2x20s

Discussion in 'Cycling Training' started by ptooey, Aug 25, 2003.

  1. ptooey

    ptooey New Member

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    Anyone do 2x20min intervals at LT power during their base season? I read that it takes more than the usual month or 6 weeks of longer LT intervals to really increase power at LT. My season (elite MTBer) ends this weekend and starts again in early April. Assuming I take 4-6 weeks of just fun riding (Sept, 1/2 of Oct):
    1) when should I start doing 2x20s?
    2) how many times per week?
    thanks.
     
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  2. ptooey

    ptooey New Member

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    bump... for ric
     
  3. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    Opps, hadn't seen this! You (anyone) can always email me for a quick response, or to point something out!

    Just to clarify, the 2 x 20-mins i recommend are not done at LT power, as LT is quite a low intensity (the effort that can be sustained for ~ 1 to 4 hrs). LT is generally defined as a 1mmol/L increase in lactate over baseline measures, and is ~ 20 % less power than can be sustained as a 1-hr TT. I refer to these 20-min (etc) efforts as being done at TT power.

    I see no reason why these intervals can't be done for a majority of the year, i tend to start them after a few easy weeks at the end of the season (as you suggest).

    How frequently they're completed, and the rate of increase in power on e.g., a weekly, bi-weekly or whatever period is going to be in part dependent upon your goals, when you start racing, how important these races are, what other training you do, etc.

    Do you not have a coach? A coach would be able to help and plan these aspects. please feel free to contact me about coaching.

    Cheers
    Ric
     
  4. ptooey

    ptooey New Member

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    Thanks Ric,
    Yes, I do have a coach but typically only from Dec til Aug. I was doing some research on my own to discuss with him when he gets back from the master's worlds. I usually don't do any formal training in Sept-Oct-Nov but thought I might benefit from doing 2x20s once or twice a week in Oct and Nov.

    My coach used the 4mmol/L point to define my LT - which, according to the plot is quite a bit > than 1mmol/L over baseline, so I thought I would start there and keep increasing 5-10W per week until I could not complete 2x20min.

    I noticed another reply of yours in regards to shorter intervals over the winter. My coach seems to use a periodicized yearly plan starting w/ longer intervals and moving towards shorter intervals in the late spring. As an elite MTB racer, I feel that power at AT is key, and I would be better served by the 2x20's. Do you agree?
    Thanks again.
     
  5. TTer

    TTer New Member

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    Ric, how has your power increased since you started the intervals? Has it plateaued, or does it continue to increase every few weeks? I seemed to hit a ceiling very quickly, but I'd be interested to know your thoughts from a longer term test.
     
  6. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    ptooey wrote, i responded with >>

    Thanks Ric,

    My coach used the 4mmol/L point to define my LT - which, according to the plot is quite a bit > than 1mmol/L over baseline, so I thought I would start there and keep increasing 5-10W per week until I could not complete 2x20min.

    >>the 4 mmol/L is known as OBLA, and is a fairly arbitrary figure. The LT figure is too low to do these intervals, as this is the power you might be able to maintain for several hours during an endurance session

    >>Your best option would be to do a TT of ~ 20-mins to 1 hour and use a very high % of this power to set your interval power (e.g., if you do a 20-min TT you might want to start at ~ 90 - 95% of the average for the 2 x 20-mins, for the 1hr you might use 95 - 100% for the 2 x 20-mins)

    I noticed another reply of yours in regards to shorter intervals over the winter. My coach seems to use a periodicized yearly plan starting w/ longer intervals and moving towards shorter intervals in the late spring. As an elite MTB racer, I feel that power at AT is key, and I would be better served by the 2x20's. Do you agree?
    Thanks again.

    >>normally, i use shorter more intense intervals closer to the main goals, but i'd still use these type of intervals (e.g., 4-mins) sparingly throughout the rest of the year.

    >>Power at LT, TT power, and power at VO2 max are the 'core' ingredients for all endurance cyclists (and other athletes). Peak (sprint) power is also important too, but not as much as these core points.

    Ric
     
  7. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    It continued to increase, until my training focus changed tack, and i moved on to other areas. it will likely, plateau at some point depending on how much training you can do.

    Once it starts to plateau, you can change the way you attempt to increase TTpower, by e.g., tempo riding, or VO2 max intervals. also, depending on your event focus (although i assume that you soley do TTs) you might need to alter your training for achieve different goals.

    Ric
     
  8. redstorm

    redstorm New Member

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    Hi ricstern,

    I was wondering about your opinion about the following.

    Considering that one has time to train between 10-12 hours every week, what is the expected level that a cyclist can reach. I know this will probably vary depending on individuals, but for example reaching the 40km in under one hour mark most probably doable? But where would the breacking point be in your opinion ? Is there another milestone that would be difficult to overcome without an increase in training time ?

    Just Curious!

    alp!
     
  9. ric_stern/RST

    ric_stern/RST New Member

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    It'll depend very much on the person concerned and their 'trainability'. i've coached quite a few elite riders on 10 - 12 hrs a week.

    ric
     
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