3TTT MOTUS STEM BROKE!

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Derk, Feb 15, 2004.

  1. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Hi,

    While cycling my 3TTT Motus stem suddenly broke.

    I would advise everyone who has one to periodically check the part that holds the bolts. This caused
    the problems of the Motus I have.

    Before it broke it creaked a bit, which I forgot to check once at home.

    Greets, Derk
     
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  2. Derk <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hi,
    >
    > While cycling my 3TTT Motus stem suddenly broke.
    >
    > I would advise everyone who has one to periodically check the part that holds the bolts. This
    > caused the problems of the Motus I have.
    >
    > Before it broke it creaked a bit, which I forgot to check once at home.
    >
    > Greets, Derk

    Derk,

    I had the same problem last spring. The clamp fractured at the bottom bolt. Apparently, the torque
    specs are quite specific; the bolts need to be tightened exactly as called out in the tech
    literature. I hope you didn't perform a face plant when the stem broke. I was lucky..I was down in
    the drops, so I could hold on when the bars rotated.

    If you don't get any satisfaction formn your LBS, try talking to the folks at 3ttt directly
    <[email protected]>. They were very nice, and replaced my stem with no trouble (or charge!). They did
    however, want the old stem shipped back to them. Shipping to Italy was not that expensive, and i was
    more than satisfied with the the service.

    Good Luck

    //jtd//
     
  3. Tom Paterson

    Tom Paterson Guest

    >If you don't get any satisfaction formn your LBS, try talking to the folks at 3ttt directly
    ><[email protected]>. They were very nice, and replaced my stem with no trouble (or charge!). They did
    >however, want the old stem shipped back to them. Shipping to Italy was not that expensive, and i
    >was more than satisfied >with the the service.

    3ttt BREAKS THE LAW!!!! And provides satisfactory customer service with no courts/lawyers
    involved. Too easy?

    And there could have been an installation error at cause. But sounds like they know they have a
    design problem, and are replacing the ones that break. JMHO. --Tom Paterson
     
  4. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Johnny Two Pedals wrote:

    > I had the same problem last spring. The clamp fractured at the bottom bolt.
    Same here!

    > Apparently, the torque specs are quite specific; the bolts need
    > to be tightened exactly as called out in the tech literature.
    I did this with a torque wrench.

    > I hope you didn't perform a face plant when the stem broke. I was
    > lucky..I was down in the drops, so I could hold on when the bars rotated.
    Sounds like a copy of what happened to me.

    > If you don't get any satisfaction formn your LBS, try talking to the folks at 3ttt directly
    > <[email protected]>. They were very nice, and replaced my stem with no trouble (or charge!).
    I am going to mount another stem. I don't trust this one any more.

    Greetings, Derk
     
  5. [email protected] (Tom Paterson) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > >If you don't get any satisfaction formn your LBS, try talking to the folks at 3ttt directly
    > ><[email protected]>. They were very nice, and replaced my stem with no trouble (or charge!). They did
    > >however, want the old stem shipped back to them. Shipping to Italy was not that expensive, and i
    > >was more than satisfied >with the the service.
    >
    > 3ttt BREAKS THE LAW!!!! And provides satisfactory customer service with no courts/lawyers
    > involved. Too easy?
    >
    > And there could have been an installation error at cause. But sounds like they know they have a
    > design problem, and are replacing the ones that break. JMHO. --Tom Paterson

    Tom,

    Whoa now, big fella! Sounds like you got your knickers in a twist over this....

    To be completely accurate about this "legal transgression" on the part of 3TTT, you should know the
    entire story. (B-T-B, I wrote the post you quoted without attribution...naughty naughty!). I very
    well may have installed the stem incorrectly, or made the cardinal mistake of "re-tightening" the
    bolts during a sanity check. In either case, 3TTT was informed of this. The stem was out of
    warranty, so the US importer did not help, and the LBS from which it was purcahsed was Out of
    Business. I could not locate another like stem either by mail order or from a brick and mortar LBS
    (quality quill stems are becoming rather rare). As a last resort, I contacted 3TTT , inquiring about
    procuring a replacement clamp, and was surprised when they offered to replace the entire stem,
    gratis. They could just as easily told me to go piss up a rope (anybody care to translate that into
    Italian?) Perhaps the folks at 3TTT were impressed that I took the time to have my original email
    translated into Italian before sending it, or by the photos enclosed to illustrate the break.
    Perhaps they were trying to hide a design problem...but really, I don't care! My problem was solved
    without rancor, and no lawyers got to suck any blood.

    After rereading your post a few times, I'm still not sure if your tongue is firmly planted in your
    cheek, or if you have some axe to grind. Assuming the latter, I fail to see why you would have
    problems with any company providing decent service to a customer...unless you are a recent Law
    School grad who needs to pay off his BMW/student loans.

    In either case, keep em' spinning!

    //jtd//
     
  6. Frank Knox

    Frank Knox Guest

    "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi,
    >
    > While cycling my 3TTT Motus stem suddenly broke.
    >
    > I would advise everyone who has one to periodically check the part that holds the bolts. This
    > caused the problems of the Motus I have.
    >
    > Before it broke it creaked a bit, which I forgot to check once at home.
    >
    > Greets, Derk

    Less than a year after I bought my 3TTT Motus, mine creaked. I checked the part that holds the bolts
    and saw large cracks. I didn't warranty it because I *really* don't want any critical parts like
    this (on my bike) made by this company. I bought a Salsa stem made by Waterford.
     
  7. "Frank Knox" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > While cycling my 3TTT Motus stem suddenly broke.
    > >
    > > I would advise everyone who has one to periodically check the part that holds the bolts. This
    > > caused the problems of the Motus I have.
    > >
    > > Before it broke it creaked a bit, which I forgot to check once at home.
    > >
    > > Greets, Derk
    >
    > Less than a year after I bought my 3TTT Motus, mine creaked. I checked the part that holds the
    > bolts and saw large cracks. I didn't warranty it because I *really* don't want any critical parts
    > like this (on my bike) made by this company. I bought a Salsa stem made by Waterford.

    Hmmmmmm...I thought my incident was rather isolated, but it seems that may not be the case. I
    performed a google search after my break, and didn't get a single hit....now here are three
    identical stories. Not enough to be statisticaly valid, but a good basis for a much closer watch. I
    wonder how many others are lurking in the weeds?

    Perhaps a new stem may not be such a bad idea...tis a shame, however...the Motus is a stiff,good
    looking stem, and I really like the fixing bolt sweat cover.

    Were you using 3TTT bars also?

    //jtd//
     
  8. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Johnny Two Pedals wrote:

    > Perhaps a new stem may not be such a bad idea...tis a shame,
    My dealer ordered me a Mutant instead. Hopefully these are more reliable?

    > Were you using 3TTT bars also?
    I have a 3TTT bar also.

    I read in TOUR Magazine that they weren't fond of the Forgie either btw....

    Greets, Derk
     
  9. Derk <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I read in TOUR Magazine that they weren't fond of the Forgie either btw....

    What exactly did they say about the Forgie? I used one for 11,000 km without an incident, not that
    it proves anything. It has only one bolt in the steerer clamp and only two for the face plate, which
    obviously isn't the best possible design.
     
  10. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Antti Salonen wrote:

    > What exactly did they say about the Forgie? I used one for 11,000 km without an incident, not that
    > it proves anything. It has only one bolt in the steerer clamp and only two for the face plate,
    > which obviously isn't the best possible design.
    They tested 2 Forgie Stem/Bar combinations and both of the bars broke close to the stem....

    Check that bar!

    Greets, Derk
     
  11. Derk <[email protected]> wrote:

    > They tested 2 Forgie Stem/Bar combinations and both of the bars broke close to the stem....
    >
    > Check that bar!

    I have checked both bars I've used with the steam recently, and they showed nothing out of the
    ordinary. There are/were two stems called Forgie in the 3T line, one traditional and one Aheadset-
    type. Which one was tested by the Tour magazine?

    -as
     
  12. Frank Knox

    Frank Knox Guest

    "Johnny Two Pedals" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Frank Knox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > "Derk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > > Hi,
    > > >
    > > > While cycling my 3TTT Motus stem suddenly broke.
    > > >
    > > > I would advise everyone who has one to periodically check the part
    that
    > > > holds the bolts. This caused the problems of the Motus I have.
    > > >
    > > > Before it broke it creaked a bit, which I forgot to check once at
    home.
    > > >
    > > > Greets, Derk
    > >
    > > Less than a year after I bought my 3TTT Motus, mine creaked. I checked
    the
    > > part that holds the bolts and saw large cracks. I didn't warranty it because I *really* don't
    > > want any critical parts
    like
    > > this (on my bike) made by this company. I bought a Salsa stem made by Waterford.
    >
    > Hmmmmmm...I thought my incident was rather isolated, but it seems that may not be the case. I
    > performed a google search after my break, and didn't get a single hit....now here are three
    > identical stories. Not enough to be statisticaly valid, but a good basis for a much closer watch.
    > I wonder how many others are lurking in the weeds?
    >
    > Perhaps a new stem may not be such a bad idea...tis a shame, however...the Motus is a stiff,good
    > looking stem, and I really like the fixing bolt sweat cover.
    >
    > Were you using 3TTT bars also?
    >
    > //jtd//
    Cinelli Giro Italia
     
  13. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Kraig Willett writes:

    > Cool stem failure video (165 kb *.wmv file) here:

    > http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/images/stemage.WMV

    > and the accompanying blurb here:

    > http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/extremeload.htm

    It's not obvious from reading the explanation what the load and load cycling was during this test. I
    take it th buzzing noise is the frequency of load cycles but I think it might be helpful if we knew:

    1. What the static load used was.
    2. What the cyclic varying load was.
    3. What the frequency was.
    4. What that means in millions of stress cycles.

    Without that, I'm no wiser than before seeing the test or it's result. From the failure pictures I
    see that the weld bead broke rather than tearing out parts of the base metal but that still tells
    me little.

    Please explain.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  14. Derk

    Derk Guest

    Antti Salonen wrote:

    > I have checked both bars I've used with the steam recently, and they showed nothing out of the
    > ordinary. There are/were two stems called Forgie in the 3T line, one traditional and one Aheadset-
    > type. Which one was tested by the Tour magazine?
    The ahead set.

    Greets, Derk
     
  15. Derk

    Derk Guest

    I could send the picture by email to those who are interested.

    Greets, Derk
     
  16. [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Kraig Willett writes:
    >
    > > Cool stem failure video (165 kb *.wmv file) here:
    >
    > > http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/images/stemage.WMV
    >
    > > and the accompanying blurb here:
    >
    > > http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/extremeload.htm
    >
    > It's not obvious from reading the explanation what the load and load cycling was during this test.

    It's a blurb that occupied a free weekend some time ago - it's not a journal article.

    >I take it th buzzing noise is the frequency of load cycles

    Nope, it's an air compressor.

    >but I think it might be helpful if we knew:
    >
    > 1. What the static load used was.
    > 2. What the cyclic varying load was.

    to ~1000lbs

    > 3. What the frequency was.

    Pressure on for around 4 seconds and off for four seconds (you can probably prove me wrong by
    looking closely at the video, but that is approximately correct from memory).

    > 4. What that means in millions of stress cycles.

    Definitively, beyond a reasonable doubt with a 99% confidence level? - probably not a whole lot
    unless one has lots of time and money. I have neither. Some might argue that a protocol that does
    not go into the millions of cycles acceptable for comparative and developmental purposes as long as
    the failure modes are representative.

    FWIW, the failure mode in this stem was the same as a CT stem that I tested for several hundred
    thousand cycles.

    > Without that, I'm no wiser than before seeing the test or it's result.

    But you were pretty wise to begin with, and I didn't write it for you specifically. It was aimed at
    a much broader audience who might not even know that stems can _possibly_ fail - or where to look
    when inspecting one.

    C'mon Jobst, it wasn't even a _little_ cool seeing that stem snap like a twig?

    > From the failure pictures I see that the weld bead broke rather than tearing out parts of the base
    > metal but that still tells me little.
    >
    > Please explain.

    Any other questions?

    -kraig
     
  17. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Kraig Willett writes:

    >>> Cool stem failure video (165 kb *.wmv file) here:

    http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/images/stemage.WMV

    >>> and the accompanying blurb here:

    http://www.biketechreview.com/stems/extremeload.htm

    >> It's not obvious from reading the explanation what the load and load cycling was during
    >> this test.

    > It's a blurb that occupied a free weekend some time ago - it's not a journal article.

    I don't understand what you mean by that. If you did tested the stem then you might give a few
    sentences on the parameters involved.

    >> I take it th buzzing noise is the frequency of load cycles

    > Nope, it's an air compressor.

    I thought the sound track had something to do with the test. That was a bit misleading.

    >> but I think it might be helpful if we knew:

    >> 1. What the static load used was.
    >> 2. What the cyclic varying load was.

    > to ~1000lbs

    >> 3. What the frequency was.

    > Pressure on for around 4 seconds and off for four seconds (you can probably prove me wrong by
    > looking closely at the video, but that is approximately correct from memory).

    Oh! That was the blurriness of the picture. Usually such tests are done with a steady load with a
    superimposed vibratory load so that a reasonable statistical number of load repetitions are
    achieved. 1000lbs in the direction perceptible from the video is not a realistic load for a
    handlebar stem considering that stems are loaded by torsion more than any other load.

    >> 4. What that means in millions of stress cycles.

    > Definitively, beyond a reasonable doubt with a 99% confidence level? - probably not a whole lot
    > unless one has lots of time and money. I have neither. Some might argue that a protocol that does
    > not go into the millions of cycles acceptable for comparative and developmental purposes as long
    > as the failure modes are representative.

    There were no million cycles at the rate you mention, or the test would still be underway. The
    failure mode using 1000lbs may not have anything to do with failure in use, or it may do so but as I
    said, this is not the principal loading on a stem.

    > FWIW, the failure mode in this stem was the same as a CT stem that I tested for several hundred
    > thousand cycles.

    How was that test constructed?

    >> Without that, I'm no wiser than before seeing the test or its result.

    > But you were pretty wise to begin with, and I didn't write it for you specifically. It was aimed
    > at a much broader audience who might not even know that stems can _possibly_ fail - or where to
    > look when inspecting one.

    In condescending to a less informed audience, you left out essential elements of a credible failure
    test. If you write it up, it should contain the information essential to the test and its
    credibility.

    > C'mon Jobst, it wasn't even a _little_ cool seeing that stem snap like a twig?

    If you doubles the load, do you think it would do otherwise? How about 1/4 the load and over a
    larger number of cycles? I'm sure I can cause a failure in any commercial stem with 1000lbs
    test load.

    >> From the failure pictures I see that the weld bead broke rather than tearing out parts of the
    >> base metal but that still tells me little.

    >> Please explain.

    > Any other questions?

    I take it you came into this with foregone conclusions and don't want to go back and reconsider any
    of it. This is not giving the stem a fair hearing. I am not convinced of your assessment on the
    basis of this test. It may or may not be a good stem but without comparing it to some other well
    accepted stem, the test is not revealing anything useful.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected]
     
  18. For me, the response you gave me to the following question posed last
    June (after your review of the complete stem test and write-up) was
    all I needed:

    Did you see anything that you would consider egregiously wrong?

    You've seen the whole test, its results and now it seems as if you are feigning ignorance - what
    gives, what is your motivation behind this bizarre line of questioning?

    -kraig
     
  19. > They could just as easily told me to go piss up a rope (anybody care to translate that into
    > Italian?)

    avrebbero potuto semplicemente mandarmi a quel paese (politically correct) avrebbero potuto
    semplicemente mandarmi a cagare (politically incorrect)

    :)

    Francesco
     
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