On 22/9/04 1:23 pm, in article [email hidden], "Colin
Blackburn said:
The "indirectly" there involves using a paper OS map to go out into the field as a basis for doing the surveying process yourself.
That must be very tenuous legally. If I were to look at my OS map on my way to a particular site then that is using an OS map to go out into the field. But if I then draw a map entirely without reference to the Ordnance Survey map, how can that be a breach of copyright?
Sorry, my wording was bad there. I mean using the OS map in the field as part of the surveying process (rather than using it to get there.)
On 22 Sep 2004 03:51:16 -0700, "MSeries" <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
I have been thinking about describing my favourite rides on my website, obviously including a map would beneficial. I use OS maps so it would be best to scan the relevant parts and superimpose my route on it. I understand that copying an OS map is illegal for most purposes so I emailed them to check. To do what I want would mean I need to buy a licence for £47.50+VAT. Stuff that, I'll draw them myself !
What's the situation if you use a product such as Autoroute as the basis for your maps?
What's the situation if you use a product such as Autoroute as the basis for your maps?
If the base for a map is not an OS map but another map then you may still need an OS licence if that map is based on an OS map. Newer orienteering maps based on older orienteering maps still acknowledge the OS if the older map used the OS. In addition you may need permission from the copyright holder of the non-OS map. It's a minefield!
If the base for a map is not an OS map but another map then you may still need an OS licence if that map is based on an OS map. Newer orienteering maps based on older orienteering maps still acknowledge the OS if the older map used the OS. In addition you may need permission from the copyright holder of the non-OS map. It's a minefield!
A solution to this problem may be be to draw your own, which is perhaps not as daunting as it sounds given the availability of logging GPS receivers and software such as rideplot (http://rideplot.sourceforge.net/) which can produces traces of the logs.
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 15:04:50 +0000 (UTC), Mike Quin <[email hidden]>
Quoted message said:
A solution to this problem may be be to draw your own, which is perhaps not as daunting as it sounds given the availability of logging GPS receivers and software such as rideplot (http://rideplot.sourceforge.net/) which can produces traces of the logs.
That's okay for areas with good coverage or where you can plot easy lines to fill in any gaps. I use GPS trackmaker and some home spun software to produce tracks of fell runs (idle suriosity rather than purpose.) Mapping a dense woodland is another matter, though even here an altimeter, compass and steady pacing can produce a decent usable map.
Let's hope said minefield is clearly marked on whatever map one chooses.
<removes tongue from cheek>
ISTR several prominent military and intelligence facilities failed to make it to some maps---it must have been foggy when the OS guys went out. They probably didn't see the minefields either.
On Wed, 22 Sep 2004 13:50:42 +0100, "Colin Blackburn" <[email hidden]> wrote (more or less):
Quoted message said:
Colin Blackburn said:
The British Orienteering Federation says:
"Note that the Ordnance Survey has copyright on all material produced by them, so any map based, however indirectly, on OS material will be in breach of copyright unless it is licensed by them, and the appropriate royalty is paid. This is likely to apply to most orienteering maps, including orienteering maps based on previous orienteering maps."
The "indirectly" there involves using a paper OS map to go out into the field as a basis for doing the surveying process yourself.
And the OS says, in relation to using their maps as base maps to create new maps for publication:
"Redrawn maps (also called based on) are maps which are made from our maps but completely redrawn to suit your needs. They can be drawn or compiled with reference to Ordnance Survey maps but are not exact or facsimile copies and do not look like the Ordnance Survey product."
What happens if you redraw from an old (and therefore out-of-copyright) OS map?
How could the OS tell the difference between that and redrawing from a current map?
(assuming it's for a section of road/track that hasn't substantiually altered in recent decades)
Quoted message said:
Redrawing a map is category B copying a map as far as the OS's licensing is concerned. Category B licences are cheaper than category A licences (for facsimile copying.)
What happens if you redraw from an old (and therefore out-of-copyright) OS map?
Nothing, as long as the map is over 50 years old.
Quoted message said:
How could the OS tell the difference between that and redrawing from a current map?
I have no idea.
The copyright and licensing rules are ridiculous and probably unenforceable at many levels. However, the rules are there and the OS will take action if they consider they have a case (as one poster is testament to.)
As are their prices I might add. We are currently applying for planning permission for a domestic windcharger (don't mention the T word!) Our council requires us to send 6 copies of a ground plan at 1:2500 scale---showing adjoining properties. Ignoring the fact that the council doesn't understand what adjoining means, the map we were asked to submit would have cost us £72 for one copy. Making photocopies of this map would be against copyright restrictions but we could buy additional copies at 20% of that price, thus 6 copies would cost us £144. Bizarrely the council can sell us the required maps for £18 (for all 6). However this falls under a map return scheme where we can only buy the maps from the council if we immediately send tham back to the council. Why the council can't cut out the post office's role in this I don'y know.
The OS baffles me but I still love maps, even theirs.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing anything morally or ethically wrong
too bloody true, who paid for all the surveying and production of OS maps in the first place??? It pisses me off to have OS demand even more money for their work when we have already paid for the stuff in the first place. USGS maps are free on t'internet... OS's pricing is a bugger.
Let's hope said minefield is clearly marked on whatever map one chooses.
<removes tongue from cheek>
ISTR several prominent military and intelligence facilities failed to make it to some maps---it must have been foggy when the OS guys went out. They probably didn't see the minefields either.
When I was a Venture Scout some many years ago, one of our leaders worked for the MOD in some mapping role. He used to blag maps from work, to the untrained eye the same as 1:50000 OS maps, but with,umm, interesting additions.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing anything morally or ethically wrong
too bloody true, who paid for all the surveying and production of OS maps in the first place??? It pisses me off to have OS demand even more money for their work when we have already paid for the stuff in the first place. USGS maps are free on t'internet... OS's pricing is a bugger.
1. Click on "Get-a-map" 2. Tap in a 2, 4, 6, 8 or 10 digit grid reference 3. Right click on map centre 4. Save as... 5. Repeat from stage 2 === 6. Use an image editing program to stitch the portions of the map together 7. Print 8. Laminate (optional) 9. Use as desired
I suppose you think that cars should be able to use the roads for free too.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing anything morally or ethically wrong
too bloody true, who paid for all the surveying and production of OS maps in the first place??? It pisses me off to have OS demand even more money for their work when we have already paid for the stuff in the first place. USGS maps are free on t'internet... OS's pricing is a bugger.
Tony B
and have you seen how much profit they make, to reinvest of course.
I suppose you think that cars should be able to use the roads for free too.
Conversly, do you think bicycles should have to pay to use roads?
As for OS, I don't mean free, I mean not pay twice... anyhow, there is a good argument for taxing motor vehicles to curb usage, I wouldn't have though that was an issue with maps. :-) I can see why they want to charge to cover printing, distribution etc. but once bought, what's the problem? Sure, someone COULD copy the paper map and use it rather than buy another, but I wouldn't have thought it was a huge loss for them.
As a f'rinstance on how daft it is, in Memory Map Navigator one is allowed to print off OS copy but only on A4 - A3 or larger is restricted. What's that all about then?
"MSeries" <[email hidden]> wrote in message news:[email hidden]...
I have been thinking about describing my favourite rides on my website, obviously including a map would beneficial. I use OS maps so it would be best to scan the relevant parts and superimpose my route on it. I understand that copying an OS map is illegal for most purposes so I emailed them to check. To do what I want would mean I need to buy a licence for £47.50+VAT. Stuff that, I'll draw them myself !
I would say that if it's just a hobby site then go ahead and do the maps, and if you are unlucky enough to get a "strongly worded letter" from OS then rethink. This is totally different from the AA case where they were making big $$ from someone elses work, so OS should very rightly come after them for $$$compensation.
I suppose you think that cars should be able to use the roads for free too.
Conversly, do you think bicycles should have to pay to use roads?
As for OS, I don't mean free, I mean not pay twice... anyhow, there is a good argument for taxing motor vehicles to curb usage, I wouldn't have though that was an issue with maps. :-)
It occured to me, as I drove home today, that if car usage were successfully reduced, everyone who doesn't drive would end up paying more tax, as cars and car related bits and bobs contribute a fair bit of tax revenue.
Don't get me wrong, I don't think you're doing anything morally or ethically wrong
too bloody true, who paid for all the surveying and production of OS maps in the first place??? It pisses me off to have OS demand even more money for their work when we have already paid for the stuff in the first place. USGS maps are free on t'internet... OS's pricing is a bugger.
and have you seen how much profit they make, to reinvest of course.
I think that's an irrelevance. What is the overall cost/benefit to the economy as a whole to have the Ordnance Survey (and the Hydrographic Office) 'profit centres'? I suspect looking at the economy as a whole this has a negative impact on industry generally which greatly outweighs any actual saving made by the treasury. Conversely, US industry greatly benefits from the ready availability of free, high quality maps.
I suppose you think that cars should be able to use the roads for free too.
Conversly, do you think bicycles should have to pay to use roads?
As for OS, I don't mean free, I mean not pay twice... anyhow, there is a good argument for taxing motor vehicles to curb usage, I wouldn't have though that was an issue with maps. :-)
It occured to me, as I drove home today, that if car usage were successfully reduced, everyone who doesn't drive would end up paying more tax, as cars and car related bits and bobs contribute a fair bit of tax revenue.
Or less tax, since car tax does not pay for the wear and tear to the roads that the car causes, so the road maintenance bill would fall drastically.
