2012 Campagnolo Brake Squeal

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by tafi, Feb 1, 2012.

  1. tafi

    tafi Member

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    In 10 years of Campagnolo (Daytona, Chorus and Record 10s) use, one thing which has never been an issue is brake squeal..... until I built up a fresh, new frame with 2012 Record 11.

    Stopping power is as good as I have come to expect in recent times but the piercing shreak under medium to hard braking is making my ears ring.

    Thus far I've ridden on a set of Mavic Open Pros and a set of Ambrosio Nemesis (both are aluminium - OP is machined, Nemesis is not). Both lead to squeal with the 2012 brakes but the Nemesis is definitely the worse of the two. I've also used the same wheels on my older bike, which has older skeleton brakes (2007 Chorus), with no issues whatsoever.

    I have almost always set road pads flush to the rim, whether they be Shimano or Campagnolo, Of these two manufacturers, I cannot remember a time when I really needed to toe pads in, but I might have to do it for this bike (if scrubbing up the pads won't fix it).

    The only significant design change from the older 2007 skeletons to the 2012 ones is that the pad and shoe are now a different (quick change) design.

    Has anyone else noticed an increased propensity for the newer brakes to squeal?

    Cheers
     
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  2. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    2012 Chorus on this...no squeal. Dual pivots front and rear.

    [​IMG]

    Clean your rim brake tracks AND pads with mild soap and water. If that don't cure it, toe 'em in!

    One thing I've noticed that will make any brake sing soprano like Mariah Carey is wax. If I even use the same rag I've taken wax off a frame with to detail out the rims...SHRIEK!!!

    I've run Campy for 39 years. I remember toeing in old Record and Super Record from the 1970's-1980's. I also remember hauling those boat anchor Deltas up too many hills!

    My last bike has a single pivot rear (Chorus). It doesn't squeal, but I would be better served dragging a shoe than using that brake to slow down. No wonder Campy brought back dual pivot rears.
     
  3. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Holee double tap!
     
  4. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Nice bike ... very nice ...

    BUT, you may want to 'square' the valve stem on the front wheel before your next ride.
     
  5. danfoz

    danfoz Well-Known Member

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    Quote:
    Originally Posted by alfeng .

    Nice bike ... very nice ...

    BUT, you may want to 'square' the valve stem on the front wheel before your next ride.




    That's a 2.7 Kolibri with a mini-targeting retinal system attached to a helmet mirror. I bet he just forgot to zero it after the ride /img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif
     
  6. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    I couldn't care less about the gun crap, but between aberrations in the image and the perspective coupled with the lens focal length and the photographer's position, it's a pretty safe bet that the actual angle between the stem's axis of symmetry and a line tangent to the rim at the base of the stem is not what it appears in the picture. It's more likely that alfeng has been sniffing JBWeld fumes for too long.
     
  7. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Okay, Newt ...

    You clearly like to wallow in your belief that you know how to throw the BS around in an almost convincing way ...

    BUT, you apparently don't know how to analyze a photograph.

    FYI. When the stem(s) is/(are) clearly NOT pointed toward the(eir respective) axle(s), it is safe to say that the stem(s) is/(are) akimbo.

    • I'll double-down and say that the REAR valve stem needs to be 'squared', too, BTW.
     
  8. tafi

    tafi Member

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    Judging from the frivolous way in which this thread has diverged, I guess there aren't many pepole who've experienced the brake squeal that I have.

    I've taken the pads off and found them to be a bit shiny so a bit of a scrub to take off the surface and I'll see how it goes (when it stops raining).
     
  9. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    I'll "double down" and say it doesn't matter as the stems are fine. Further, I'll "double down" and say you have no clue about image analysis.
     
  10. alienator

    alienator Well-Known Member

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    That's a good idea. You also may want to give the brake track on each a wheel a scrub. Excel Sports and other dealers sell a tool for the rims: Mavic Rim Cleaning Stone.
     
  11. Eichers

    Eichers New Member

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    Hi tafi, if you still have your older skeleton brakes (2007 Chorus), you try those shoes/pads on your 2012 Record 11 calipers. If no noise then that means it is your 2012 Record pads that are the issue ...

    I use Swiss Stop green pro pads and have no issue with them although I have heard of some instances (via an LBS) of Campag pads going hardish.

    Also, if you have used a solvent for cleaning the rims and the solvent gets on the pads, then this could cause your pads to go hardish on the surface which can cause squeal.
     
  12. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Geez Newt ...

    Do you really think that $29.95 + shipping for a pumice impregnated piece of rubber which has a cardboard sleeve emblazoned with a MAVIC logo is worth it?

    Did you also spend money to buy a PET ROCK?

    I'm beginning to see that you think that everyone has deep pockets ...

    While cleaning the brake surface is certainly a good idea, if a person needs a name brand product, a SCOTCH-BRITE pad should work equally well for cleaning the brake surface on a rim for a fraction of the cost of the Mavic Rim Cleaning Stone which you recommended.
     
  13. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Geez Newt,

    You really are clueless ...

    If you think that the angle that the valve stems exit the rims is irrelevant, then why don't you reset your valve stems so that they are akimbo AND make sure they are set that way throughout the 2012 riding season & report back what your experience is-or-isn't.

    For the record, it isn't a cosmetic issue ... but, you can live-and-learn if that's what it takes for you to realize that challenging what I suggest doesn't necessarily make you right; and, more-than-likely affirms that 'I' (and, others) am/(are) actually correct.
     
  14. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    I'll "double down" and say it doesn't matter as the stems are fine.

    Sorry Alf, Alienator is correct. It's the photo that makes it look skewed off perpendicular to the rim. In real life, the dweeb nut is snugged down and it's squared away.

    It's just another throw away race bike. The frame is a hellova bargain and the package deal was insane. God bless Competitive Cyclist! <shameless plug for them. they earned it!>

    They tossed in a Record crakset upgrade worth, what? A buck anna half or so? Some other goodies were thrown into the deal and after going over the primary build and completing the assembly...I can say their builder was spot on with my torque specs.

    The wheels are going to fun to see how fast they fold or if they really can last a couple seasons over Ohio's crappy roads. I'm kind of digging on the bottom-of-the-line Mavics on the decent carbon/Campy mix.

    The frame is about as Eyetalian as...Mu Shu Pork. Wilier (an acronym standing for: Viva Italia, Liberated and Redeemed. Say what???), an Italian company located near Slovenia...contracted with X-Space, a Taiwanese based aerospace outfit, to design and manufacture the tooling and the frameset. In turn, X-space contracted the acual layup, molding and autoclaving to to an outfit on mainland China, the homeland of the Godless Red Chinese.

    So...we have a company in a country with a failed economy hiring a company in a country with a booming economy hiring a bunch of neo-capitalists in a communist country to build something as simple as bicycle frame.

    Who knew? Global e-idicy to get near state-of-the-art framesets for around the $1000 mark. But let's put plenty of www.wilier.it decals on it! Heheh! Drop-shipped direct from Mao Tse Capitalists direct to the good ol' U.S. of A. without ever spending a sunny afternoon doing hot laps on the Vigorelli velodrome.

    Sorry for the hijack.

    We now return you to your regulary scheduled rim/pad cleaning...which I suggested above. Thank you very much!
     
  15. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    For the record, it isn't a cosmetic issue ... but, you can live-and-learn if that's what it takes for you to realize that challenging what I suggest doesn't necessarily make you right; and, more-than-likely affirms that 'I' (and, others) am/(are) actually correct.

    Alf,

    BOTH wheels of my wife's mountain bike have the valve stems that are noticably cockeyed. They've been this way for several years. I'll grant you that she only puts a couple hundred miles on that on over a year's time.

    I'm pretty anal on having a spot-on build job. My wife? As long as the thing moves when she presses on the pedals, she's smiling!

    And thank you for the compliment on the bike. My el cheapo Douglas from colorado Cyclist (was it really over five years ago that I reviewed it here?!?!) served me well. If this Wilier lasts as long and rides as well, they have a winner on their hands.

    Regards,
    Bob
     
  16. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    ACK!?!

    Well, it is what it is ...

    Thanks for the clarification.

    Sweet deal on the Record crankset!
     
  17. 20Paris12

    20Paris12 New Member

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    Super nice bike... About the steerer tube... Chop chop
     
  18. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, 20Paris12! The steerer will be cut by May or June.I need more miles to see if the 10 MM spacer under the stem stays or goes.

    This frame has a head tube that's 10 MM shorter than my last bike. If my old back has any flexibility left in in it, the spacer may go. I usually leave a 5 MM above the stem, so we'll see after some long rides are put on it.

    So far the fit is comfy and the bike feels like an old friend. It was the fastest setup-adjustment to get 'home' on I can remember.

    I transfered measurements and so far the only change has been a 10 MM longer stem and to try several wheelsets. It's shown good stiffness, but I'll reserve final judgement until I get into summer conditioning.
     
  19. tafi

    tafi Member

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    I know it is the pads which are the issue. The calipers haven't changed in the update to 11s. But the pads and shoes have. I've since switched the group to a diffrent frame and it is still an issue. I've always kept rims (and bikes) scrupulously clean. I do know cleaners can cause squeal, but this has only ever happened just after cleaning. The cleaner usually wipes off after a few stops (and the squeal with it). The present issue is unrelated to cleaner as, since I got the 11s I've only used "bedded in" wheels which provide no problems on pads which are older and harder than these.

    I've worked in shops for several years and have been happy with campagnolo, from both a user's and maintainer's point of view. I'm also happy with 11s generally, but scaring the sh*t out of pedestrians and motorists and ruining the high frequency hearing range of myself and all my riding partners is not my aim.

    What has me worried is that the new pad design seems here to stay and the older pads (which had no problems) will cease to be produced.
     
  20. CAMPYBOB

    CAMPYBOB Well-Known Member

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    Weird...I've now got TWO 2012 11-speed Chorus groups running and still no brake squeel unless I sling a bunch of oil onto the Open Pro's or Aksiums. Quiet and powerful brakesets IMO.

    Have you tried more toe-in?

    Other than the 'new' Chorus going to blake anodizing and my rear brakes now being dual-pull, the calipers look to the same as my 2007 brakeset. I can't analyze the pad compounds, of course. Yes, the pad holders/shoes have been redesigned, but I don't think they would cause a squeal in and of themselves.

    Good luck! I hope you get them quieted down.
     
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