).

    Assume they're all juiced. Be surprised if it can be proved definitively that they're not. So basically all they've managed to do is speed the Tour up and taken great risks with their health - way to go.

    Given Kohls comments non positive tests mean nothing (brilliant move on his part as it casts doubt on everyone. Nasty little spoiler that).

    Just sit back and watch and enjoy the competition. So Sastres not winning because sadly his preparation or his talents are not all that Contis or LA's are. Likewise Cadels, Menchovs and so forth.

    Thtas the way I'm now viewing it and I'm enjoying it much more as a result.

    Basically until they can guarantee the accuracy and fairness of the testing and until they can agree between the sports governing bodies a set of punitive sanctions which are so harsh that riders think twice the whole drugs thing is a farce.
     
  18. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Nonns,

    You consistently revert to type.

    The issue doesn't concern the positive results already reported.
    The science and protocols behind the positive results has been appealed/tested etc, and have withstood scrutiny, where positive results have been detected.


    The broader question concerns

    1.how/why, if riders were found to have doped, were they beaten by riders who are allegedly "clean"?
    2. how/why, if the dope tests are working, were riders like David Millar for example, not detected?
    3.how/why, detection rates by the UCI are so low, compared to say detection rates of WADA, for the sport of cycling?
     
  19. nonns

    nonns New Member

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    My apologies. My phraseology was poor. As for returning to type I think not. I was not questioning the accuracy of the positive results that have been found. I believe that the tests when positive are accurate. I question a testing process which does not detect so many riders when they are positive. Is it process? Policy or are the tests incredibly accurate but largely insensitive or is there some other explanation.

    I even accept that are LA samples which might show positives. The fact that LA wasn't then busted is down to some other reasons. My comments about LA are over and done. I accept your evidence. He's a doper, There, does that make you happy?

    This isn't about LA. Its about the fact that the whole thing is mired in stasis, politics, lack of transparency, elections of principle figures who are not great. Rumours, finger pointing about persecution and so forth. Its a joke. Excluding LA or Astana wouldn't help a thing

    Their is no standardisation on application of punishments/sanctions. The whole area is a farce.

    Perhaps the rule should be. If your team has a rider who is found to be doping then the team and all the riders on it will be excluded from professional racing for 3 years (mebbe 5 years) years. All race earnings will be paid back. All palmares of the riders will be stripped from them. The riders will not individually be allowed to ride for other teams for the period of the ban. This means that everyone would be on their guard for dopers. The cost to a riders career of keeping shtum would be such that its simply not worth it.

    Yes you'd have to sacrifice a few riders and teams (perhaps no more than 1 or 2) but it might work.


    I no longer believe any of the riders. Those that have confessed or those that haven't. Di Lucas test was the last straw. I will watch the sport and enjoy the spectacle whilst questioning why I continue to follow a sport full of dopers. Which I beelive is a signature from one of the other forum participants.
     
  20. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    I agree.
     
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