29er suspension fork, disk brake, and dropouts?

[A Muzi]

>> dvt wrote:
>>> I'm interested in a 29er (622 mm rim) mountain bike with disk brakes
>>> and a suspension fork. But I'd like to avoid the downward facing
>>> dropouts that most of the forks seem to have. Do you know of a fork
>>> that would meet these specs?

> A Muzi wrote:
>> As a matter of fact, I spoke with Answer/Manitou, Marzocchi and Rock
>> Shox about that only this morning.
>> None offer 700C shock forks for 2006. Answer is linked in some way to
>> some oem-only forks. No simple answer to your quest. We suggested our
>> customer use a handmade fork and a wider tire.

dvt wrote:
> Thanks for the answers, Andy and K. Cowboy. To Phil and jb, no thanks.
> Andy, I think I misunderstand your note. I'm pretty sure that Rock Shox
> is making one or two 700c suspension forks this year, but both have
> downward facing dropouts. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean to say
> that Rock Shox is discontinuing the 700c forks such as the Reba?

Yep, I called to BUY a fork and was told none available and
none planned for 700C.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971

 

[G.T.]

jim beam wrote:
> Chalo wrote:
>
>> jim beam wrote:
>>
>>> dvt wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'm interested in a 29er (622 mm rim) mountain bike with disk brakes
>>>> and
>>>> a suspension fork. But I'd like to avoid the downward facing dropouts
>>>> that most of the forks seem to have. Do you know of a fork that would
>>>> meet these specs?
>>>>
>>>
>>> fear of the statistically irrelevant is irrational. if you have any
>>> worries at all about standard dropouts, use a closed cam skewer and a
>>> serrated face axle. and don't file off the lawyer lips.
>>
>>
>>
>> You know, even if you are unconcerned with wheel pullout, it is
>> annoying when you have chronic disc rub issues because hard application
>> of the brakes causes the axle to shift in the fork dropouts. I've had
>> this problem with my 8" front disc brake on two different forks, and
>> while it can be coped with, it seems like a needless thing to have to
>> tolerate considering the solution is so simple.
>> Chalo
>>
> so how come that neither i nor about 20 disk mtb riding buddies who i
> know well enough for them to let me mess with their bikes, have ever
> seen or heard of this problem?

Because you and your cronies ride the mellow fireroads of Marin.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[G.T.]

A Muzi wrote:
> >> dvt wrote:
>
>>>> I'm interested in a 29er (622 mm rim) mountain bike with disk brakes
>>>> and a suspension fork. But I'd like to avoid the downward facing
>>>> dropouts that most of the forks seem to have. Do you know of a fork
>>>> that would meet these specs?
>
>
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>
>>> As a matter of fact, I spoke with Answer/Manitou, Marzocchi and Rock
>>> Shox about that only this morning.
>>> None offer 700C shock forks for 2006. Answer is linked in some way to
>>> some oem-only forks. No simple answer to your quest. We suggested
>>> our customer use a handmade fork and a wider tire.
>
>
> dvt wrote:
>
>> Thanks for the answers, Andy and K. Cowboy. To Phil and jb, no thanks.
>> Andy, I think I misunderstand your note. I'm pretty sure that Rock
>> Shox is making one or two 700c suspension forks this year, but both
>> have downward facing dropouts. Is that what you meant? Or did you mean
>> to say that Rock Shox is discontinuing the 700c forks such as the Reba?
>
>
> Yep, I called to BUY a fork and was told none available and none planned
> for 700C.
>

Ask for a 29er. Guys seem to not know that they're the same as 700c.
The Reba is definitely available as a 29er disc only fork.

Greg

--
"All my time I spent in heaven
Revelries of dance and wine
Waking to the sound of laughter
Up I'd rise and kiss the sky" - The Mekons

 

[Tim McNamara]

"G.T." <[email protected]> writes:

> A Muzi wrote:
>> >> dvt wrote:
>>
>>>>> I'm interested in a 29er (622 mm rim) mountain bike with disk
>>>>> brakes and a suspension fork. But I'd like to avoid the downward
>>>>> facing dropouts that most of the forks seem to have. Do you know
>>>>> of a fork that would meet these specs?
>>
>>> A Muzi wrote:
>>>
>>>> As a matter of fact, I spoke with Answer/Manitou, Marzocchi and
>>>> Rock Shox about that only this morning. None offer 700C shock
>>>> forks for 2006. Answer is linked in some way to some oem-only
>>>> forks. No simple answer to your quest. We suggested our customer
>>>> use a handmade fork and a wider tire.
>>
>> dvt wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for the answers, Andy and K. Cowboy. To Phil and jb, no
>>> thanks. Andy, I think I misunderstand your note. I'm pretty sure
>>> that Rock Shox is making one or two 700c suspension forks this
>>> year, but both have downward facing dropouts. Is that what you
>>> meant? Or did you mean to say that Rock Shox is discontinuing the
>>> 700c forks such as the Reba?
>>
>> Yep, I called to BUY a fork and was told none available and none
>> planned for 700C.
>>
> Ask for a 29er. Guys seem to not know that they're the same as
> 700c. The Reba is definitely available as a 29er disc only fork.

Not only that, but touring it as a "new" thing overlooks the fact that
Bianchi had several 700C (a.k.a 29") MTB models 15 years ago and no one
wanted to buy them. They were touted on exactly the same basis on which
the 29er is touted today. Somehow a 29" wheel is more acceptable in
MTB circles than a 700C wheel, even though they are are the same
doggone size rim... Human nature is a funny thing.

 

[Chalo]

Tim McNamara wrote:
>
> Not only that, but touring it as a "new" thing overlooks the fact that
> Bianchi had several 700C (a.k.a 29") MTB models 15 years ago and no one
> wanted to buy them. They were touted on exactly the same basis on which
> the 29er is touted today. Somehow a 29" wheel is more acceptable in
> MTB circles than a 700C wheel, even though they are are the same
> doggone size rim... Human nature is a funny thing.

Back when Bianchi (and Bruce Gordon) first made 700c mountain bikes,
the biggest knobby you could get for them was a 700x41 (unless you
wanted to pay a small fortune to get some slightly fatter but grossly
heavier Finnish Army tires). The difference this time is that the WTB
Nanoraptor 700x52 appeared before the current crop of twenty-niners. I
have a feeling that Bianchi believed tire manufacturers would follow
them into the market, and it didn't happen.

Without fat tires to go on its big wheels, a 700c MTB is pretty
uninspiring, and the results were predictable.

Chalo

 

[G.T.]

"Tim McNamara" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "G.T." <[email protected]> writes:
>
> > A Muzi wrote:
> >> >> dvt wrote:
> >>
> >>>>> I'm interested in a 29er (622 mm rim) mountain bike with disk
> >>>>> brakes and a suspension fork. But I'd like to avoid the downward
> >>>>> facing dropouts that most of the forks seem to have. Do you know
> >>>>> of a fork that would meet these specs?
> >>
> >>> A Muzi wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> As a matter of fact, I spoke with Answer/Manitou, Marzocchi and
> >>>> Rock Shox about that only this morning. None offer 700C shock
> >>>> forks for 2006. Answer is linked in some way to some oem-only
> >>>> forks. No simple answer to your quest. We suggested our customer
> >>>> use a handmade fork and a wider tire.
> >>
> >> dvt wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks for the answers, Andy and K. Cowboy. To Phil and jb, no
> >>> thanks. Andy, I think I misunderstand your note. I'm pretty sure
> >>> that Rock Shox is making one or two 700c suspension forks this
> >>> year, but both have downward facing dropouts. Is that what you
> >>> meant? Or did you mean to say that Rock Shox is discontinuing the
> >>> 700c forks such as the Reba?
> >>
> >> Yep, I called to BUY a fork and was told none available and none
> >> planned for 700C.
> >>
> > Ask for a 29er. Guys seem to not know that they're the same as
> > 700c. The Reba is definitely available as a 29er disc only fork.
>
> Not only that, but touring it as a "new" thing overlooks the fact that
> Bianchi had several 700C (a.k.a 29") MTB models 15 years ago and no one
> wanted to buy them.

So did Diamondback. And when I worked at Answer we made 700c, oops, 29er,
forks for them. I guess 29er sounds bigger (than 26) and we all know bigger
is better.

Greg

 

[Phil, Squid-in-Training]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> "G.T." <[email protected]> writes:
>
>> A Muzi wrote:
>>> >> dvt wrote:
>>>
>>>>>> I'm interested in a 29er (622 mm rim) mountain bike with disk
>>>>>> brakes and a suspension fork. But I'd like to avoid the downward
>>>>>> facing dropouts that most of the forks seem to have. Do you know
>>>>>> of a fork that would meet these specs?
>>>
>>>> A Muzi wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> As a matter of fact, I spoke with Answer/Manitou, Marzocchi and
>>>>> Rock Shox about that only this morning. None offer 700C shock
>>>>> forks for 2006. Answer is linked in some way to some oem-only
>>>>> forks. No simple answer to your quest. We suggested our customer
>>>>> use a handmade fork and a wider tire.
>>>
>>> dvt wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks for the answers, Andy and K. Cowboy. To Phil and jb, no
>>>> thanks. Andy, I think I misunderstand your note. I'm pretty sure
>>>> that Rock Shox is making one or two 700c suspension forks this
>>>> year, but both have downward facing dropouts. Is that what you
>>>> meant? Or did you mean to say that Rock Shox is discontinuing the
>>>> 700c forks such as the Reba?
>>>
>>> Yep, I called to BUY a fork and was told none available and none
>>> planned for 700C.
>>>
>> Ask for a 29er. Guys seem to not know that they're the same as
>> 700c. The Reba is definitely available as a 29er disc only fork.
>
> Not only that, but touring it as a "new" thing overlooks the fact that
> Bianchi had several 700C (a.k.a 29") MTB models 15 years ago and no
> one wanted to buy them. They were touted on exactly the same basis
> on which the 29er is touted today. Somehow a 29" wheel is more
> acceptable in MTB circles than a 700C wheel, even though they are are
> the same doggone size rim... Human nature is a funny thing.

Did they have Campy MTB/flat bar components?
--
Phil, Squid-in-Training

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

"jim beam" wrote:
> Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> > ...
> > Kentucky bourbon man "jim beam" claims front mounted calipers will not
> > work due to the poor fatigue properties of cast metals in tension,
> > though this would be easily resolved by using a forged lower fork leg
>
> duuude! have you any idea how much that would cost for a magnesium
> alloy??? [and you know that magnesium can only be worked at elevated
> temperatures, right?]

Dude! Why not use aluminium alloy instead (at the cost of only a few
grams) - or are you recycling old VW air cooled engine cases?

> > and/or increasing the material thickness to reduce stress (at the cost
> > of only a few grams of weight).
>
> but why? rear mounting works fine. /and/ it's not just the fork but
> the caliper has to be considered also. suddenly, cost/weight has risen
> alarmingly and with no benefit.

Dude! I to would be alarmed at a weight increase that would take
weighing on a balance to detect.

Dude! You do realize that the reaction force from the disc brake is
loading the dropouts in TENSION? Wouldn't this lead to fatigue failure
on a cast fork?

--
Tom Sherman

 

[Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman]

Tim McNamara wrote:
> "G.T." <[email protected]> writes:
> ...
> > Ask for a 29er. Guys seem to not know that they're the same as
> > 700c. The Reba is definitely available as a 29er disc only fork.
>
> Not only that, but touring it as a "new" thing overlooks the fact that
> Bianchi had several 700C (a.k.a 29") MTB models 15 years ago and no one
> wanted to buy them. They were touted on exactly the same basis on which
> the 29er is touted today. Somehow a 29" wheel is more acceptable in
> MTB circles than a 700C wheel, even though they are are the same
> doggone size rim... Human nature is a funny thing.

I would not buy either a 29-inch or 700C wheel ATB. However, I would
consider an ATB with ISO 622-mm wheels.

--
Tom Sherman

 

[jim beam]

Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
> "jim beam" wrote:
>
>>Johnny Sunset aka Tom Sherman wrote:
>>
>>>...
>>>Kentucky bourbon man "jim beam" claims front mounted calipers will not
>>>work due to the poor fatigue properties of cast metals in tension,
>>>though this would be easily resolved by using a forged lower fork leg
>>
>>duuude! have you any idea how much that would cost for a magnesium
>>alloy??? [and you know that magnesium can only be worked at elevated
>>temperatures, right?]
>
>
> Dude! Why not use aluminium alloy instead (at the cost of only a few
> grams)

er, suspension dynamics? otherwise, why bother with a 4lb suspension
fork when a 2lb solid for will do?

> - or are you recycling old VW air cooled engine cases?

other than showing that you've heard of an application where a magnesium
/aluminum alloy is used, what's that got to do with grossly excessive
costs of forging???

>
>
>>>and/or increasing the material thickness to reduce stress (at the cost
>>>of only a few grams of weight).
>>
>>but why? rear mounting works fine. /and/ it's not just the fork but
>>the caliper has to be considered also. suddenly, cost/weight has risen
>>alarmingly and with no benefit.
>
>
> Dude! I to would be alarmed at a weight increase that would take
> weighing on a balance to detect.

see above.

>
> Dude! You do realize that the reaction force from the disc brake is
> loading the dropouts in TENSION?

indeed it is! and at what point does reality depart from the fact that
the dropouts are stouter than any other single section of the fork???
come on tom, you're supposed to be an civil engineer aren't you? why
are you descending to asinine comments like this?

> Wouldn't this lead to fatigue failure
> on a cast fork?

see above. some elements of the design are non-negotiable - the
necessity for a fork crown being one example, dropouts another. if
features can't be avoided, you design accordingly. if design can
optimize one desirable feature [mass] while minimizing another, risk
[fatigue], you damned well go ahead and do it!!! and rear mounted
calipers are such an example.

 

[A Muzi]

>> >> dvt wrote:
>>>>> I'm interested in a 29er (622 mm rim) mountain bike with disk
>>>>> brakes and a suspension fork. But I'd like to avoid the downward
>>>>> facing dropouts that most of the forks seem to have. Do you know of
>>>>> a fork that would meet these specs?

>>> A Muzi wrote:
>>>> As a matter of fact, I spoke with Answer/Manitou, Marzocchi and Rock
>>>> Shox about that only this morning.
>>>> None offer 700C shock forks for 2006. Answer is linked in some way
>>>> to some oem-only forks. No simple answer to your quest. We
>>>> suggested our customer use a handmade fork and a wider tire.

>> dvt wrote:
>>> Thanks for the answers, Andy and K. Cowboy. To Phil and jb, no thanks.
>>> Andy, I think I misunderstand your note. I'm pretty sure that Rock
>>> Shox is making one or two 700c suspension forks this year, but both
>>> have downward facing dropouts. Is that what you meant? Or did you
>>> mean to say that Rock Shox is discontinuing the 700c forks such as
>>> the Reba?

> A Muzi wrote:
>> Yep, I called to BUY a fork and was told none available and none
>> planned for 700C.

G.T. wrote:
> Ask for a 29er. Guys seem to not know that they're the same as 700c.
> The Reba is definitely available as a 29er disc only fork.

Thank you .
Marc Muller at Waterford suggested the same thing and a
second wave of calls shows you are right.

To the fork industry "700x52" has no meaning.(!)

Marzocchi and Rock, yes, Answer no.

--
Andrew Muzi
www.yellowjersey.org
Open every day since 1 April, 1971