4WDs - High and Mighty

[Rainbow Warrior]

John Doe <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> : Many of those people may use them just for towing, can't beat a 4x4 when
a
> 2
> : tonne trailer on the back gets a sway happening. Many also find them
good
> : for packing kids & stuff in, boot space is huge, like comparing a
> Kingswood
> : panelvan to a wagon. Great at pulling tree stumps out and towing car trailers or trailers full
> : of mates furniture moving house too, just a
> great
> : multipurpose vehicle compared to a sedan which is only ok at carrying people.
> :
> : Pat
>
> I have to disagree. I find them cramped compared to the standard family wagon.

Was passenger the whole trip in the backseat of an 85 Patrol to Cape york and back no problems,
riden in the third row seats of one plenty of times plenty of room how's the third row seating in a
Falcodore?

> No rear leg room and the rear luggage space is woeful for the exterior size.

Wheel a fully assembled 4 burner BBQ into the boot of a Falcodore and repeat that statement.

I also would be one that would be strongly lobbying to ban
> any passenger vehicle that was dragging 2 tonnes along behind it.

Works Cherry picker, 1.5 tonne, had it behind my Econovan once, but wouldn't make 5th. Was a bit
slow going to Bundaburg on the back of the old 75 series trayback diesel Landcruiser, but wouldn't
have wanted anything lighter when it got out of shape a couple of times, more power could have been
handy though.

Lighting plant trailer behind of my V8 Rangie 1.4 tonne, no problems overtaking still. Hilux & car
trailer behind of my Rangie, your guess? EJ Holden & car trailer behind of my 4cyl 1968 Landy, still
made 4th gear too. 2 Horses in a float trailer ain't light either.

> Is it legal to tow such a heavy load without a special licence with a passenger vehicle?

You're allowed to tow legally in most states 1.5 times the weight of the towing vehicle.

> Do you have a bull bar as well?

Yep, aluminium can strength alloy too, straightened it twice already.

Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/

 

[Malvern_star]

Forestry fire trails for clubs and individuals with permits, beach driving/fishing at Moreton,
Stradbroke & Fraser Islands mudracing & camping on private properties or commercial 4x4 park's
(which at last count numbered 12 parks within 2 hours of Brisbane).

And if you ever looked at the beach after 100 4x4's have driven down it after the next tide
you wouldn't find a clue they had been there. As far as bush tracks go, some greenies have no
idea how much actual bush there is out there and that 50km of 2metre wide track in a 800
hectare property is peanuts. We don't go running over trees to make new tracks everytime we go
offroad, as we actually find the more wear on a particular section of track the more
interesting it becomes.

Consider the damage done by "vandals" pushing over trees for football fields, shopping centres,
houses & racetracks as well perhaps.

Illegal use of motor vehicles happens a lot more on the road than off.

Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/ [/B]

+1

Ditto to that

Funny how pseudo greenies(above) are very selective in whom they brand as a 'vandal'. They display an arrogant , self righteous attitude and contempt toward people who use the bush as a means of income or recreation , yet they seem to ignore activities and policies which are outright destructive such as urbanisation , and the push for massive population.
These tyrants have no interest whatsoever in conserving the bush. They don't use it , they don't sleep in it , ride in it , drive or work in it. The last people you'll see at a clean-up-Australia day is one of these 'pretend' "4 wheeldrives shouldn't be in the bush" greenies.
They should get out in the bush more often . There are 1000s of kms of bush tracks which can 'legally' be driven on with 4wds.

People who use the bush for recreation , love the bush . We want as much of it as possible , and we want it to stay forever.
These self righteous psuedo greens want to stop everyone else from enjoying nature . They can't stand the fact that people can camp out in a wilderness for FREE or ride a mountain bike or drive a fourwheel drive though a track without the restraints of commercialism.
These 'anti 4x4 ers' should go lean over a barb wire fence an d let a landcruiser f##k some sense into them.

 

[Trevor S]

Malvern_star <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]: <snip>

> nature . They can't stand the fact that people can camp out in a wilderness for FREE or ride a
> mountain bike or drive a fourwheel drive though a track without the restraints of commercialism.
> These 'anti 4x4 ers' should go lean over a barb wire fence an d let a landcruiser f##k some sense
> into them.

I agree with the sentiment, we are genuine greenies IMO, the unfortunate thing is "we", the genuine
users of public land, are unorganised and at each otheres throats. Instead of being mindful of other
users you often see them not wanting other groups in there. I ride a registered motorbike on trails
in the bush, the same ones used by 4WD's etc, lots of my freinds do the same, they hate 4WD's cause
of the track damge they do and the danger they pose because to motorcyclists because they are slow
and cumbersome. I am trying to overcome their predjuice

I also MTB off road, these guys don't want motorbikes or 4WDs there, the hikers don't want the MTB
guys there... sigh....

We need to band together to ensure the Government is not subjugated into denying us access forever.
eg Wet Tropics legislation is nasty bit of gear that does not directly impact you that far south as
it stops at Townsville but it prohibits access accross SF's and Nat Parks in areas that it covers,
eg CREB track will be closed etc etc

Perhaps we spend our spare time in the bush so much enjoying it, that we don't spend the time
ensuring we presever our "right" to actually be there. We spend no time campaigning or on advocacy
but one day we will wake up and there will be no where to enjoy it anymore.

The enviro-nazi's seem to spend little or no time in the bush and have laods of free time to
campaign to keep everyone out

Trevor S

 

[Malvern_star]

Originally posted by Trevor S
Malvern_star <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]: <snip>

> nature . They can't stand the fact that people can camp out in a wilderness for FREE or ride a
> mountain bike or drive a fourwheel drive though a track without the restraints of commercialism.
> These 'anti 4x4 ers' should go lean over a barb wire fence an d let a landcruiser f##k some sense
> into them.

I agree with the sentiment, we are genuine greenies IMO, the unfortunate thing is "we", the genuine
users of public land, are unorganised and at each otheres throats. Instead of being mindful of other
users you often see them not wanting other groups in there. I ride a registered motorbike on trails
in the bush, the same ones used by 4WD's etc, lots of my freinds do the same, they hate 4WD's cause
of the track damge they do and the danger they pose because to motorcyclists because they are slow
and cumbersome. I am trying to overcome their predjuice

I also MTB off road, these guys don't want motorbikes or 4WDs there, the hikers don't want the MTB
guys there... sigh....

We need to band together to ensure the Government is not subjugated into denying us access forever.
eg Wet Tropics legislation is nasty bit of gear that does not directly impact you that far south as
it stops at Townsville but it prohibits access accross SF's and Nat Parks in areas that it covers,
eg CREB track will be closed etc etc

Perhaps we spend our spare time in the bush so much enjoying it, that we don't spend the time
ensuring we presever our "right" to actually be there. We spend no time campaigning or on advocacy
but one day we will wake up and there will be no where to enjoy it anymore.

The enviro-nazi's seem to spend little or no time in the bush and have laods of free time to
campaign to keep everyone out

Trevor S

Hi Trevor
I used to live in Townsville mate . I know what is going on up there. I hope CREB track isn't closed as it is far nicer than the coastal road IMO. I drove across it in 97 last.
The closure of Bluewater state forest really got up my nose as it was the most beautiful area near Townsville aside from Paluma.
They closed the road going into the Bluewater state forest and threatened people with draconian penalties if they dared to ride/walk or drive up into the mountains there. I used to ride the MTB and camp up there all the time , however the last time I was there , about two years after they closed the road , a huge amount of forest had been bulldozed , yet about a few hundred metres before , is a sign 'wet tropics world heritage area' . Ha .Yeah right What a bloody scam!!!

 

[Kevcat]

> >
> > Just what is this "off road" business all about?

buy/hire one and find out go with someone who does it very rewarding to get away from the urban
noise and away from the usual picnicing hoards at local parks

the Forestry has a permit system for motor vehicles and bikes, pushbikes, horses or hikers each have
different areas of access, the non motorised modes can go almost anywhere

the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules apply, even speed limits(cops
do use radars on the beach)

Kev

 

[Peter Signorini]

"kevcat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules apply, even speed
> limits(cops do use radars on the beach)

You're obviously talking about a very different part of the country. As far as I'm aware it is
illegal to drive vehicles on beaches throughout Victoria.

Cheers Peter

 

[Trevor S]

Malvern_star <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]: <Snip>

>
> Hi Trevor I used to live in Townsville mate . I know what is going on up there. I hope CREB track
> isn't closed as it is far nicer than the coastal road IMO. I drove across it in 97 last.

It was originally bulit for access to power lines for maintenance (Cairns Regional Electricy Board
is the CREB acronym, as it was originally called), the power lins have been realigned, ERGON have no
use for the track, QPWS want no one there and don't want to maintain it. There are grous working
actively to ensure it remaines open... but...

> The closure of Bluewater state forest really got up my nose as it was the most beautiful area near
> Townsville

Wet Tropics legilation shut that, no permit through the SF because it is deemed Wet Tropics. That's
what irks me, you can't get access along the graded and miantained road, I am not talkif about
carving new trails through virgin rainforest ! You can now get to the top of the range but the road
is still closed after that.

> aside from Paluma.

The road around the back of the Paluma Dam (the one that goes to Hidden Valley, Blenhems Track, is
closed for the same reason, Wet Tropics, there is a graded miantained road with no access allowed
!!! The local MTB club guys finally got access last year but they are the only ones. I ride my MTB
through there on occasion, in summer it is pleasently cool up there, then ride down to Hidden Valley
and back up (pant pant pant)...

> They closed the road going into the Bluewater state forest and threatened people with draconian
> penalties if they dared to ride/walk or drive up into the mountains there.

The track to the top is open again but it stops at the top, no access past that !

> I used to ride the MTB and camp up there all the time , however the last time I was there , about
> two years after they closed the road , a huge amount of forest had been bulldozed , yet about a
> few hundred metres before , is a sign 'wet tropics world heritage area' . Ha .Yeah right
> What a bloody scam!!!

Same thing at Paluma Dam, they re-did the camping area near the Dam, bulldozed the **** out of the
forest, where the signs are that say Wet Tropcs Protected Area <ohhhh the irony> to make a car park
for day trippers. Not in a 100 years of 4-WD's, motorcycles and MTB riders could that amount of
damage be done.

As an aside, the Army have access to the Bluewater Range to bomb the **** out of it in the Wet
Tropic area and run over everything in the APC's. These guys can do serious damage, they don't stick
to the beaten track. I had a heated debate with QPWS about the irony of this, water of a ducks back,
it's all legal and that's the only thing that counts according to them, you want legal access to Joe
Q Public ? tough **** pal

Trevor S

 

[Rhubarb]

"Peter Signorini" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "kevcat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules apply, even speed
> > limits(cops do use radars on the beach)
>
> You're obviously talking about a very different part of the country. As
far
> as I'm aware it is illegal to drive vehicles on beaches throughout
Victoria.
>

At last count, as far as I'm aware there were 7 other states and territories other than Victoria.

 

[Malvern_star]

Originally posted by Trevor S
Malvern_star <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]: <Snip>

>
> Hi Trevor I used to live in Townsville mate . I know what is going on up there. I hope CREB track
> isn't closed as it is far nicer than the coastal road IMO. I drove across it in 97 last.

It was originally bulit for access to power lines for maintenance (Cairns Regional Electricy Board
is the CREB acronym, as it was originally called), the power lins have been realigned, ERGON have no
use for the track, QPWS want no one there and don't want to maintain it. There are grous working
actively to ensure it remaines open... but...

> The closure of Bluewater state forest really got up my nose as it was the most beautiful area near
> Townsville

Wet Tropics legilation shut that, no permit through the SF because it is deemed Wet Tropics. That's
what irks me, you can't get access along the graded and miantained road, I am not talkif about
carving new trails through virgin rainforest ! You can now get to the top of the range but the road
is still closed after that.

> aside from Paluma.

The road around the back of the Paluma Dam (the one that goes to Hidden Valley, Blenhems Track, is
closed for the same reason, Wet Tropics, there is a graded miantained road with no access allowed
!!! The local MTB club guys finally got access last year but they are the only ones. I ride my MTB
through there on occasion, in summer it is pleasently cool up there, then ride down to Hidden Valley
and back up (pant pant pant)...

> They closed the road going into the Bluewater state forest and threatened people with draconian
> penalties if they dared to ride/walk or drive up into the mountains there.

The track to the top is open again but it stops at the top, no access past that !

> I used to ride the MTB and camp up there all the time , however the last time I was there , about
> two years after they closed the road , a huge amount of forest had been bulldozed , yet about a
> few hundred metres before , is a sign 'wet tropics world heritage area' . Ha .Yeah right
> What a bloody scam!!!

Same thing at Paluma Dam, they re-did the camping area near the Dam, bulldozed the **** out of the
forest, where the signs are that say Wet Tropcs Protected Area <ohhhh the irony> to make a car park
for day trippers. Not in a 100 years of 4-WD's, motorcycles and MTB riders could that amount of
damage be done.

As an aside, the Army have access to the Bluewater Range to bomb the **** out of it in the Wet
Tropic area and run over everything in the APC's. These guys can do serious damage, they don't stick
to the beaten track. I had a heated debate with QPWS about the irony of this, water of a ducks back,
it's all legal and that's the only thing that counts according to them, you want legal access to Joe
Q Public ? tough **** pal

Trevor S

I really miss that place (North Qland). Shame about the Hidden valley road closure , I used to MTB and 4x4 in that region as well.
Once I was riding down the closed Crystal Creek road at the bottom of Paluma. A QPWS ranger bailed me up and threatened me with a $10,000 fine for being there , I just laughed at them and stated in a hyperthetical manner that I could beat the **** out of them , put them in hospital and not receive anywhere near such a harsh penalty.(I'd never actually do such a thing of course ) , but it really got my goat. And you notice that they don't give you any reason for these closures of public land.
You and I know the answer to - WHY??? But it would be nice to hear it from them plain as day and to have a little video camera or tape recorder.
Good to hear that you can at least drive up to Bluewater range now . That would be because of public preasure and 'sick and tiredness' of always building barriers across the little side track at the bottom of the hill. (which my old landcruiser transversed many times)
That road eventually goes all the way to Starr river (I think) but it's one helluva ride I've never been to the end of it and I rode for a full day starting at the bottom of the hill.
I drove the landcruiser through Keelbottom creek and across the next creek but didn't go much further than that.
Didn't take the army long to completely trash the road and make it impassable too.
But...
It's still a great place and I hope to get up there soon.

 

[Trevor S]

Malvern_star <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:

<snip>

> It's still a great place and I hope to get up there soon.

http://www.rockwheelers.webcentral.com.au/

Trevor S

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

Rhubarb <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Peter Signorini" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "kevcat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules apply, even speed
> > > limits(cops do use radars on the beach)
> >
> > You're obviously talking about a very different part of the country. As
> far
> > as I'm aware it is illegal to drive vehicles on beaches throughout
> Victoria.
>
> At last count, as far as I'm aware there were 7 other states and
territories
> other than Victoria.

Not too many beaches you can drive on in ACT I suspect

--
Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/

 

[Dave Horsfall]

On Wed, 9 Jul 2003, Rainbow Warrior wrote:

> > At last count, as far as I'm aware there were 7 other states and territories other than
> > Victoria.
>
> Not too many beaches you can drive on in ACT I suspect

Jervis Bay.

-- Dave

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

Peter Signorini <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "kevcat" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > the beaches with public access are classed as roads and all road rules apply, even speed
> > limits(cops do use radars on the beach)
>
> You're obviously talking about a very different part of the country. As
far
> as I'm aware it is illegal to drive vehicles on beaches throughout
Victoria.
>
> Cheers Peter

I thought it was illegal in all Australia till I moved to QLD, then found out there were beaches
back in NSW near Newcastle and on the far north & south coasts. 80% of the population don't know
about them which is why they're such good spots to camp.

Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/

 

[cfsmtb]

Originally posted by John Doe
[If I was to be hit by a car (again) then I would prefer to be hit by an excel that crumples up like
a coke can with the chance of rolling up onto the bonnet than a 4wd with a bull bar at head height
with a large chance of going underneath.

Pete [/B]

Correct, speaking as a cyclist who's been pinballed out of the way by a 4WD (impromptu handstand & forward roll included), I would sooner prefer a Datsun 180B, if the process had to be repeated. Actually I don't want the process ever to be repeated.

Another point, ever witnessed a large 4WD attempt a turning circle with inexperienced driver?

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

Ray Peace <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Greetings, I was cleaned up by one of those mini 4WD's (a Honda CRV
in this case) just over a year ago. The driver went through a stop sign. The fact is when 1.5 tonnes
of metal collects you at high speed you are injured without question, and sometimes dead. With
drivers as thick as the one that ran me down (Were you riding on the footpath she asked when she hit
me in the roadway) the sad fact is that some collisions are almost inevitable.
> Regards, Ray.

And Commodores actually are heavier than CRV's. Wouldn't have mattered if she was in a Barina, she
still would have hit you.

--
Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/

>
> cfsmtb wrote:
>
> John Doe wrote: > [If I was to be hit by a car (again) then I would
prefer to be hit by an > excel that crumples up like a coke can with the chance of rolling up > onto
the bonnet than a 4wd with a bull bar at head height with a large > chance of going underneath. >
PeteCorrect, speaking as a cyclist who's been pinballed out of the way by a4WD (impromptu handstand
& forward roll included), I would sooner prefera Datsun 180B, if the process had to be repeated.
Actually I don't wantthe process ever to be repeated.Another point, ever witnessed a large 4WD
attempt a turning circle withinexperienced driver? --
> --------------------------< Posted via cyclingforums.comhttp://www.cyclingforums.com

 

[G]

Rainbow Warrior <[email protected]> wrote:

> Ray Peace <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Greetings, I was cleaned up by one of those mini 4WD's (a Honda CRV
> in this case) just over a year ago. The driver went through a stop sign. The fact is when 1.5
> tonnes of metal collects you at high speed you are injured without question, and sometimes dead.
> With drivers as thick as the one that ran me down (Were you riding on the footpath she asked when
> she hit me in the roadway) the sad fact is that some collisions are almost inevitable.
> > Regards, Ray.
>
> And Commodores actually are heavier than CRV's. Wouldn't have mattered if she was in a Barina, she
> still would have hit you.

Bullocks. Commodes and Barinas have low noses that tend to go under a cyclist. The bullnose of a 4wd
is a straight ram into your torso (they are also a head height ram for car drivers, but thats
another story).

GK

 

[Rainbow Warrior]

g <[email protected]> wrote in message news:1fxzg06.fw6wgw1l2wr28N%[email protected]...
> Rainbow Warrior <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Ray Peace <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Greetings, I was cleaned up by one of those mini 4WD's (a Honda
CRV
> > in this case) just over a year ago. The driver went through a stop sign.
The
> > fact is when 1.5 tonnes of metal collects you at high speed you are
injured
> > without question, and sometimes dead. With drivers as thick as the one
that
> > ran me down (Were you riding on the footpath she asked when she hit me
in
> > the roadway) the sad fact is that some collisions are almost inevitable.
> > > Regards, Ray.
> >
> > And Commodores actually are heavier than CRV's. Wouldn't have mattered if she was in a Barina,
> > she still would have hit
you.
>
> Bullocks. Commodes and Barinas have low noses that tend to go under a cyclist. The bullnose of a
> 4wd is a straight ram into your torso (they are also a head height ram for car drivers, but thats
> another story).
>
> GK
And Commodores actually are heavier than CRV's. I didn't mention their nose shape, you were
concerned with their weight Wouldn't have mattered if she was driving a Barina, she still would
have hit you.

--
Pat Brisbane, Australia http://homepage.powerup.com.au/~mangey/