3am thoughts



Joyce wrote:

> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
> the states have set their laws to be the same. Kids can
> receive their learners permits at age 15, can apply and
> test for official license at 16. With the permit, they can
> only drive with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in
> the front seat with them. In order to receive their
> license, they have to submit a written and signed form
> listing 25 hours of practice driving time (An Illinois
> law). This doesn't sound like much, until you're the
> parent that has to make sure they accomplish this task. It
> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> license for 6 months, the 1 passenger restriction is
> lifted ... but there is still the *seat belt law* -
> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
> seatbelt regardless as to being in the front or rear seat
> (when riding with a driver under the age of
> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
> I'm very surprised the police can even keep track of
> them all.

Here you can apply for your provisional licence on your 17th
birthday, and pass your test that day too if you like! I've
had several friends do that: Kids of farmers who've been
driving the farm stuff for years, since they were literally
too small to reach all the pedals!

For us for cars it doesn't matter where you sit you have to
wear a seatbelt unless you have a job or medical exemption.
I don't think car seats are mandatory, but they are advised.
The wording is 'suitably restrained', I think. This can mean
a car seat for tiddlers, a booster seat for larger kids, or
one of those lap things that hold the seat belt into the
right non-strangling position.

When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4 or
40 pounds ... now it's

> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
> not have fit into a car seat at 8 years old - too heavy,
> too tall, whatever. Some people have made complaints that
> they would now have to go purchase larger vehicles, as 3
> or more car seats will not fit easily into the compacts
> that they own - yet they can't afford the more costly vans
> or suv's that would hold more seats. I do understand the
> logic behind the law, along with what they are trying to
> accomplish. I don't think it was very well thought out.
> Probably put into effect by men who never once had to deal
> with transporting multiple children. <g>

Hah! Beaurocracy gorn mad, innit.

>
>
> Joyce

--

Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
 
What is with CA laws? Strict on the driving issues, yet I
heard on the news tonite that they want to make an
ammendment (or something) that will allow voting in state
elections at the age of 14. 14 yr. old votes count as a
quarter of a vote ... 16 yrs. old count as half a vote. Is
it just me, or is this ridiculous? I know my kids didn't
have a clue or care about the political issues, tax
referendums or whatever were being voted for.

Joyce

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:39:44 -0800, "Deb in Northern
California"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary by
>state. Also the teen provisional license in California is
>NO passenger for the 1st 6 months under the age of 25. So
>the laws do vary by state, but only slightly.
>
>Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
>permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break
>(the week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6
>months before she can become licensed. She will be 16 and a
>few months when she gets her license then.
>
>Debbie
>
>"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
><[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Joyce wrote:
>> >
>> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
>> >> don't know the
>exact wording
>> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
>> >> requested a letter from
>the state)
>> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
>> >> vehicle that was
>under the age
>> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
>> >> took that to
>mean that they
>> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
>> >> other passengers.
>This law
>> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
>> >> more than 6
>months when the
>> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
>> >> moments, as I would
>not let her
>> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
>> >> from the state.
>> >
>> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
>> >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a
>> >full licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
>> >car will legally hold.
>>
>> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
>> the states have
>set
>> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
>> learners permits at age
>15, can
>> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
>> permit, they can only
>drive
>> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
>> seat with them.
>In order
>> to receive their license, they have to submit a written
>> and signed form
>listing 25
>> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
>> doesn't sound like
>much,
>> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
>> accomplish this task.
>It
>> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
>> license for 6
>months, the
>> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
>> the *seat belt
>law* -
>> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
>> their seatbelt
>regardless as
>> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
>> driver under the
>age of
>> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
>> I'm very
>surprised
>> the police can even keep track of them all.
>>
>> >
>> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
>> >> far unsuccessful,
>is
>> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
>> >> This has led to a
>lot of
>> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
>> >> staying open later ...
>school
>> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
>> >> available at those
>hours.
>> >>
>> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
>> >> is meeting with a
>lot of
>> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
>> >> age of 8. That
>pretty much
>> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
>> >> going home with
>friends,
>> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
>> >
>> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
>> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
>> >12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
>> >taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
>> >Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
>>
>> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
>> or 40 pounds ...
>now it's
>> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
>> would not have fit
>into a
>> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
>> Some people have
>made
>> complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
>> vehicles, as 3
>or more
>> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
>> own - yet they
>can't
>> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
>> seats. I do
>understand
>> the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
>> to accomplish.
>I don't
>> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
>> effect by men who
>never
>> once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>
>>
>> Joyce
>
 
Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
your driver's license until you are 17 years of age and
there are restrictions. My best friend and her older
brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their license
at 16. They ended up moving to New Jersey and their little
brother was really irritated that they could drive before
him. In his particular case, they should have waited longer-
but I digress.

"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Joyce wrote:
> >
> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
> >> don't know the
exact wording
> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> >> requested a letter from
the state)
> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
> >> vehicle that was
under the age
> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
> >> took that to
mean that they
> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
> >> other passengers.
This law
> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
> >> more than 6
months when the
> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> >> moments, as I would
not let her
> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
> >> from the state.
> >
> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
> >you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
> >legally hold.
>
> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
> the states have
set
> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
> permits at age
15, can
> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> permit, they can only
drive
> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
> seat with them.
In order
> to receive their license, they have to submit a written
> and signed form
listing 25
> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
> doesn't sound like
much,
> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> accomplish this task.
It
> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> license for 6
months, the
> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
> the *seat belt
law* -
> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
> seatbelt
regardless as
> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
> driver under the
age of
> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
> I'm very
surprised
> the police can even keep track of them all.
>
> >
> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
> >> far unsuccessful,
is
> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
> >> This has led to a
lot of
> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> >> staying open later ...
school
> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> >> available at those
hours.
> >>
> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
> >> meeting with a
lot of
> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
> >> age of 8. That
pretty much
> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
> >> going home with
friends,
> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> >
> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
> >12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
> >taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
> >Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
>
> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
> or 40 pounds ...
now it's
> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
> not have fit
into a
> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
> Some people have
made
> complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
> vehicles, as 3
or more
> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
> own - yet they
can't
> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
> seats. I do
understand
> the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
> to accomplish.
I don't
> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
> effect by men who
never
> once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>
>
> Joyce
 
California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary by
state. Also the teen provisional license in California is NO
passenger for the 1st 6 months under the age of 25. So the
laws do vary by state, but only slightly.

Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break (the
week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6 months
before she can become licensed. She will be 16 and a few
months when she gets her license then.

Debbie

"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Joyce wrote:
> >
> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
> >> don't know the
exact wording
> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> >> requested a letter from
the state)
> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
> >> vehicle that was
under the age
> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
> >> took that to
mean that they
> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
> >> other passengers.
This law
> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
> >> more than 6
months when the
> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> >> moments, as I would
not let her
> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
> >> from the state.
> >
> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
> >you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
> >legally hold.
>
> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
> the states have
set
> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
> permits at age
15, can
> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> permit, they can only
drive
> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
> seat with them.
In order
> to receive their license, they have to submit a written
> and signed form
listing 25
> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
> doesn't sound like
much,
> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> accomplish this task.
It
> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> license for 6
months, the
> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
> the *seat belt
law* -
> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
> seatbelt
regardless as
> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
> driver under the
age of
> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
> I'm very
surprised
> the police can even keep track of them all.
>
> >
> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
> >> far unsuccessful,
is
> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
> >> This has led to a
lot of
> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> >> staying open later ...
school
> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> >> available at those
hours.
> >>
> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
> >> meeting with a
lot of
> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
> >> age of 8. That
pretty much
> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
> >> going home with
friends,
> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> >
> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
> >12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
> >taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
> >Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
>
> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
> or 40 pounds ...
now it's
> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
> not have fit
into a
> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
> Some people have
made
> complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
> vehicles, as 3
or more
> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
> own - yet they
can't
> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
> seats. I do
understand
> the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
> to accomplish.
I don't
> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
> effect by men who
never
> once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>
>
> Joyce
 
"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Joyce wrote:
> >
> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
> >> don't know the
exact wording
> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> >> requested a letter from
the state)
> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
> >> vehicle that was
under the age
> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
> >> took that to
mean that they
> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
> >> other passengers.
This law
> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
> >> more than 6
months when the
> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> >> moments, as I would
not let her
> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
> >> from the state.
> >
> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
> >you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
> >legally hold.
>
> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
> the states have
set
> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
> permits at age
15, can
> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> permit, they can only
drive
> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
> seat with them.
In order
> to receive their license, they have to submit a written
> and signed form
listing 25
> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
> doesn't sound like
much,
> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> accomplish this task.
It
> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> license for 6
months, the
> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
> the *seat belt
law* -
> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
> seatbelt
regardless as
> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
> driver under the
age of
> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
> I'm very
surprised
> the police can even keep track of them all.

I'm not sure if it is a federal law. NJ's min age for the
learners permit is 16 and until the age of 18 you have
various restrictions. At 18 you get your full license. Our
seatbelt law applies to everyone in the car regardless of
age. These laws seem to vary from state to state.

> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
> >> far unsuccessful,
is
> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
> >> This has led to a
lot of
> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> >> staying open later ...
school
> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> >> available at those
hours.

I'd love to see a 10 or 11pm curfew for kids under 18. The
only exception would be if they are coming home from work.
This would certainly cut down on their party time.

> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
> >> meeting with a
lot of
> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
> >> age of 8. That
pretty much
> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
> >> going home with
friends,
> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> >
> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
> >12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
> >taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
> >Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
>
> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
> or 40 pounds ...
now it's
> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
> not have fit
into a
> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
> Some people have
made
> complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
> vehicles, as 3
or more
> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
> own - yet they
can't
> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
> seats. I do
understand
> the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
> to accomplish.
I don't
> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
> effect by men who
never
> once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>
>

NJ law is kids under 8 years old or under 85 pounds have to
be in a car seat. We've had that law for about 5 years now.
 
It seems to me that my niece, who lives in Missouri had 40 hours with an
adult before she could test. DH let her drive while she stayed with us here
in Illinois. Man am I glad we are child free, Lee
Joyce <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
<[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >Joyce wrote:
> >
> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
> >> don't know the
exact wording
> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> >> requested a letter from
the state)
> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
> >> vehicle that was
under the age
> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
> >> took that to
mean that they
> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
> >> other passengers.
This law
> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
> >> more than 6
months when the
> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> >> moments, as I would
not let her
> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
> >> from the state.
> >
> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the UK,
> >you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car will
> >legally hold.
>
> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
> the states have
set
> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their learners
> permits at age
15, can
> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> permit, they can only
drive
> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
> seat with them.
In order
> to receive their license, they have to submit a written
> and signed form
listing 25
> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
> doesn't sound like
much,
> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> accomplish this task.
It
> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> license for 6
months, the
> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
> the *seat belt
law* -
> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear their
> seatbelt
regardless as
> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
> driver under the
age of
> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
> I'm very
surprised
> the police can even keep track of them all.
>
> >
> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
> >> far unsuccessful,
is
> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
> >> This has led to a
lot of
> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> >> staying open later ...
school
> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> >> available at those
hours.
> >>
> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which is
> >> meeting with a
lot of
> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
> >> age of 8. That
pretty much
> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
> >> going home with
friends,
> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> >
> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
> >12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
> >taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
> >Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
>
> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
> or 40 pounds ...
now it's
> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who would
> not have fit
into a
> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
> Some people have
made
> complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
> vehicles, as 3
or more
> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
> own - yet they
can't
> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
> seats. I do
understand
> the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
> to accomplish.
I don't
> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
> effect by men who
never
> once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>
>
> Joyce
 
I agree, I know even though I was allowed to vote at 18, I
did not register to vote until I was 22 or 23. Have voted
ever since too. I don't think a child of 14-16 are old
enough to make an informed decision and that is what voting
should be, an informed decision on an issue so that you have
a say so in it. I know a bunch of school boards, that would
like for the kids to vote so they can get the school bond
issues to go through. Funny thing is, the politician that
was proposing that amendment said we had record low voter
turn out and that was why he wanted to get more people into
the polls. I think if people were more informed they would
be more likely to go to the polls and vote.

Debbie

"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What is with CA laws? Strict on the driving issues, yet I
> heard on the
news
> tonite that they want to make an ammendment (or something)
> that will allow
voting
> in state elections at the age of 14. 14 yr. old votes
> count as a quarter
of a
> vote ... 16 yrs. old count as half a vote. Is it just me,
> or is this
ridiculous?
> I know my kids didn't have a clue or care about the
> political issues, tax referendums or whatever were being
> voted for.
>
> Joyce
>
> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:39:44 -0800, "Deb in Northern
> California"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary
> >by state. Also
the
> >teen provisional license in California is NO passenger
> >for the 1st 6
months
> >under the age of 25. So the laws do vary by state, but
> >only slightly.
> >
> >Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
> >permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break
> >(the week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6
> >months before she can become licensed. She will be
16
> >and a few months when she gets her license then.
> >
> >Debbie
> >
> >"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:[email protected]...
> >> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
> ><[email protected]>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> >Joyce wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
> >> >> don't know the
> >exact wording
> >> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> >> >> requested a letter
from
> >the state)
> >> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
> >> >> vehicle that was
> >under the age
> >> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
> >> >> I took that to
> >mean that they
> >> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
> >> >> no other
passengers.
> >This law
> >> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
> >> >> for more than 6
> >months when the
> >> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> >> >> moments, as I
would
> >not let her
> >> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
> >> >> from the state.
> >> >
> >> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
> >> >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have
> >> >a full licence, you can carry as many passengers as
> >> >the car will legally hold.
> >>
> >> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
> >> all the states
have
> >set
> >> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
> >> learners permits at
age
> >15, can
> >> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> >> permit, they can
only
> >drive
> >> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
> >> seat with them.
> >In order
> >> to receive their license, they have to submit a written
> >> and signed form
> >listing 25
> >> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
> >> doesn't sound
like
> >much,
> >> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> >> accomplish this
task.
> >It
> >> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> >> license for 6
> >months, the
> >> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
> >> still the *seat belt
> >law* -
> >> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
> >> their seatbelt
> >regardless as
> >> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
> >> driver under the
> >age of
> >> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
> >> law. I'm very
> >surprised
> >> the police can even keep track of them all.
> >>
> >> >
> >> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
> >> >> so far
unsuccessful,
> >is
> >> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
> >> >> This has led to
a
> >lot of
> >> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> >> >> staying open later
...
> >school
> >> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> >> >> available at those
> >hours.
> >> >>
> >> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
> >> >> is meeting with
a
> >lot of
> >> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
> >> >> the age of 8.
That
> >pretty much
> >> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
> >> >> school, going home
with
> >friends,
> >> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> >> >
> >> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
> >> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age
> >> >of 12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's
> >> >already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in
> >> >the past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as
> >> >well as tall.
> >>
> >> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
> >> 4 or 40 pounds
...
> >now it's
> >> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
> >> would not have
fit
> >into a
> >> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
> >> whatever. Some people
have
> >made
> >> complaints that they would now have to go purchase
> >> larger vehicles, as
3
> >or more
> >> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
> >> they own - yet
they
> >can't
> >> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
> >> more seats. I do
> >understand
> >> the logic behind the law, along with what they are
> >> trying to
accomplish.
> >I don't
> >> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
> >> effect by men
who
> >never
> >> once had to deal with transporting multiple
> >> children. <g>
> >>
> >> Joyce
> >>
 
In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you are
only allowed to drive with an instructor or a parent until
17. I like the new restrictions that they put on kids here.
Too many kids get little or no driving experience but have
their drivers license. My step daughter had her 6 hours of
instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the test on
tuesday. I'm amazed that she passed. It took her another 6
months before she could navigate a parking lot correctly.
The schools stopped giving driving class due to the high
cost of insurance. The local driving schools pump out kids
so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid has
learned to drive or not. They got their money. Too many high
school kids have been killed because they did not have
proper driving instruction or meaning full 6 hours of
experience before getting their license. As a parent I am
grateful for the recent law changes.

Laura (from NJ)

"skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
[email protected]...
> Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
> York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
> your driver's license until you are
17
> years of age and there are restrictions. My best friend
> and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get
> their license at 16. They
ended
> up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
> really irritated that they could drive before him. In his
> particular case, they should have waited longer-but I
> digress.
>
>
>
>
> "Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
> <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Joyce wrote:
> > >
> > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
> > >> don't know the
> exact wording
> > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> > >> requested a letter
from
> the state)
> > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
> > >> vehicle that was
> under the age
> > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
> > >> took that to
> mean that they
> > >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
> > >> other
passengers.
> This law
> > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
> > >> more than 6
> months when the
> > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> > >> moments, as I would
> not let her
> > >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
> > >> from the state.
> > >
> > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
> > >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have
> > >a full licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
> > >car will legally hold.
> >
> > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
> > all the states
have
> set
> > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
> > learners permits at
age
> 15, can
> > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> > permit, they can
only
> drive
> > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
> > seat with them.
> In order
> > to receive their license, they have to submit a written
> > and signed form
> listing 25
> > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
> > doesn't sound
like
> much,
> > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> > accomplish this task.
> It
> > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> > license for 6
> months, the
> > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
> > the *seat belt
> law* -
> > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
> > their seatbelt
> regardless as
> > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
> > driver under the
> age of
> > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
> > law. I'm very
> surprised
> > the police can even keep track of them all.
> >
> > >
> > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
> > >> far
unsuccessful,
> is
> > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
> > >> This has led to
a
> lot of
> > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> > >> staying open later
...
> school
> > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> > >> available at those
> hours.
> > >>
> > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
> > >> is meeting with
a
> lot of
> > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
> > >> the age of 8.
That
> pretty much
> > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
> > >> school, going home
with
> friends,
> > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> > >
> > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
> > >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
> > >12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
> > >taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the
> > >past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as
> > >tall.
> >
> > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
> > or 40 pounds
...
> now it's
> > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
> > would not have fit
> into a
> > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
> > Some people
have
> made
> > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
> > larger vehicles, as 3
> or more
> > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
> > they own - yet they
> can't
> > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
> > more seats. I do
> understand
> > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
> > trying to accomplish.
> I don't
> > think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
> > effect by men who
> never
> > once had to deal with transporting multiple
> > children. <g>
> >
> > Joyce
>
 
skiur wrote:

> Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
> York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
> your driver's license until you are 17 years of age and
> there are restrictions. My best friend and her older
> brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their license
> at 16. They ended up moving to New Jersey and their little
> brother was really irritated that they could drive before
> him. In his particular case, they should have waited longer-
> but I digress.

New York I can place, but when it gets to Idaho or Utah,
I get lost!

I'm a bit wooly on our driving laws as I'm a non driver.
Tried learning (was quite good at it, aparantly!) but hated
it. After I had to stop lessons due to falling down the
stairs, I gave up.
--

Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
 
Where in NJ?

Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area

"Laura" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
> are only allowed
to
> drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like the
> new restrictions that they put on kids here. Too many kids
> get little or no driving experience but have their drivers
> license. My step daughter had her 6
hours
> of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the test
> on tuesday. I'm amazed that she passed. It took her
> another 6 months before she could navigate a parking lot
> correctly. The schools stopped giving driving class due to
> the high cost of insurance. The local driving schools pump
> out kids so fast just to make money. They don't care if
> the kid has learned to
drive
> or not. They got their money. Too many high school kids
> have been killed because they did not have proper driving
> instruction or meaning full 6
hours
> of experience before getting their license. As a parent I
> am grateful for the recent law changes.
>
> Laura (from NJ)
>
> "skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
> [email protected]...
> > Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from
> > New York City
incase
> > you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
> > license until you
are
> 17
> > years of age and there are restrictions. My best friend
> > and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and could
> > get their license at 16. They
> ended
> > up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
> > really irritated
that
> > they could drive before him. In his particular case,
> > they should have waited longer-but I digress.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > "Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
> > <[email protected]>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >Joyce wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
> > > >> don't know the
> > exact wording
> > > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> > > >> requested a letter
> from
> > the state)
> > > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
> > > >> vehicle that
was
> > under the age
> > > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
> > > >> I took that to
> > mean that they
> > > >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
> > > >> no other
> passengers.
> > This law
> > > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
> > > >> for more than 6
> > months when the
> > > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> > > >> moments, as I
would
> > not let her
> > > >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
> > > >> from the state.
> > > >
> > > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
> > > >UK, you have
to
> > > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> > > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the car
> > > >will legally hold.
> > >
> > > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
> > > all the states
> have
> > set
> > > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
> > > learners permits at
> age
> > 15, can
> > > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> > > permit, they can
> only
> > drive
> > > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
> > > front seat with
them.
> > In order
> > > to receive their license, they have to submit a
> > > written and signed
form
> > listing 25
> > > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
> > > doesn't sound
> like
> > much,
> > > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> > > accomplish this
task.
> > It
> > > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
> > > license for 6
> > months, the
> > > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
> > > still the *seat
belt
> > law* -
> > > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
> > > their seatbelt
> > regardless as
> > > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
> > > driver under
the
> > age of
> > > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
> > > law. I'm very
> > surprised
> > > the police can even keep track of them all.
> > >
> > > >
> > > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
> > > >> so far
> unsuccessful,
> > is
> > > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
> > > >> This has led
to
> a
> > lot of
> > > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> > > >> staying open later
> ...
> > school
> > > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> > > >> available at those
> > hours.
> > > >>
> > > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
> > > >> which is meeting
with
> a
> > lot of
> > > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
> > > >> the age of 8.
> That
> > pretty much
> > > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
> > > >> school, going home
> with
> > friends,
> > > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> > > >
> > > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
> > > >James that
was
> > > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
> > > >grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already taller
> > > >than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past. Not
> > > >skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
> > >
> > > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
> > > 4 or 40 pounds
> ...
> > now it's
> > > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
> > > would not have
fit
> > into a
> > > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
> > > whatever. Some people
> have
> > made
> > > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
> > > larger vehicles, as
3
> > or more
> > > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
> > > they own - yet
they
> > can't
> > > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
> > > more seats. I do
> > understand
> > > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
> > > trying to
accomplish.
> > I don't
> > > think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
> > > effect by men
who
> > never
> > > once had to deal with transporting multiple
> > > children. <g>
> > >
> > > Joyce
> > >
> >
 
Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
Princeton.

"skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
[email protected]...
> Where in NJ?
>
> Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area
>
> "Laura" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
> > are only
allowed
> to
> > drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
> > the new
restrictions
> > that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little or
> > no driving experience but have their drivers license. My
> > step daughter had her 6
> hours
> > of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
> > test on tuesday.
I'm
> > amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
> > before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
> > schools stopped giving driving
class
> > due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
> > schools pump out
kids
> > so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
> > has learned to
> drive
> > or not. They got their money. Too many high school kids
> > have been killed because they did not have proper
> > driving instruction or meaning full 6
> hours
> > of experience before getting their license. As a parent
> > I am grateful
for
> > the recent law changes.
> >
> > Laura (from NJ)
> >
> > "skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
> > [email protected]...
> > > Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from
> > > New York City
> incase
> > > you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
> > > license until you
> are
> > 17
> > > years of age and there are restrictions. My best
> > > friend and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and
> > > could get their license at 16. They
> > ended
> > > up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
> > > really irritated
> that
> > > they could drive before him. In his particular case,
> > > they should have waited longer-but I digress.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
> > > <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Joyce wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings.
> > > > >> I don't know
the
> > > exact wording
> > > > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> > > > >> requested a letter
> > from
> > > the state)
> > > > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
> > > > >> the vehicle that
> was
> > > under the age
> > > > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
> > > > >> ... I took that
to
> > > mean that they
> > > > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
> > > > >> but no other
> > passengers.
> > > This law
> > > > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
> > > > >> for more than 6
> > > months when the
> > > > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> > > > >> moments, as I
> would
> > > not let her
> > > > >> carry any passengers until I received
> > > > >> clarification from the
state.
> > > > >
> > > > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
> > > > >the UK, you have
> to
> > > > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> > > > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
> > > > >car will legally hold.
> > > >
> > > > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
> > > > or all the states
> > have
> > > set
> > > > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
> > > > learners permits
at
> > age
> > > 15, can
> > > > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> > > > permit, they
can
> > only
> > > drive
> > > > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
> > > > front seat with
> them.
> > > In order
> > > > to receive their license, they have to submit a
> > > > written and signed
> form
> > > listing 25
> > > > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
> > > > This doesn't
sound
> > like
> > > much,
> > > > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> > > > accomplish this
> task.
> > > It
> > > > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
> > > > holding license for
6
> > > months, the
> > > > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
> > > > still the *seat
> belt
> > > law* -
> > > > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
> > > > their seatbelt
> > > regardless as
> > > > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with
> > > > a driver under
> the
> > > age of
> > > > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
> > > > law. I'm
very
> > > surprised
> > > > the police can even keep track of them all.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
> > > > >> but so far
> > unsuccessful,
> > > is
> > > > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
> > > > >> week. This has led
> to
> > a
> > > lot of
> > > > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> > > > >> staying open
later
> > ...
> > > school
> > > > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> > > > >> available at
those
> > > hours.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
> > > > >> which is meeting
> with
> > a
> > > lot of
> > > > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
> > > > >> until the age of 8.
> > That
> > > pretty much
> > > > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
> > > > >> school, going home
> > with
> > > friends,
> > > > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> > > > >
> > > > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
> > > > >for James that
> was
> > > > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
> > > > >grew out of it last year, aged
8!
> > > > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
> > > > >taught in the past. Not
skinny,
> > > > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
> > > >
> > > > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
> > > > was 4 or 40
pounds
> > ...
> > > now it's
> > > > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
> > > > would not have
> fit
> > > into a
> > > > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
> > > > whatever. Some
people
> > have
> > > made
> > > > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
> > > > larger vehicles,
as
> 3
> > > or more
> > > > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
> > > > they own - yet
> they
> > > can't
> > > > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
> > > > more seats. I
do
> > > understand
> > > > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
> > > > trying to
> accomplish.
> > > I don't
> > > > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
> > > > into effect by men
> who
> > > never
> > > > once had to deal with transporting multiple
> > > > children. <g>
> > > >
> > > > Joyce
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
 
Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
Princeton.

"skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
[email protected]...
> Where in NJ?
>
> Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area
>
> "Laura" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
> news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
> > are only
allowed
> to
> > drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
> > the new
restrictions
> > that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little or
> > no driving experience but have their drivers license. My
> > step daughter had her 6
> hours
> > of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
> > test on tuesday.
I'm
> > amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
> > before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
> > schools stopped giving driving
class
> > due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
> > schools pump out
kids
> > so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
> > has learned to
> drive
> > or not. They got their money. Too many high school kids
> > have been killed because they did not have proper
> > driving instruction or meaning full 6
> hours
> > of experience before getting their license. As a parent
> > I am grateful
for
> > the recent law changes.
> >
> > Laura (from NJ)
> >
> > "skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
> > [email protected]...
> > > Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from
> > > New York City
> incase
> > > you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
> > > license until you
> are
> > 17
> > > years of age and there are restrictions. My best
> > > friend and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and
> > > could get their license at 16. They
> > ended
> > > up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
> > > really irritated
> that
> > > they could drive before him. In his particular case,
> > > they should have waited longer-but I digress.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > "Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
> > > <[email protected]>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > >Joyce wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings.
> > > > >> I don't know
the
> > > exact wording
> > > > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> > > > >> requested a letter
> > from
> > > the state)
> > > > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
> > > > >> the vehicle that
> was
> > > under the age
> > > > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
> > > > >> ... I took that
to
> > > mean that they
> > > > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
> > > > >> but no other
> > passengers.
> > > This law
> > > > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
> > > > >> for more than 6
> > > months when the
> > > > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
> > > > >> moments, as I
> would
> > > not let her
> > > > >> carry any passengers until I received
> > > > >> clarification from the
state.
> > > > >
> > > > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
> > > > >the UK, you have
> to
> > > > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> > > > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
> > > > >car will legally hold.
> > > >
> > > > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
> > > > or all the states
> > have
> > > set
> > > > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
> > > > learners permits
at
> > age
> > > 15, can
> > > > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
> > > > permit, they
can
> > only
> > > drive
> > > > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
> > > > front seat with
> them.
> > > In order
> > > > to receive their license, they have to submit a
> > > > written and signed
> form
> > > listing 25
> > > > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
> > > > This doesn't
sound
> > like
> > > much,
> > > > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> > > > accomplish this
> task.
> > > It
> > > > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
> > > > holding license for
6
> > > months, the
> > > > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
> > > > still the *seat
> belt
> > > law* -
> > > > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
> > > > their seatbelt
> > > regardless as
> > > > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with
> > > > a driver under
> the
> > > age of
> > > > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
> > > > law. I'm
very
> > > surprised
> > > > the police can even keep track of them all.
> > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
> > > > >> but so far
> > unsuccessful,
> > > is
> > > > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
> > > > >> week. This has led
> to
> > a
> > > lot of
> > > > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
> > > > >> staying open
later
> > ...
> > > school
> > > > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> > > > >> available at
those
> > > hours.
> > > > >>
> > > > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
> > > > >> which is meeting
> with
> > a
> > > lot of
> > > > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
> > > > >> until the age of 8.
> > That
> > > pretty much
> > > > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
> > > > >> school, going home
> > with
> > > friends,
> > > > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> > > > >
> > > > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
> > > > >for James that
> was
> > > > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
> > > > >grew out of it last year, aged
8!
> > > > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
> > > > >taught in the past. Not
skinny,
> > > > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
> > > >
> > > > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
> > > > was 4 or 40
pounds
> > ...
> > > now it's
> > > > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
> > > > would not have
> fit
> > > into a
> > > > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
> > > > whatever. Some
people
> > have
> > > made
> > > > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
> > > > larger vehicles,
as
> 3
> > > or more
> > > > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
> > > > they own - yet
> they
> > > can't
> > > > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
> > > > more seats. I
do
> > > understand
> > > > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
> > > > trying to
> accomplish.
> > > I don't
> > > > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
> > > > into effect by men
> who
> > > never
> > > > once had to deal with transporting multiple
> > > > children. <g>
> > > >
> > > > Joyce
> > > >
> > >
> > >
>
 
cool deal.
"Laura" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
> Princeton.
>
> "skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
> [email protected]...
> > Where in NJ?
> >
> > Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area
> >
> > "Laura" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
> > news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but
> > > you are only
> allowed
> > to
> > > drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
> > > the new
> restrictions
> > > that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little
> > > or no driving experience but have their drivers
> > > license. My step daughter had her 6
> > hours
> > > of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
> > > test on tuesday.
> I'm
> > > amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
> > > before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
> > > schools stopped giving driving
> class
> > > due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
> > > schools pump out
> kids
> > > so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
> > > has learned to
> > drive
> > > or not. They got their money. Too many high school
> > > kids have been
killed
> > > because they did not have proper driving instruction
> > > or meaning full 6
> > hours
> > > of experience before getting their license. As a
> > > parent I am grateful
> for
> > > the recent law changes.
> > >
> > > Laura (from NJ)
> > >
> > > "skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
> > > [email protected]...
> > > > Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far
> > > > from New York City
> > incase
> > > > you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
> > > > license until
you
> > are
> > > 17
> > > > years of age and there are restrictions. My best
> > > > friend and her
older
> > > > brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their
> > > > license at 16.
They
> > > ended
> > > > up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
> > > > really
irritated
> > that
> > > > they could drive before him. In his particular case,
> > > > they should
have
> > > > waited longer-but I digress.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
> > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Joyce wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> I do believe their is an exception for
> > > > > >> siblings. I don't know
> the
> > > > exact wording
> > > > > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> > > > > >> requested a
letter
> > > from
> > > > the state)
> > > > > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
> > > > > >> the vehicle
that
> > was
> > > > under the age
> > > > > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
> > > > > >> ... I took
that
> to
> > > > mean that they
> > > > > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
> > > > > >> but no other
> > > passengers.
> > > > This law
> > > > > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her
> > > > > >> license for more than
6
> > > > months when the
> > > > > >> law went into effect. But we did have some
> > > > > >> tense moments, as I
> > would
> > > > not let her
> > > > > >> carry any passengers until I received
> > > > > >> clarification from the
> state.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
> > > > > >the UK, you
have
> > to
> > > > > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> > > > > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
> > > > > >car will legally hold.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
> > > > > or all the
states
> > > have
> > > > set
> > > > > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
> > > > > learners
permits
> at
> > > age
> > > > 15, can
> > > > > apply and test for official license at 16. With
> > > > > the permit, they
> can
> > > only
> > > > drive
> > > > > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
> > > > > front seat with
> > them.
> > > > In order
> > > > > to receive their license, they have to submit a
> > > > > written and signed
> > form
> > > > listing 25
> > > > > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
> > > > > This doesn't
> sound
> > > like
> > > > much,
> > > > > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> > > > > accomplish this
> > task.
> > > > It
> > > > > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
> > > > > holding license
for
> 6
> > > > months, the
> > > > > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
> > > > > still the *seat
> > belt
> > > > law* -
> > > > > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST
> > > > > wear their
seatbelt
> > > > regardless as
> > > > > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding
> > > > > with a driver
under
> > the
> > > > age of
> > > > > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to
> > > > > this law. I'm
> very
> > > > surprised
> > > > > the police can even keep track of them all.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
> > > > > >> but so far
> > > unsuccessful,
> > > > is
> > > > > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
> > > > > >> week. This has
led
> > to
> > > a
> > > > lot of
> > > > > >> opposition due to more teens now working,
> > > > > >> stores staying open
> later
> > > ...
> > > > school
> > > > > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> > > > > >> available at
> those
> > > > hours.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
> > > > > >> which is meeting
> > with
> > > a
> > > > lot of
> > > > > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
> > > > > >> until the age of
8.
> > > That
> > > > pretty much
> > > > > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
> > > > > >> school, going
home
> > > with
> > > > friends,
> > > > > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
> > > > > >for James
that
> > was
> > > > > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
> > > > > >grew out of it last year, aged
> 8!
> > > > > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
> > > > > >taught in the past. Not
> skinny,
> > > > > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
> > > > > was 4 or 40
> pounds
> > > ...
> > > > now it's
> > > > > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids
> > > > > who would not
have
> > fit
> > > > into a
> > > > > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
> > > > > whatever. Some
> people
> > > have
> > > > made
> > > > > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
> > > > > larger
vehicles,
> as
> > 3
> > > > or more
> > > > > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts
> > > > > that they own -
yet
> > they
> > > > can't
> > > > > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would
> > > > > hold more seats.
I
> do
> > > > understand
> > > > > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
> > > > > trying to
> > accomplish.
> > > > I don't
> > > > > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
> > > > > into effect by
men
> > who
> > > > never
> > > > > once had to deal with transporting multiple
> > > > > children. <g>
> > > > >
> > > > > Joyce
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
 
cool deal.
"Laura" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just south of there, in Hillsborough. Down Rt 206 towards
> Princeton.
>
> "skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:2vmdnTZgp-6BN9Pd3cwC-
> [email protected]...
> > Where in NJ?
> >
> > Julie <--lived in Bridgewater area
> >
> > "Laura" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:M9w3c.181469$hR.3353273@bgtnsc05-
> > news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> > > In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but
> > > you are only
> allowed
> > to
> > > drive with an instructor or a parent until 17. I like
> > > the new
> restrictions
> > > that they put on kids here. Too many kids get little
> > > or no driving experience but have their drivers
> > > license. My step daughter had her 6
> > hours
> > > of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
> > > test on tuesday.
> I'm
> > > amazed that she passed. It took her another 6 months
> > > before she could navigate a parking lot correctly. The
> > > schools stopped giving driving
> class
> > > due to the high cost of insurance. The local driving
> > > schools pump out
> kids
> > > so fast just to make money. They don't care if the kid
> > > has learned to
> > drive
> > > or not. They got their money. Too many high school
> > > kids have been
killed
> > > because they did not have proper driving instruction
> > > or meaning full 6
> > hours
> > > of experience before getting their license. As a
> > > parent I am grateful
> for
> > > the recent law changes.
> > >
> > > Laura (from NJ)
> > >
> > > "skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
> > > [email protected]...
> > > > Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far
> > > > from New York City
> > incase
> > > > you didn't know) will not let you get your driver's
> > > > license until
you
> > are
> > > 17
> > > > years of age and there are restrictions. My best
> > > > friend and her
older
> > > > brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their
> > > > license at 16.
They
> > > ended
> > > > up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
> > > > really
irritated
> > that
> > > > they could drive before him. In his particular case,
> > > > they should
have
> > > > waited longer-but I digress.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > > news:[email protected]...
> > > > > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
> > > > <[email protected]>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > >Joyce wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> I do believe their is an exception for
> > > > > >> siblings. I don't know
> the
> > > > exact wording
> > > > > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
> > > > > >> requested a
letter
> > > from
> > > > the state)
> > > > > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in
> > > > > >> the vehicle
that
> > was
> > > > under the age
> > > > > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT
> > > > > >> ... I took
that
> to
> > > > mean that they
> > > > > >> could transport more than one younger sibling,
> > > > > >> but no other
> > > passengers.
> > > > This law
> > > > > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her
> > > > > >> license for more than
6
> > > > months when the
> > > > > >> law went into effect. But we did have some
> > > > > >> tense moments, as I
> > would
> > > > not let her
> > > > > >> carry any passengers until I received
> > > > > >> clarification from the
> state.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in
> > > > > >the UK, you
have
> > to
> > > > > >be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a full
> > > > > >licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
> > > > > >car will legally hold.
> > > > >
> > > > > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law -
> > > > > or all the
states
> > > have
> > > > set
> > > > > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
> > > > > learners
permits
> at
> > > age
> > > > 15, can
> > > > > apply and test for official license at 16. With
> > > > > the permit, they
> can
> > > only
> > > > drive
> > > > > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
> > > > > front seat with
> > them.
> > > > In order
> > > > > to receive their license, they have to submit a
> > > > > written and signed
> > form
> > > > listing 25
> > > > > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law).
> > > > > This doesn't
> sound
> > > like
> > > > much,
> > > > > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
> > > > > accomplish this
> > task.
> > > > It
> > > > > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After
> > > > > holding license
for
> 6
> > > > months, the
> > > > > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
> > > > > still the *seat
> > belt
> > > > law* -
> > > > > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST
> > > > > wear their
seatbelt
> > > > regardless as
> > > > > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding
> > > > > with a driver
under
> > the
> > > > age of
> > > > > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to
> > > > > this law. I'm
> very
> > > > surprised
> > > > > the police can even keep track of them all.
> > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass,
> > > > > >> but so far
> > > unsuccessful,
> > > > is
> > > > > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the
> > > > > >> week. This has
led
> > to
> > > a
> > > > lot of
> > > > > >> opposition due to more teens now working,
> > > > > >> stores staying open
> later
> > > ...
> > > > school
> > > > > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
> > > > > >> available at
> those
> > > > hours.
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
> > > > > >> which is meeting
> > with
> > > a
> > > > lot of
> > > > > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats
> > > > > >> until the age of
8.
> > > That
> > > > pretty much
> > > > > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
> > > > > >> school, going
home
> > > with
> > > > friends,
> > > > > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
> > > > > >
> > > > > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat
> > > > > >for James
that
> > was
> > > > > >supposed to fit a child up to the age of 12... He
> > > > > >grew out of it last year, aged
> 8!
> > > > > >He's already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've
> > > > > >taught in the past. Not
> skinny,
> > > > > >either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
> > > > >
> > > > > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats
> > > > > was 4 or 40
> pounds
> > > ...
> > > > now it's
> > > > > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids
> > > > > who would not
have
> > fit
> > > > into a
> > > > > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
> > > > > whatever. Some
> people
> > > have
> > > > made
> > > > > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
> > > > > larger
vehicles,
> as
> > 3
> > > > or more
> > > > > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts
> > > > > that they own -
yet
> > they
> > > > can't
> > > > > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would
> > > > > hold more seats.
I
> do
> > > > understand
> > > > > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
> > > > > trying to
> > accomplish.
> > > > I don't
> > > > > think it was very well thought out. Probably put
> > > > > into effect by
men
> > who
> > > > never
> > > > > once had to deal with transporting multiple
> > > > > children. <g>
> > > > >
> > > > > Joyce
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
 
I wish they would put as much thought into ALL licensing as
they do into the kids. It amazed me when I was at traffic
court last month (hub hit a women who was backing up down a
one way street). There were several people there who did not
have licenses because they had no social security card (here
on visa's) ... were issued tickets, then had them thrown out
when they were in court. Some of them were on their 3rd time
around for the same thing! Now you know they just walked out
of court and got into their car to go home. What's wrong
with this picture?

And I know my mom should not have been driving as long as
she had - yet she only had to go the the licensing facility
and have a yearly eye exam .. no written testing, no driving
testing - license renewed for another year. My fil had his
license renewed for 4 years when he was 80 years old. And
I've ridden with people my age that I will never get into a
vehicle with again! Hub talks about some of the truck
drivers he deals with who are on multiple DUI's ... yet
their license can't be taken permanently away because
driving is their living. That's pretty dang scary!

Guess there are just too many people now to try and deal
with all the different scenarios.

Joyce

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 03:43:40 GMT, "Laura"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>In NJ you can get your learners permit at age 16 but you
>are only allowed to drive with an instructor or a parent
>until 17. I like the new restrictions that they put on kids
>here. Too many kids get little or no driving experience but
>have their drivers license. My step daughter had her 6
>hours of instruction over the course of a weekend. Took the
>test on tuesday. I'm amazed that she passed. It took her
>another 6 months before she could navigate a parking lot
>correctly. The schools stopped giving driving class due to
>the high cost of insurance. The local driving schools pump
>out kids so fast just to make money. They don't care if the
>kid has learned to drive or not. They got their money. Too
>many high school kids have been killed because they did not
>have proper driving instruction or meaning full 6 hours of
>experience before getting their license. As a parent I am
>grateful for the recent law changes.
>
>Laura (from NJ)
>
>"skiur" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:kE6dnZ06VIWj9dPd3cwC-
>[email protected]...
>> Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
>> York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
>> your driver's license until you are
>17
>> years of age and there are restrictions. My best friend
>> and her older brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get
>> their license at 16. They
>ended
>> up moving to New Jersey and their little brother was
>> really irritated that they could drive before him. In his
>> particular case, they should have waited longer-but I
>> digress.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> "Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
>> <[email protected]>
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> > >Joyce wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
>> > >> don't know the
>> exact wording
>> > >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
>> > >> requested a letter
>from
>> the state)
>> > >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
>> > >> vehicle that was
>> under the age
>> > >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
>> > >> I took that to
>> mean that they
>> > >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
>> > >> no other
>passengers.
>> This law
>> > >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
>> > >> for more than 6
>> months when the
>> > >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
>> > >> moments, as I would
>> not let her
>> > >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
>> > >> from the state.
>> > >
>> > >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
>> > >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have
>> > >a full licence, you can carry as many passengers as
>> > >the car will legally hold.
>> >
>> > No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
>> > all the states
>have
>> set
>> > their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
>> > learners permits at
>age
>> 15, can
>> > apply and test for official license at 16. With the
>> > permit, they can
>only
>> drive
>> > with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
>> > seat with them.
>> In order
>> > to receive their license, they have to submit a written
>> > and signed form
>> listing 25
>> > hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
>> > doesn't sound
>like
>> much,
>> > until you're the parent that has to make sure they
>> > accomplish this task.
>> It
>> > wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
>> > license for 6
>> months, the
>> > 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
>> > still the *seat belt
>> law* -
>> > stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
>> > their seatbelt
>> regardless as
>> > to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
>> > driver under the
>> age of
>> > 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
>> > law. I'm very
>> surprised
>> > the police can even keep track of them all.
>> >
>> > >
>> > >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
>> > >> so far
>unsuccessful,
>> is
>> > >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
>> > >> This has led to
>a
>> lot of
>> > >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
>> > >> staying open later
>...
>> school
>> > >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
>> > >> available at those
>> hours.
>> > >>
>> > >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
>> > >> is meeting with
>a
>> lot of
>> > >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
>> > >> the age of 8.
>That
>> pretty much
>> > >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
>> > >> school, going home
>with
>> friends,
>> > >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
>> > >
>> > >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
>> > >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age
>> > >of 12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's
>> > >already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in
>> > >the past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as
>> > >well as tall.
>> >
>> > When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
>> > 4 or 40 pounds
>...
>> now it's
>> > just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
>> > would not have fit
>> into a
>> > car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
>> > whatever. Some people
>have
>> made
>> > complaints that they would now have to go purchase
>> > larger vehicles, as 3
>> or more
>> > car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
>> > they own - yet they
>> can't
>> > afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
>> > more seats. I do
>> understand
>> > the logic behind the law, along with what they are
>> > trying to accomplish.
>> I don't
>> > think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
>> > effect by men who
>> never
>> > once had to deal with transporting multiple
>> > children. <g>
>> >
>> > Joyce
>> >
>
 
That was my thoughts, and hubs, exactly ... school funding
issues. Around here, the school staff is constantly telling
the students how rough it is, what programs must be cut, how
teachers will be let go ... UNLESS ... I could just see
allowing the *kids* to vote, with all the influence that the
staff is putting on them. We see it anyway, kids were always
coming home from school telling us that if we didn't vote
for the current referendum their favorite teacher would no
longer have a job.

Sometimes the polling attendence doesn't have anything to do
with being informed - although it usually does. I expect we
will have a record low turnout here next week, no real good
reason to go. There are no referendums on the ballot,
republican and democratic candidates are already firm, and
no local stuff to get excited over.

Joyce

On Wed, 10 Mar 2004 22:13:30 -0800, "Deb in Northern
California"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>I agree, I know even though I was allowed to vote at 18, I
>did not register to vote until I was 22 or 23. Have voted
>ever since too. I don't think a child of 14-16 are old
>enough to make an informed decision and that is what voting
>should be, an informed decision on an issue so that you
>have a say so in it. I know a bunch of school boards, that
>would like for the kids to vote so they can get the school
>bond issues to go through. Funny thing is, the politician
>that was proposing that amendment said we had record low
>voter turn out and that was why he wanted to get more
>people into the polls. I think if people were more informed
>they would be more likely to go to the polls and vote.
>
>Debbie
>
>"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> What is with CA laws? Strict on the driving issues, yet I
>> heard on the
>news
>> tonite that they want to make an ammendment (or
>> something) that will allow
>voting
>> in state elections at the age of 14. 14 yr. old votes
>> count as a quarter
>of a
>> vote ... 16 yrs. old count as half a vote. Is it just me,
>> or is this
>ridiculous?
>> I know my kids didn't have a clue or care about the
>> political issues, tax referendums or whatever were being
>> voted for.
>>
>> Joyce
>>
>> On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:39:44 -0800, "Deb in Northern
>> California"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >California law is 7 years or 70 pounds. So they do vary
>> >by state. Also
>the
>> >teen provisional license in California is NO passenger
>> >for the 1st 6
>months
>> >under the age of 25. So the laws do vary by state, but
>> >only slightly.
>> >
>> >Not looking forward to my youngest getting her drivers
>> >permit soon. She will be getting it during Spring break
>> >(the week before Easter). The she has to have it for 6
>> >months before she can become licensed. She will be
>16
>> >and a few months when she gets her license then.
>> >
>> >Debbie
>> >
>> >"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:[email protected]...
>> >> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
>> ><[email protected]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Joyce wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
>> >> >> don't know the
>> >exact wording
>> >> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
>> >> >> requested a letter
>from
>> >the state)
>> >> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
>> >> >> vehicle that was
>> >under the age
>> >> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ...
>> >> >> I took that to
>> >mean that they
>> >> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but
>> >> >> no other
>passengers.
>> >This law
>> >> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license
>> >> >> for more than 6
>> >months when the
>> >> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
>> >> >> moments, as I
>would
>> >not let her
>> >> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
>> >> >> from the state.
>> >> >
>> >> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
>> >> >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you
>> >> >have a full licence, you can carry as many passengers
>> >> >as the car will legally hold.
>> >>
>> >> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or
>> >> all the states
>have
>> >set
>> >> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
>> >> learners permits at
>age
>> >15, can
>> >> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
>> >> permit, they can
>only
>> >drive
>> >> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the
>> >> front seat with them.
>> >In order
>> >> to receive their license, they have to submit a
>> >> written and signed form
>> >listing 25
>> >> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
>> >> doesn't sound
>like
>> >much,
>> >> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
>> >> accomplish this
>task.
>> >It
>> >> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
>> >> license for 6
>> >months, the
>> >> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is
>> >> still the *seat belt
>> >law* -
>> >> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
>> >> their seatbelt
>> >regardless as
>> >> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
>> >> driver under the
>> >age of
>> >> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this
>> >> law. I'm very
>> >surprised
>> >> the police can even keep track of them all.
>> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but
>> >> >> so far
>unsuccessful,
>> >is
>> >> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
>> >> >> This has led to
>a
>> >lot of
>> >> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
>> >> >> staying open later
>...
>> >school
>> >> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
>> >> >> available at those
>> >hours.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters,
>> >> >> which is meeting with
>a
>> >lot of
>> >> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until
>> >> >> the age of 8.
>That
>> >pretty much
>> >> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to
>> >> >> school, going home
>with
>> >friends,
>> >> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
>> >> >
>> >> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
>> >> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age
>> >> >of 12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's
>> >> >already taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught
>> >> >in the past. Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad
>> >> >as well as tall.
>> >>
>> >> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was
>> >> 4 or 40 pounds
>...
>> >now it's
>> >> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
>> >> would not have
>fit
>> >into a
>> >> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall,
>> >> whatever. Some people
>have
>> >made
>> >> complaints that they would now have to go purchase
>> >> larger vehicles, as
>3
>> >or more
>> >> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that
>> >> they own - yet
>they
>> >can't
>> >> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold
>> >> more seats. I do
>> >understand
>> >> the logic behind the law, along with what they are
>> >> trying to
>accomplish.
>> >I don't
>> >> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
>> >> effect by men
>who
>> >never
>> >> once had to deal with transporting multiple
>> >> children. <g>
>> >>
>> >> Joyce
>> >>
>> >
>
 
On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 16:27:59 +0000, Kate Dicey <[email protected]>
wrote:

>Joyce wrote:
>
>> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
>> the states have set their laws to be the same. Kids can
>> receive their learners permits at age 15, can apply and
>> test for official license at 16. With the permit, they
>> can only drive with a licensed adult (over the age of 21)
>> in the front seat with them. In order to receive their
>> license, they have to submit a written and signed form
>> listing 25 hours of practice driving time (An Illinois
>> law). This doesn't sound like much, until you're the
>> parent that has to make sure they accomplish this task.
>> It wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
>> license for 6 months, the 1 passenger restriction is
>> lifted ... but there is still the *seat belt law* -
>> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
>> their seatbelt regardless as to being in the front or
>> rear seat (when riding with a driver under the age of
>> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
>> I'm very surprised the police can even keep track of
>> them all.
>
>Here you can apply for your provisional licence on your
>17th birthday, and pass your test that day too if you like!
>I've had several friends do that: Kids of farmers who've
>been driving the farm stuff for years, since they were
>literally too small to reach all the pedals!

You can do that here, but have to be 18. If you want to
drive earlier (at 16) then you have to take a drivers ed
program, either privately or through the local schools.
>
>For us for cars it doesn't matter where you sit you have to
>wear a seatbelt unless you have a job or medical exemption.
>I don't think car seats are mandatory, but they are
>advised. The wording is 'suitably restrained', I think.
>This can mean a car seat for tiddlers, a booster seat for
>larger kids, or one of those lap things that hold the seat
>belt into the right non-strangling position.

I do believe in restraints for all passengers, hate to say
how many deaths I have heard of due to occupants being
ejected from the vehicles. If the restraints (in whatever
form) will give us a fighting chance, then I'm all for it.
>
>
>When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4 or
>40 pounds ... now it's
>
>> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
>> would not have fit into a car seat at 8 years old - too
>> heavy, too tall, whatever. Some people have made
>> complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
>> vehicles, as 3 or more car seats will not fit easily into
>> the compacts that they own - yet they can't afford the
>> more costly vans or suv's that would hold more seats. I
>> do understand the logic behind the law, along with what
>> they are trying to accomplish. I don't think it was very
>> well thought out. Probably put into effect by men who
>> never once had to deal with transporting multiple
>> children. <g>
>
>Hah! Beaurocracy gorn mad, innit.

LOL! Sure is!

Joyce
>
>>
>>
>> Joyce
 
Thanks for the info - so licensing laws must be a state
thing, not federal. I do think parents need to be more
realistic in deciding if their child is truly ready to
drive. My daughters friend should not have his license .. he
still can't park well. I think he has hit 3 cars in parking
lots, sideswiped an ATM machine ... that I'm aware of. <G>

Joyce

On Tue, 9 Mar 2004 18:46:06 -0600, "skiur"
<[email protected]> wrote:

>Joyce the state of New Jersey (Kate it's not far from New
>York City incase you didn't know) will not let you get
>your driver's license until you are 17 years of age and
>there are restrictions. My best friend and her older
>brother lived in Pennsylvania and could get their license
>at 16. They ended up moving to New Jersey and their little
>brother was really irritated that they could drive before
>him. In his particular case, they should have waited longer-
>but I digress.
>
>
>
>
>"Joyce" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> On Tue, 09 Mar 2004 10:04:56 +0000, Kate Dicey
><[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Joyce wrote:
>> >
>> >> I do believe their is an exception for siblings. I
>> >> don't know the
>exact wording
>> >> (probably have it somewhere in the house, as I
>> >> requested a letter from
>the state)
>> >> but it was basically that only one passenger in the
>> >> vehicle that was
>under the age
>> >> of 18 (or 21??) with exception to siblings. BUT ... I
>> >> took that to
>mean that they
>> >> could transport more than one younger sibling, but no
>> >> other passengers.
>This law
>> >> didn't affect my daughter, as she had her license for
>> >> more than 6
>months when the
>> >> law went into effect. But we did have some tense
>> >> moments, as I would
>not let her
>> >> carry any passengers until I received clarification
>> >> from the state.
>> >
>> >Does driver age vary from state to state? Here in the
>> >UK, you have to be 17 to learn to drive. Once you have a
>> >full licence, you can carry as many passengers as the
>> >car will legally hold.
>>
>> No, the learning age appears to be a federal law - or all
>> the states have
>set
>> their laws to be the same. Kids can receive their
>> learners permits at age
>15, can
>> apply and test for official license at 16. With the
>> permit, they can only
>drive
>> with a licensed adult (over the age of 21) in the front
>> seat with them.
>In order
>> to receive their license, they have to submit a written
>> and signed form
>listing 25
>> hours of practice driving time (An Illinois law). This
>> doesn't sound like
>much,
>> until you're the parent that has to make sure they
>> accomplish this task.
>It
>> wasn't easy, seemed to take forever. <g> After holding
>> license for 6
>months, the
>> 1 passenger restriction is lifted ... but there is still
>> the *seat belt
>law* -
>> stating all passengers under the age of 18 MUST wear
>> their seatbelt
>regardless as
>> to being in the front or rear seat (when riding with a
>> driver under the
>age of
>> 21). There are all kinds of twists and turns to this law.
>> I'm very
>surprised
>> the police can even keep track of them all.
>>
>> >
>> >> Another law the state has been trying to pass, but so
>> >> far unsuccessful,
>is
>> >> changing the driving curfew to 9PM during the week.
>> >> This has led to a
>lot of
>> >> opposition due to more teens now working, stores
>> >> staying open later ...
>school
>> >> activities later in the evenings with no busing
>> >> available at those
>hours.
>> >>
>> >> And then the new car seat laws for youngsters, which
>> >> is meeting with a
>lot of
>> >> complaints ... all kids must be in car seats until the
>> >> age of 8. That
>pretty much
>> >> cuts down on the possibility of car pooling to school,
>> >> going home with
>friends,
>> >> etc. 8 years old is what ... 3rd grade?
>> >
>> >AKK! THAT wouldn't work for us! We had a car seat for
>> >James that was supposed to fit a child up to the age of
>> >12... He grew out of it last year, aged 8! He's already
>> >taller than quite a few 13 YO's I've taught in the past.
>> >Not skinny, either: not fat, but broad as well as tall.
>>
>> When I was raising the kids, the age for car seats was 4
>> or 40 pounds ...
>now it's
>> just a flat *age of 8 yrs.*. I know several kids who
>> would not have fit
>into a
>> car seat at 8 years old - too heavy, too tall, whatever.
>> Some people have
>made
>> complaints that they would now have to go purchase larger
>> vehicles, as 3
>or more
>> car seats will not fit easily into the compacts that they
>> own - yet they
>can't
>> afford the more costly vans or suv's that would hold more
>> seats. I do
>understand
>> the logic behind the law, along with what they are trying
>> to accomplish.
>I don't
>> think it was very well thought out. Probably put into
>> effect by men who
>never
>> once had to deal with transporting multiple children. <g>
>>
>> Joyce
>
 
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