40k best time

[leanman]

whats everyones best 40k tt time?
i am leaning towards doing a few of these this 2010 season. road races and a few of these when they come up.. there are a few 10 mile tt's and a few 40k tt's.
i have no areo equipment, but i remember what my friend once told me. this dude was really fast in a 40k tt too!!
he said if you cant break an hour without the aero stuff, dont waste your money buying all the expensive fancy stuff. i agree.
thanks
leanman

 

[alienator]

whats everyones best 40k tt time?
i am leaning towards doing a few of these this 2010 season. road races and a few of these when they come up.. there are a few 10 mile tt's and a few 40k tt's.
i have no areo equipment, but i remember what my friend once told me. this dude was really fast in a 40k tt too!!
he said if you cant break an hour without the aero stuff, dont waste your money buying all the expensive fancy stuff. i agree.
thanks
leanman

You agree? But you haven't done a 40k, yet. Aero wheels would especially benefit anyone that can do a 40k in around and hour. Nothing magical or defining aerodynamically happens at 40 kph.

 

[reemasams]

whats everyones best 40k tt time?
i am leaning towards doing a few of these this 2010 season. road races and a few of these when they come up.. there are a few 10 mile tt's and a few 40k tt's.
i have no areo equipment, but i remember what my friend once told me. this dude was really fast in a 40k tt too!!
he said if you cant break an hour without the aero stuff, dont waste your money buying all the expensive fancy stuff. i agree.
thanks
leanman

I do agree with your views about not to buy all expensive fancy stuff.. Year 2010 road race would be very interesting.

 

[alienator]

I hear that the UCI, for 2010, has outlawed fancy stuff. By the new rules, all races will have to be conducted on Schwinn Varsity frames, with 40 spoke Wolber rims and Suntour hubs, and 5s SunTour groups.

Imagine how crazy all the sensible people went when cyclists started using those newfangled, fancy "derailleurs."

 

[leanman]

i have done only a few. this coming year i hope to do a few more.
my 40k best is 55:12. the other few are in the high 55's.
my 20k best is 27:13. this was done in the rain on a rolling course. i did a 10 mile tt and was just a bit over 13:00 going into the wind, but flatted on the way back..all done with no areo..
i hope to do a few more of these this 2010 season..
thanks

 

[jollyrogers]

whats everyones best 40k tt time?
he said if you cant break an hour without the aero stuff, dont waste your money buying all the expensive fancy stuff. i agree.
thanks
leanman

Your friend doesn't have a good understanding of the math involved. Since a 40K is a fixed distance (as opposed to a fixed time), a slower rider will "enjoy" the benefits of aero gear for a longer period of time, racking up increased time savings in the process.

One disclaimer is that, if crosswinds are relatively strong and significantly off a riders direction of travel, a slower rider will experience a higher yaw angle than a slower rider. If this yaw angle is high enough to cause wheels, aero frame tubes, etc to stall, that equipment no longer provides an aero benefit.

Most aero gear works by keeping airflow attached (as opposed to punching a smaller hole through the air). High yaw angles (angle of attack) will stall the aero shape just like a high yaw angle will stall a wing/rotor.

 

[lanierb]

Your friend doesn't have a good understanding of the math involved. Since a 40K is a fixed distance (as opposed to a fixed time), a slower rider will "enjoy" the benefits of aero gear for a longer period of time, racking up increased time savings in the process.

The percentage difference will be the same for all riders: if a fast rider saves 10% by switching to aero wheels, then a slow rider will save the same 10%.

 

[lanierb]

i have done only a few. this coming year i hope to do a few more.
my 40k best is 55:12. the other few are in the high 55's.
my 20k best is 27:13. this was done in the rain on a rolling course. i did a 10 mile tt and was just a bit over 13:00 going into the wind, but flatted on the way back..all done with no areo..
i hope to do a few more of these this 2010 season..
thanks

What's your AP for these efforts? Also, when you say no aero, are you not even using deep section wheels?

 

[bobdejonge]

My best 40k TT times are mid-54's. This is with full-up max aero, although I've never done the aero helmet. This is on a quite flat 40k, start/stop at same point.
The comment re: sub-hour sans aero, if by this you mean full Merckx mode (box section 32s wheels, normal road bike, drop bars, etc.) that is a great goal. A sub-hour Merckx mode 40k with no wind assist is good speed & great accomplishment. This still stands as a solid training goal.
I would certainly not agree with your friend, however, regarding aero equipment. I would suggest getting into as much aero stuff as you can afford, as it makes great training motivation recording best times and comparing equipment effects.
FWIW, at this speed range (~26-27 mph avg) I've found the difference over a flat 40k course between a Merckx mode and full aero setup to be ~6-7 minutes. I have found this difference to be quite linearly proportional to TT distance as well.
An average dedicated cyclist should be able to break the hour with minimal aero stuff - maybe using only aero wheels. I'm thinking a Cervelo Soloist with Carbone Ultimates would do nicely.

I've kept records for many years on TT's ranging from 4 to 100 miles. The shorter (4, 10, 25 miles) I've recorded in both Merckx Mode and full aero mode. Personally, I never went after anything longer than ~25 miles on a TT bike.

 

[leanman]

lanierb
my ap? sorry, but i dont know what ap means..i dont know what half these letters mean. i just tuck low and go hard. it hurts, but all hard efforts hurt..
my wheels are either my ksyirum's that came with the bike, or my hand build wheels. 1550 grams. 32 spokes. huge hubs. mavic open pro rims. i think swiss spokes. just solid stuff. i dont have the $ to buy the fancy stuff.
and if i could affort it, and bought top wheels, what would my time of 55 - 56 minutes get me??? 54? maybe. so 54 gets me top 10 not top 15..
so that time wont get me to the olympics or make me any money, so i will save 2 grand and not buy the fancy wheels, and just go the best i can on my old stuff.
i try to be realistic with myself, and just do the best i can with the bike and wheels i have. i am older, and just do this sport to slow down father time. i will never get any better, just maintaining is hard enough work..some of these dudes come riding up in a gigantic fancy car, top of the line bike, and in the x wind, they are the first ones off the back..then i ask myself, is it the bike, or the rider??i'll train hard on my old bike and wheels..

 

[bobdejonge]

If you're saying you're capable of a 55-56 minute 40k TT (no wind assist) with 32 spoke Open Pro rims, regular drop bars, etc. on a normal road bike -- consider yourself fast! You should go buy a BMC TT-1, equip it with a nice disc in the back & 909 or something up front, some nice streamlined aero bars, and go trolling for pro contracts! That equipment should get you to 50 minute flat range compared with 55-56 minutes on a road bike as you imply.

 

[whyohwhy]

Hello,

my best times for 25m (40km) and 10m were done 14yrs ago on quite heavy bikes we had tri bars and Discs but nothing was made of carbon then and Titanium was very expensive,anyway they were

10m = 20:50
25m = 53:20 and 50m or 80km = 1:53:10

Regards Wayne.

 

[swampy1970]

whats everyones best 40k tt time?
i am leaning towards doing a few of these this 2010 season. road races and a few of these when they come up.. there are a few 10 mile tt's and a few 40k tt's.
i have no areo equipment, but i remember what my friend once told me. this dude was really fast in a 40k tt too!!
he said if you cant break an hour without the aero stuff, dont waste your money buying all the expensive fancy stuff. i agree.
thanks
leanman

Swings and roundabouts... and it all depends on your desire to get a faster time. In general (I love that huge sweeping statement) if you're going over 18 to 20 mph then aero goodies will help - and can help lots.

If you have no aero equipment - a set of tribars, aero helmet and skinsuit should be on the top of your list - before you start shelling out megadollars on wheels and frames.

You make up the majority of frontal area so make changes to your first rather than the bike.

You say your friend was fast - define how fast.

 

[slinny]

i might be able to tell you soon and would also be interested to hear,I am cycling vietnam to cambodia in february for charity and was going to start cycling to sheffield from leeds and back to push trainin....

 

[jollyrogers]

The percentage difference will be the same for all riders: if a fast rider saves 10% by switching to aero wheels, then a slow rider will save the same 10%.

And 10% of 65 is larger than 10% of 55. I'm just saying...

For the OP - when it comes to drag, the number 1 source of it is the human body so seeking to reduce drag there will pay the most benefits if it can be done without reducing the power you generate more than the drag you eliminate. Aero bars and a fit are two ways to get there.

Beyond that, an aero helmet and deep section wheels are the two best ways to reduce drag. From what I've read, the drag reduction between the two is pretty similar. Helmet is cheaper and better at very low yaw. Wheels can be pricey, though a rear wheel cover is ~ $80 and is roughly as slippery as a disc.

 

[lanierb]

AP=average power. I was wondering what your power output was.

You must at least be using aero bars, right? Even so, 55-56 minutes with a regular road bike and open pro's is pretty fast. You must be a beast leanman!

 

[acoggan]

51:58 on a single.
46:47 on a tandem.

 

[flapsupcleanup]

Andy,

Damn!

AP?

 

[fergie]

40.6km course in 1:00.10 in 1988 Merckx position. Beaten for U19 Regional title by two guys on aero bars

 

[daveryanwyoming]

...he said if you cant break an hour without the aero stuff, dont waste your money buying all the expensive fancy stuff. ...

Which is roughly equivalent to saying if you can't win a Cat 5 crit on a cruiser bike then you shouldn't buy a race bike because you clearly won't be able to win a Cat 1 race without more fitness...

I haven't raced a TT in full 'Eddy' mode since the mid '80s and I'm sure my times were dog slow then regardless of the gear but I managed 58 minutes on a stock road bike with clip on bars and no other aero goodies a few years ago. My best time on a full TT rig is 56 minutes to date.

Fergie's example above is a good reason to make at least a nominal investment in aero gear, at least clip on aero bars if you're going to sign up for time trials. I guess if you're really not worried about the results then it doesn't matter but it'd be pretty frustrating to nail a killer 57 minute 40K in Eddy mode and miss the podium to some 54 minute guys who paid attention to aerodynamics.

The other reason not to put off aero bars is that it typically takes a while to optimize your aero position such that you can hold it for the duration and don't sacrifice too much power. Bummer to top off your fitness on your road bike, get below an hour in Eddy mode then find out your power drops by 20% in the aero bars because you didn't train at those hip angles or can't stay in the aero bars on race day since you didn't spend time training in that position.

But in terms of the really big investments like a Zipp Sub-9 and a top end TT frame, yeah I can see his point. Probably makes sense to do a few TTs to figure out how much you enjoy them before mortgaging the house for a couple of minutes on race day.

Good luck,
-Dave