2010 Criterium du Dauphine

[Andrija]

Vogondy took advantage of (GC) battle behind him. Well done.
I was completely wrong about Contador. Maybe he's not riding for overall victory, but it was entertaining. The ease with which he accelerates is unbelievable. It looked like he was playing... Testing his rivals... "How much of this can you take?" Brajkovic managed to stay on his wheel, but it hurt him. After all, Brajkovic is going for the biggest victory of his career, so he should give all he has. Contador can play, his target is 6 weeks far-off. And I can't imagine what kind of form he can reach by then if this was preliminary edition.
Very different from yesterday.
Contadors lieutenants looked good too. I wonder if he'll try something on Alpe d' Huez.

 

[tambourlain]

Vogondy took advantage of (GC) battle behind him. Well done.
I was completely wrong about Contador. Maybe he's not riding for overall victory, but it was entertaining. The ease with which he accelerates is unbelievable. It looked like he was playing... Testing his rivals... "How much of this can you take?" Brajkovic managed to stay on his wheel, but it hurt him. After all, Brajkovic is going for the biggest victory of his career, so he should give all he has. Contador can play, his target is 6 weeks far-off. And I can't imagine what kind of form he can reach by then if this was preliminary edition.
Very different from yesterday.
Contadors lieutenants looked good too. I wonder if he'll try something on Alpe d' Huez.

Bah! Contador gave what he had in the last 3 kilometers. He attacked - it didn't work. He even asked for help. I'm sure he's not at his peak yet. But the idea that he is dogging it is pure bull. Having a Dauphine win on your resume is always worthwhile. The Dauphine is a race for the ITT guys and for the climbers. Winning is carries some prestige. Not as much as the Tour of course. But any rider will take the opportunity to win the race if they think they can.

Menchov also attacked about 3 Km from the top. He got a gap, but he couldn't hold it. He got reabsorbed and then he got dropped. He tried, but he didn't have it. Again, I'm sure that he is not peaked yet. In Menchov's case, he is also not doped yet. He will be for the Tour. Nevertheless, Menchov was trying his best to gain time today.

I do agree that Contador's team looked better than expected today.

Jani has a bit of a problem. With Zuibelda gone and with Paulinho apparently still out of shape he is vulnerable to isolation. Chris can't control the peloton all the way from the bottom of the climb to the top by himself. And he can't cover the attacks in the final 3K with Jani on his wheel when he has already shot his energy in the first 10K of the climb.

 

[tambourlain]

I've had my eye on Brajkovic ever since he took the maillot oro at the Vuelta, nice to see him take a big win against big opposition.

I like Jani. And I remember when he took that jersey in the Vuelta. He did it on a climb. But after that, each of his climbs got worse. Hopefully that won't happen this time. Jani is still thin. But not quite as thin and frail looking as he was at that Vuelta. I think he is finally starting to grow into his body. I hope that means that he can recover better and fight longer. But I wouldn't want to make a prediction.

 

[Andrija]

Bah! Contador gave what he had in the last 3 kilometers. He attacked - it didn't work. He even asked for help. I'm sure he's not at his peak yet. But the idea that he is dogging it is pure bull. Having a Dauphine win on your resume is always worthwhile. The Dauphine is a race for the ITT guys and for the climbers. Winning is carries some prestige. Not as much as the Tour of course. But any rider will take the opportunity to win the race if they think they can.

Menchov also attacked about 3 Km from the top. He got a gap, but he couldn't hold it. He got reabsorbed and then he got dropped. He tried, but he didn't have it. Again, I'm sure that he is not peaked yet. In Menchov's case, he is also not doped yet. He will be for the Tour. Nevertheless, Menchov was trying his best to gain time today.

I do agree that Contador's team looked better than expected today.

Jani has a bit of a problem. With Zuibelda gone and with Paulinho apparently still out of shape he is vulnerable to isolation. Chris can't control the peloton all the way from the bottom of the climb to the top by himself. And he can't cover the attacks in the final 3K with Jani on his wheel when he has already shot his energy in the first 10K of the climb.

No, you got it all wrong.
Contador didn't give all he had. When Menchov attacked he relied on his team mates and they showed he can count on them.
When he left alone he accelerated (it looked very easy), Brajkovic followed (not so easy). Then he accelerated again in the same way, Brajkovic was on his wheel with grimace. If Contador could shake off Brajkovic - he would continue alone, off course, but since he couldn't (not just Brajkovic, others followed too) he decided to give Brajkovic run for his money.
That ask for help, you're mentioning, wasn't ask for help... Whom he would ask for help against who? They were all together. He didn't want to be Brajkovic's (or some one's else) domestique. Just wanted fair share of pace making.
As I wrote, he was testing opposition and checking his own form at the moment. If he wanted more, he would attack earlier and wouldn't wait Menchov's attack to put his team at the front (it was a nice test for his team too).
He was the only rider who could up the pace, he was aware of it and wanted to see what can he do and what others can do against him at the moment... To be sure where he is with his form. No one even tried to shake Contador off (they were willing just to follow), that's how they felt.

Brajkovic gave all he had in last 3 kilometers, not Contador, it was obvious when they crossed the finish line.

 

[tambourlain]

When he left alone he accelerated (it looked very easy), Brajkovic followed (not so easy). Then he accelerated again in the same way, Brajkovic was on his wheel with grimace. If Contador could shake off Brajkovic - he would continue alone, off course, but since he couldn't (not just Brajkovic, others followed too) he decided to give Brajkovic run for his money.

Wrong. Your ability to read faces and levels of effort is all in your imagination. If Contador was going to attack at all, there was no reason to attack "easy". There was nothing to see in testing the others. His only TDF competitor at this race is Menchov. And he was already absorbed before Contador went. Contador attacked with what he had and he just didn't have that much. After he found that out, he stopped trying to push it as hard.

 

[tambourlain]

Tomorrow it's the Alpe-d'Huez. But there will be radical climbing even before it begins. The day should produce large time gaps.

This will be difficult for Jani. RS may burn off Paulinho and Horner going up Col du Glandon (also HC) - especially if there is a significant breakaway that must be kept in check. So there is a chance that Jani will be isolated going up Alpe-d'Huez. Also, Jani has not traditionally been able to put multiple good climbs together back to back. With no help on the final climb, no one will be able to pace Jani if he looses contact with the leaders. The loss of Zuibelda is going to really hurt for this stage. This may be the most important stage of Jani's career. I have my fingers crossed - and I hope he is up to the challenge. But he's going to have to be a little better than he has ever been before. Go Jani!

 

[pennstater]

Strong ride by Navarro today. Tommorrow's stage over the Glandon and finishing atop the Alpe is going to be a great one. If Contador is on good form I expect him to attack the rest of the GC riders, maybe to make a statement to his rivals before the Tour in a few weeks. I'm still not sure if he has zero ambitions and is happy to let other riders take the overall in the Dauphine or he just doesn't have the legs at this point in the season.

Also, was anyone able to find an English live video feed of Today's stage? All the English feeds I found were deactivated because of a violation of the website's terms of service; the links I used were from steephill.tv.

 

[Andrija]

Wrong. Your ability to read faces and levels of effort is all in your imagination. If Contador was going to attack at all, there was no reason to attack "easy". There was nothing to see in testing the others. His only TDF competitor at this race is Menchov. And he was already absorbed before Contador went. Contador attacked with what he had and he just didn't have that much. After he found that out, he stopped trying to push it as hard.

If you've read my entire reply and put it together with this piece you've pulled out, you wouldn't write this misinterpreted and stupid answer.

 

[steve]

Stage 6: Crolles - Alpe-d’Huez 151.5km

Profile
View attachment 12310

Map
View attachment 12311

General classification before stage 6

1 Janez Brajkovic (Slo) Team Radioshack 19:55:04
2 Tejay Van Garderen (USA) Team HTC - Columbia 0:01:15
3 Alberto Contador Velasco (Spa) Astana 0:01:41
4 David Millar (GBr) Garmin - Transitions 0:01:56
5 Nicolas Vogondy (Fra) Bbox Bouygues Telecom 0:02:43
6 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0:02:55
7 Christophe Riblon (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 0:03:05
8 Jurgen Van Den Broeck (Bel) Omega Pharma-Lotto 0:03:06
9 Christian Knees (Ger) Team Milram 0:03:10
10 Reine Taaramae (Est) Cofidis, Le Credit en Ligne 0:03:28

 

[Andrija]

Szmyd for the victory today. Van Den Broeck behind him.
Brajkovic will keep the jersey.

 

[Andrija]

Contador and Brajkovic climbed d' Huez in, about, 43 minutes.

Hats off to Brajkovic. He responded to every attack from Contador. And only once it seemed that Contador managed to distance him, but he got back.
Brajkovic should be in The Shack's TDF team. I don't know why was he reserve option so far. It's been a long time since he's in the team and has shown potential numerous times. The guy who wins Dauphine (in competition with Contador) definitely has to be in the Tour.

 

[tambourlain]

The guy who wins Dauphine (in competition with Contador) definitely has to be in the Tour.

Unless Bruyneel has had a lobotamy he will be. Besides, outside of Chris and Jani and maybe Machado, the entire team looks to be performing at a subpar level this year. If you had told me in January that this is how the team would be doing in June I would have called you nuts.

 

[sopas]

Contador and Brajkovic climbed d' Huez in, about, 43 minutes.

43 minutes is actually slow by today's standards. In the TdF they do it in less than 40 minutes. The record being in Pantani's hands 37'' 36'.

Fausto Coppi did it in 45 minutes back in 1952!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[steve]

43 minutes is actually slow by today's standards. In the TdF they do it in less than 40 minutes. The record being in Pantani's hands 37'' 36'.

Fausto Coppi did it in 45 minutes back in 1952!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It sounds like the racing was better to watch than the usual procession we witness in the Alp's in July.

Here are the Ascent times (wikipedia);

1	37' 35"	Marco Pantani	1997	 Italy
2*	37' 36"	Lance Armstrong	2004	 United States
3	38' 00"	Marco Pantani	1994	 Italy
4	38' 01"	Lance Armstrong	2001	 United States
5	38' 04"	Marco Pantani	1995	 Italy
6	38' 23"	Jan Ullrich	1997	 Germany
7	38' 34"	Floyd Landis**	2006	 United States
8	38' 35"	Andreas Klöden	2006	 Germany
9*	38' 37"	Jan Ullrich	2004	 Germany
10	39' 02"	Richard Virenque	1997	 France
11	39' 06"	Iban Mayo	2003	 Spain
12*	39' 17"	Andreas Klöden	2004	 Germany
13*	39' 21"	Jose Azevedo	2004	 Portugal
14	39' 28"	Miguel Induráin	1995	 Spain
15	39' 28"	Alex Zülle	1995	 Switzerland
16	39' 30"	Bjarne Riis	1995	 Denmark
17	39' 31"	Carlos Sastre	2008	 Spain
18	39' 44"	Gianni Bugno	1991	 Italy
19	39' 45"	Miguel Induráin	1991	 Spain
20	40' 00"	Jan Ullrich	2001	 Germany
21	40' 46"	Fränk Schleck	2006	 Luxembourg
22	40' 51"	Alexander Vinokourov	2003	 Kazakhstan
23	41' 18"	Lance Armstrong	2003	 United States
24	41' 50"	Laurent Fignon	1989	 France
25	41' 50"	Luis Herrera	1986	 Colombia
26	42' 15"	Pedro Delgado	1989	 Spain
27	45' 20"	Gert-Jan Theunisse	1989	 Netherlands
28	45' 22"	Fausto Coppi	1952	 Italy
29	48' 00"	Greg Lemond	1986	 United States
30	48' 00"	Bernard Hinault	1986	 France

 

[Andrija]

43 minutes is actually slow by today's standards. In the TdF they do it in less than 40 minutes. The record being in Pantani's hands 37'' 36'.

Fausto Coppi did it in 45 minutes back in 1952!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought that my remark won't confuse anyone who follows cycling. I was wrong obviously.

To avoid confusion this time, I'll elaborate.
After Giro and slower times on Zoncolan and Corones, which cycling world treated as indicator of change in cycling, I wanted to see if the trend is continuing.
I know that time on d' Huez in Dauphine isn't the best way to make conclusion, since there is still a month to their peak form, but 5 minutes is significant knowing that Contador pushed really hard, I think he was on his limit.
On the other hand, we've seen some great performances in Dauphine in the past... Mayo in 2003 for example, so it isn't such bad indicator after all.
Anyway, we'll have to wait the Tour so we could pull more reliable conclusions.

I've expected comments regarding that trend of change... Thought that time note is obvious.

I don't know why it was interpreted as if I thought it was fast or fascinated with Contador's performance... It's not, by default, every performance from him fantastic. Although Spaniards could think that the rest of the world could think that it is.

 

[sopas]

I thought that my remark won't confuse anyone who follows cycling. I was wrong obviously.

To avoid confusion this time, I'll elaborate.
After Giro and slower times on Zoncolan and Corones, which cycling world treated as indicator of change in cycling, I wanted to see if the trend is continuing.
I know that time on d' Huez in Dauphine isn't the best way to make conclusion, since there is still a month to their peak form, but 5 minutes is significant knowing that Contador pushed really hard, I think he was on his limit.
On the other hand, we've seen some great performances in Dauphine in the past... Mayo in 2003 for example, so it isn't such bad indicator after all.
Anyway, we'll have to wait the Tour so we could pull more reliable conclusions.

I've expected comments regarding that trend of change... Thought that time note is obvious.

I don't know why it was interpreted as if I thought it was fast or fascinated with Contador's performance... It's not, by default, every performance from him fantastic. Although Spaniards could think that the rest of the world could think that it is.

Yes, I knew what you were trying to say. In my opinion, I don't it is a change of trend, clean riders, ect. If you see the stage yesterday you will notice that Contador attacks were only short bursts, yes he tried hard, but if you notice everytime after an attack he slowed down, at one point when the other 2 riders caught up with the two leaders the group was so slow watching each other that I though they were going to fall of the bikes. In the TdF that would not happen.

 

[Chavez]

hard luck aplenty at this dauphine. p. velits out with a broken collarbone. come to think of it, there has been a good deal of carnage all season long. aggressive riding to fight for results?

During the ToC I thought the mayhem would result in some saying the American Pro teams were unprofessional, but the Giro was like a demo derby too.

Crazy.

 

[Chavez]

Here are the Ascent times (wikipedia);

1    37' 35"    Marco Pantani    1997     Italy
2*    37' 36"    Lance Armstrong    2004     United States
3    38' 00"    Marco Pantani    1994     Italy
4    38' 01"    Lance Armstrong    2001     United States
5    38' 04"    Marco Pantani    1995     Italy
6    38' 23"    Jan Ullrich    1997     Germany
7    38' 34"    Floyd Landis**    2006     United States
8    38' 35"    Andreas Klöden    2006     Germany
9*    38' 37"    Jan Ullrich    2004     Germany
10    39' 02"    Richard Virenque    1997     France
11    39' 06"    Iban Mayo    2003     Spain
12*    39' 17"    Andreas Klöden    2004     Germany
13*    39' 21"    Jose Azevedo    2004     Portugal
14    39' 28"    Miguel Induráin    1995     Spain
15    39' 28"    Alex Zülle    1995     Switzerland
16    39' 30"    Bjarne Riis    1995     Denmark
17    39' 31"    Carlos Sastre    2008     Spain
18    39' 44"    Gianni Bugno    1991     Italy
19    39' 45"    Miguel Induráin    1991     Spain
20    40' 00"    Jan Ullrich    2001     Germany
21    40' 46"    Fränk Schleck    2006     Luxembourg
22    40' 51"    Alexander Vinokourov    2003     Kazakhstan
23    41' 18"    Lance Armstrong    2003     United States
24    41' 50"    Laurent Fignon    1989     France
25    41' 50"    Luis Herrera    1986     Colombia
26    42' 15"    Pedro Delgado    1989     Spain
27    45' 20"    Gert-Jan Theunisse    1989     Netherlands
28    45' 22"    Fausto Coppi    1952     Italy
29    48' 00"    Greg Lemond    1986     United States
30    48' 00"    Bernard Hinault    1986     France

That's an....interesting top 15 or so.

 

[steve]

That's an....interesting top 15 or so.

Yep one hell of a lot of dopers

 

[Yonni]

You can't compare times on the Alp like that. Did you not see how strong the headwind was? It would have pushed us mere mortals back down the hill. Time is also relative - who cares how fast you get up it as long as it is fast enough compared to your rivals. OK so TTs are different but in a normal stage it's meaningless.

BTW am I the only one just a little bit suspiscious of how easy Brajkovic made that look against Contador? I can understand it if this was the peak of his season. Contador is still fine tuning his form for the Tour but if Brajkovic also rides the Tour, and does well, I think we have to ask questions.