23c or 25c tires

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Kpros, Mar 10, 2004.

  1. Kpros

    Kpros Guest

    I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
    3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
    charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike came
    with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs, I was
    wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good choice. I
    don't do any racing, just training rides for the annual
    charity ride.

    Any advice about tire width is appreciated.
     
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  2. daveornee

    daveornee New Member

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    Go for the 25s. They will last a little longer, be a little more comfortable, but weigh a little more. When I say "a little" I am talking in the range of 10%.
    Make sure they will clear your fork, brakes, etc.
    While you are at it, consider Avocet FasGrip Carbon 12 Duro 28s.
    They cost the same; the "little" becomes more significant.
    They clearance issues are also more significant.
    Specifications:
    http://www.avocet.com/tirepages/carbon12_specs.html
     
  3. Jim Flom

    Jim Flom Guest

    "kpros" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
    > 3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
    > charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
    > came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
    > I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
    > choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
    > annual charity ride.

    There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but the
    reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25 to a 23
    is negligible. For your riding, the bit of extra comfort
    you'll be getting with the slightly wider tires is well
    worth it. Go with the 25s.

    Jim
     
  4. kpros wrote:
    > I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
    > 3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
    > charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
    > came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
    > I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
    > choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
    > annual charity ride.

    That would certainly be an improvement. If your bike has
    reasonable tire clearance, I'd suggest going wider, say 28
    mm for spending that much time in the saddle.

    I'd particularly recommend the Panaracer Rolly Poly or
    Avocet FasGrip Duro, see:
    http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/622.html

    Sheldon "Comfort And Durability" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------
    ---------+
    |Pentagon officials believe they have been unable to locate
    | |
    |Bin Laden because he has found an ideal place to hide out.
    | |
    | 1 It is easy to get in if you have the money. |
    | 2 No one will recognize or remember you. |
    | 3 No one will realize that you have disappeared. |
    | 4 No one keeps any records of your comings and goings. |
    | 5 You have no obligations or responsibilities. |
    |Pentagon analysts are still puzzled, as to how Bin Laden |
    | found out about the Texas Air National Guard. |
    +-----------------------------------------------------------
    ---+ Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
    9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find
    parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com
    http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  5. "Jim Flom" wrote:

    > There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but the
    > reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25 to a 23
    > is negligible.

    Given identical construction and pressure, that should be an
    INCREASE in rolling resistance. See
    http://www.schwalbe.com/index.pl?punkt=265 under "Why do
    wide tires roll better than narrow ones?".

    > For your riding, the bit of extra comfort you'll be
    > getting with the slightly wider tires is well worth it. Go
    > with the 25s.

    Especially if they roll better.

    John
     
  6. Lou Holtman

    Lou Holtman Guest

    "kpros" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email protected]...
    > I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
    > 3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
    > charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
    > came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
    > I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
    > choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
    > annual charity ride.
    >
    > Any advice about tire width is appreciated.
    >
    >

    25 mm tyres have only advantages. The most important for
    me is comfort. I like my 25 mm Michelin Pro race tyres
    very much.

    Lou
     
  7. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

  8. Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I'd particularly recommend the Panaracer Rolly Poly or
    > Avocet FasGrip Duro, see:
    > http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/tires/622.html

    i have to ask this .. of anyone in particuliar.

    i've been getting a much higher number of flats with avocet
    fasgrip 25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with the
    vittoria rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets new, same
    terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be sure but not
    currently) but with less miles going to the avocets.

    on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
    avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior from
    road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it seems to
    be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.

    it's driving me nuts. the avocets were fine in minnesota. i
    like 'em. but i'm about to switch out to the rubino pros on
    that bike as well. anyone out here in goathead thorn country
    have any different experiences with avocets? they also seem
    to slice (knick?) like the vittoria open corsas.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  9. Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Jim Flom wrote:
    >
    >> There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but the
    >> reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25 to a
    >> 23 is negligible.
    >
    > Here are a couple of charts:
    >
    > http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rolres.html
    >
    > or:
    >
    > http://bike.terrymorse.com/rolres.html

    my understanding of the hoopla of narrow tires is that it is
    centered around aerodynamics not rolling resistance. you
    want them to be as narrow as the rims they are mounted on.

    i don't think anyone has every disputed that rolling
    resistance of narrower tires is higher.
    --
    david reuteler [email protected]
     
  10. David Reuteler wrote:

    > i've been getting a much higher number of flats with
    > avocet fasgrip 25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with
    > the vittoria rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets
    > new, same terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be
    > sure but not currently) but with less miles going to the
    > avocets.
    >
    > on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
    > avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior
    > from road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it
    > seems to be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.
    >
    > it's driving me nuts. the avocets were fine in minnesota.
    > i like 'em. but i'm about to switch out to the rubino pros
    > on that bike as well. anyone out here in goathead thorn
    > country have any different experiences with avocets? they
    > also seem to slice (knick?) like the vittoria open corsas.

    I doubt this has anything to do with the type of tires, but
    I would expect that for punctures by sharp objects, wider
    tires would be at slightly greater risk due to the larger
    swept area.

    Generally, the reduced risk of "snake bite" pinch flats with
    wider tires more than compensates for this.

    Goat heads are not something we have in New England, and I'm
    not familiar with their life cycle, but if they're like
    other plant seeds, their distribution will vary according to
    the time of year.

    Sheldon "No Goats" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------
    +
    | We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, | or
    | rejoice because thorn bushes have roses. | --Abraham
    | Lincoln |
    +-----------------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts Phone 617-244-
    9772 FAX 617-244-1041 http://harriscyclery.com Hard-to-find
    parts shipped Worldwide http://captainbike.com
    http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  11. Derk

    Derk Guest

    David Reuteler wrote:

    > on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
    > avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior
    > from road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it
    > seems to be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.
    The Michelin Carbon tires got a very good review here. Also
    the Continental GP is a long lasting tire.

    Greets, Derk
     
  12. Lou Holtman

    Lou Holtman Guest

    "David Reuteler" <[email protected]> schreef in bericht
    news:[email protected]...
    > Terry Morse <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Jim Flom wrote:
    > >
    > >> There's a chart online in this regard somewhere, but
    > >> the reduction in rolling resistance by going from a 25
    > >> to a 23 is negligible.
    > >
    > > Here are a couple of charts:
    > >
    > > http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rolres.html
    > >
    > > or:
    > >
    > > http://bike.terrymorse.com/rolres.html
    >
    > my understanding of the hoopla of narrow tires is that it
    > is centered around aerodynamics not rolling resistance.
    > you want them to be as narrow as the rims they are
    > mounted on.

    And behind the narrow aerodynamic tire that fat downtube of
    your oversized Alu frame...

    Lou
     
  13. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    David Reuteler wrote:

    > anyone out here in goathead thorn country have any
    > different experiences with avocets? they also seem to
    > slice (knick?) like the vittoria open corsas.

    I've been using Avocet 700x25s for a couple of years. I
    haven't noticed more or fewer flats with them. Goat heads
    are always an issue when they're in season (late Summer -
    early Fall), but I only managed one goat head flat last
    year. Glass is the real bugaboo, especially during and after
    a rain storm.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
     
  14. Rick Onanian

    Rick Onanian Guest

    On 10 Mar 2004 22:11:29 GMT, David Reuteler <[email protected]>
    wrote:
    >my understanding of the hoopla of narrow tires is that it
    >is centered around aerodynamics not rolling resistance. you
    >want them to be as narrow as the rims they are mounted on.
    >
    >i don't think anyone has every disputed that rolling
    >resistance of narrower tires is higher.

    Narrow tires are also good for higher pressures. For
    sufficiently large values of delta pressure, the narrower of
    a given two tires may have lower rolling resistance.

    In practice, however, and as it applies to this thread;
    120psi goes nicely into many/most 23 and 25 tires, giving
    the 25 lower RR (for the same model tire).

    BTW, I have 700x23 Hutchinson 'Carbon Comp' tires on one of
    my bikes, and 700x25 Serfas 'Seca' on the other, and I
    recently realized that they're almost exactly the same
    width. I was staring at them both from directly behind,
    longing to go for a ride when I couldn't, and noticing how
    narrow the 25s looked. So, I grabbed my vernier caliper, and
    found that they're almost exactly the same. The 25s weren't
    fully inflated, though...maybe they stretch a little with
    125psi in them.

    When I bought them, I was not as educated about tires as I
    am now, and was disappointed not to find something in a 23
    at the store. Now that I wouldn't at all mind a 25, I find
    that they're effectively 23 (or the Hutchinsons are
    effectively 25, I haven't actually measured, just compared).
    --
    Rick Onanian
     
  15. G. Huang

    G. Huang Guest

    Terry Morse wrote:
    > Here are a couple of charts:
    >
    > http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/rolres.html
    >
    > or:
    >
    > http://bike.terrymorse.com/rolres.html
    >
    > --
    > terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/

    Looks to me, there is no correlation at all between the
    rolling resistance and the width of the tire within the
    Specialized+Avocet group at any given pressure (ex. @
    7kgf/cm^2). The 20C's range from the best to worst with a
    few 30C's and 28C's somewhere in the middle. On the other
    hand, the wider 26" group is consistently and significantly
    worse than the narrower 700c group at the same pressure
    (ex. 80psi =
    5.6kgf/cmcm). GH
     
  16. Richard Ney

    Richard Ney Guest

    David Reuteler writes:

    > i've been getting a much higher number of flats with
    > avocet fasgrip
    > 25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with the vittoria
    > rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets new, same
    > terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be sure but
    > not currently) but with less miles going to the
    > avocets.

    I'll bet it's just random fluctuation in broken street
    glass. Chance.

    I ride on Avocet 23s and have periods of flatting like that;
    for me, it's mostly attributable to glass.

    I'll add that these tires are the best I've used. They
    corner great and wear reasonably well.
     
  17. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 10:50:20 -0800, "kpros" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >I'm looking for some help with tire choice. I ride about
    >3000 miles per year and participate in an annual 8 day
    >charity ride for the Arthritis Foundation. My road bike
    >came with 700x23 tires. Since I weight in at about 195lbs,
    >I was wondering if going to 700x25 tires would be a good
    >choice. I don't do any racing, just training rides for the
    >annual charity ride.
    >
    >Any advice about tire width is appreciated.
    >

    Is there something about the 23s that you don't like? Hard
    to recommend moving to a 25 if you have no real reason.

    But since this is Usenet, I won't l et such details stop
    me.... For charity rides and non-racing riding, try 25s. The
    little extra air cushion is very nice. Although I like 23s
    for weekend rides, I do have to adjust to the extra
    vibration compared to my commuter's 25s.
     
  18. Carl Fogel

    Carl Fogel Guest

    Sheldon Brown <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > David Reuteler wrote:
    >
    > > i've been getting a much higher number of flats with
    > > avocet fasgrip 25/28mm (wired kevlar version) than with
    > > the vittoria rubino pro 23mm on my commuter. both sets
    > > new, same terrain (idaho, goathead thorn country to be
    > > sure but not currently) but with less miles going to the
    > > avocets.
    > >
    > > on the vittorias my last flat was early december. on the
    > > avocets i had 2 this past weekend alone. both exterior
    > > from road debris. for a given ride (30 to 60 miles) it
    > > seems to be a 50/50 shot whether i get a flat.
    > >
    > > it's driving me nuts. the avocets were fine in
    > > minnesota. i like 'em. but i'm about to switch out to
    > > the rubino pros on that bike as well. anyone out here in
    > > goathead thorn country have any different experiences
    > > with avocets? they also seem to slice (knick?) like the
    > > vittoria open corsas.
    >
    > I doubt this has anything to do with the type of tires,
    > but I would expect that for punctures by sharp objects,
    > wider tires would be at slightly greater risk due to the
    > larger swept area.
    >
    > Generally, the reduced risk of "snake bite" pinch flats
    > with wider tires more than compensates for this.
    >
    > Goat heads are not something we have in New England, and
    > I'm not familiar with their life cycle, but if they're
    > like other plant seeds, their distribution will vary
    > according to the time of year.
    >
    > Sheldon "No Goats" Brown +-----------------------------------------------------
    > +
    > | We can complain because rose bushes have thorns, | or
    > | rejoice because thorn bushes have roses. | --Abraham
    > | Lincoln |
    > +-----------------------------------------------------+

    Dear Sheldon,

    August turns out to be the cruellest[1] month.

    From 1996 to 2003, I recorded 169 flats on my daily ride in
    Colorado, the vast majority from goat head stickers.




    There does seem to be a seasonal rise in flats, roughly
    around the summer vacation, and a blesséd break around the
    beginning of winter (Sheldon should appreciate the phrase
    from Lowell's[2] "For the Union Dead."

    If anything refutes astrology, it is the decline in
    goatheads during Capricorn (December 22nd to January 10th).
    (I always thought that Madame Sosostris was a charlatan.)

    Only 169 flats in 8 years strikes me as suspiciously low,
    but the explanation is that from 1996 through 1999 I used
    thorn-resistant tubes and tire-liners. Only when I
    foolishly abandoned them in 2000 did I begin to average 35
    flats instead of 7 per year (so far, 8 in 2004 not included
    in the table.

    Carl Fogel

    [1] Eliot's -ll- may be cruel to some gentil parfait [3]
    readers, but then Chaucer is no kinder with his
    "Aprille."

    [2] The double-l's just keep a-comin'. Nice new aquarium.
    Nice old bas-relief.

    [3] Even more obscure joke--look up the full couplet, which
    hardly applies to the anonymous parfait gentil knyght.
    Eliot makes folk like me think of footnotes to footnotes
    that hardly explain things.
     
  19. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Rick Onanian wrote:

    > ... BTW, I have 700x23 Hutchinson 'Carbon Comp' tires on
    > one of my bikes, and 700x25 Serfas 'Seca' on the other,
    > and I recently realized that they're almost exactly the
    > same width. I was staring at them both from directly
    > behind, longing to go for a ride when I couldn't, and
    > noticing how narrow the 25s looked. So, I grabbed my
    > vernier caliper, and found that they're almost exactly the
    > same. The 25s weren't fully inflated, though...maybe they
    > stretch a little with 125psi in them....

    Are the rims for each bike the same width at the bead seat?
    The width of a particular tire will vary to a certain extent
    depending on the width of the rim it is mounted on.

    Tom Sherman - Quad Cities (Illinois Side)
     
  20. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    Carl Fogel wrote:

    > Only 169 flats in 8 years strikes me as suspiciously low,
    > but the explanation is that from 1996 through 1999 I used
    > thorn-resistant tubes and tire-liners. Only when I
    > foolishly abandoned them in 2000 did I begin to average 35
    > flats instead of 7 per year (so far, 8 in 2004 not
    > included in the table.

    I don't think I've gotten more than a dozen flats in a whole
    year. What's causing all your flats? I'm just curious...

    Also, what kind of thornproof tubes are you using? The ones
    with the goo inside?

    Matt O.
     
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