4x4 Tax



Alistair Gunn wrote:
> Ambrose Nankivell twisted the electrons to say:
>> 47p per litre duty on fossil fuels. (27p per litre for fuels of
>> biological origin)
>
> Did he said he would change the rules on straight vegetable oil? Or
> will that still be treated as dino-diesel and thus liable for the
> 47.1p/litre?

I think they'd already actually changed that. Last time I read, SVO was fine
if you could use plankton-diesel without switching, or if you started on
plankton-diesel and switched.

This was different to the first time I read it.

Do you use vegetable oil mixes? Once I've got my round tuits all in a line
so I can take the legal obligation to send off a tax return off every single
month in my stride, I'm intending to use 80% plankton-diesel, 20% off the
shelf vegetable oil, but I'd be interested to try 20% plankton-petrol, 80%
veg, which I'm given to believe works. I've got a Xantia Turbodiesel (with
the XUD engine), if you have feedback.

Cheers
--
Ambrose
 
Simon Brooke wrote:
> in message <[email protected]>, Ambrose Nankivell
> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>
>> MichaelB wrote:
>>> Just zis Guy, you know? Wrote:
>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:48:47 +0000, Phil Clarke
>>>> <[email protected]> said in
>>>> <[email protected]>:
>>>>
>>>>> It was widely reported as a tax on 4x4's because, IMHO, a new tax
>>>>> on Lamborghinis and Aston Martins wouldnt sell as many newspapers.
>>>>
>>>> Is the right answer.
>>>
>>> I dont think so. There are far more antisocial 4x4s than
>>> Lambourghinis on the roads. That is the right answer.
>>
>> Please state your reasoning for 4x4s being antisocial. You seem to be
>> taking this as axiomatic.
>
> He didn't say that. He didn't say that /all/ 4x4s are antisocial. He
> said that the subset of 4x4s which are antisocial is greater than the
> total number of Lamborghinis, which seems to me incontrovertible. Of
> course he may /believe/ that all 4x4s are antisocial, but he didn't
> say so.

Oops. I guess logic flames are as prone to poor logic as spelling flames
[are to poor spelling].
--
Ambrose
 
MichaelB wrote:

> I will try to be more civil from now on.

nice one.

> I know the best way to convince someone is not to be aggressive
> and crude in your arguement ....

fwiw (general comment, not a tip for anyone in particular) IMNSHE the
way to convince people on the internet is to be consistently open,
honest and somewhere closer to humble than egotistical - and expect
people to gradually accept your way of thinking, which may not be to the
exclusion of their way, and expect it to happen over a period of time.

> I'd rather just cause an arguement and have a rant.

and why not? its fun. :D


> it shouldn't matter how well written an arguenment
> is but how well formed it is.

indeed, but usenet is a tricky mistress and without the benefit of
context it can take time & thought to make a clear point - especially
when there are easy conclusions for readers to latch onto. If you cant
make the effort to make a clear case, don't expect people to make the
effort to reread posts and cut through the delivery to the message.

> They are snobbish about possesions and
> wealth and I am snobbish about intellectual ability.

:D which is easier to gain, I wonder? I suspect (I'll let you know when
I'm a rich genius) that a surfeit of either leads to a more chilled
approach to one's blessings.

Did you see the TV series "Beauty and the Geek"? What I found
interesting was the out-of-your-league girls were relatively down to
earth, blase about their looks and embarrased by their relative lack of
intellect, & the geeks were overtly proud of their lack of social
confirmity etc and frankly sniggerng & *****y about their relative learning.


> The thing is you only need a 4x4 because there are 4x4s on the road.

still dont need one, unless you're likely to be in a crash. The vast
majority of 2-party incidents (there are very few "accidents") involve
two parties at fault - a **** party, and a party who could've
compensated for the **** party but didn't.

> I dont like people so I dont care if they wipe themselves out :)

:D
 
Ambrose Nankivell twisted the electrons to say:
> Do you use vegetable oil mixes?

Don't actually own a car anymore (couldn't use it to commute to work[1]
and didn't need it to go shopping). I did know someone who was
successfully using SVO (cut 50:50 with dino-diesel) in a Mk2 Golf a
while back. The closest I got was filling up the tank on my n/a diesel
Landie with Rix 'BioBlend 5' a few years back.

I was just curious is HMR&C had changed their policy about SVO ...

[1] No on-site parking for cars, only bicycles and motorbikes.
--
These opinions might not even be mine ...
Let alone connected with my employer ...
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 16:36:50 -0000, Dave Larrington
<[email protected]> said in
<[email protected]>:

>What I said about Honda UK's web site? I take it back. Lamborghini's
>is worse. EXACTLY much worse.

Ar.

Strolling about London Town Devine [(c) D Larrintown] t'other day I
spotted two new Range Rovers back to back. One was in a fetching
shade of cowshit green and clearly had the Sloane Pack (Barbour
jacket, green wellies, labrador etc.). The other was black, smoked
windows, 93" five-spoke alloys with rubber bands instead of tyres,
chromed air vents in the wings - what must surely be sold in the
dealerships as the Bling Pack (or perhaaps you click "Pimp Me!" on the
order form). Butt neither was half as sad as the appalling thing
which is the Porsche Cayenne, a VW with a price tag inflated to match
its bloated lines. Surely it would be cheaper and more pleasant to
have the words "fashion victim" embedded on your forehead in diamonds?

Guy
--
May contain traces of irony. Contents liable to settle after posting.
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

85% of helmet statistics are made up, 69% of them at CHS, Puget Sound
 
MichaelB wrote:
> I hear Gordon Brown and his aides are likely to be putting up 4x4 road
> tax today.

Put it up £5 on my old land-rover to 170 a year, my wifes 1.6 zafira
will cost her 190, rather missing the point?
 
in message <[email protected]>, Ambrose Nankivell
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Do you use vegetable oil mixes? Once I've got my round tuits all in a
> line so I can take the legal obligation to send off a tax return off
> every single month in my stride, I'm intending to use 80%
> plankton-diesel, 20% off the shelf vegetable oil, but I'd be interested
> to try 20% plankton-petrol, 80% veg, which I'm given to believe works.
> I've got a Xantia Turbodiesel (with the XUD engine), if you have
> feedback.

I have an engineering acquaintance up the street who runs his Rover 400
series diesel on 100% recycled chipshop oil. He has some device of his
own making which purifies the oil in some way I don't understand, but he
doesn't add any mineral oil. The car runs fine but smells oddly of
frying. I could put you in touch if you were interested.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

:: Wisdom is better than weapons of war ::
:: Ecclesiastes 9:18 ::
 
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 03:08:57 +1100, MichaelB wrote:

Why do you insist on using 4x4 in such a pejorative manner? The bosses
rav4 does over 40mpg. Subaru justy over 45.

Where's the problem with that. Are you offended by these vehicles as well???

You're still a t*ss*r, and looking stupider by the minute.

Keep it up, we all want to see how deep the hole gets before you give up.
 
Steve wrote:

> Why do you insist on using 4x4 in such a pejorative manner? The
> bosses rav4 does over 40mpg. Subaru justy over 45.
>
> You're still a t*ss*r, and looking stupider by the minute.

Is it not self-evident that *in this context* 4x4 refers to
stereotypical resource consuming road hogging never-seen-dirt school run
monsters?
 
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 20:29:32 +0000, Ambrose Nankivell wrote:

> Simon Brooke wrote:
>> in message <[email protected]>, Ambrose Nankivell
>> ('[email protected]') wrote:
>>
>>> MichaelB wrote:
>>>> Just zis Guy, you know? Wrote:
>>>>> On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:48:47 +0000, Phil Clarke
>>>>> <[email protected]> said in
>>>>> <[email protected]>:
>>>>>
>>>>>> It was widely reported as a tax on 4x4's because, IMHO, a new tax
>>>>>> on Lamborghinis and Aston Martins wouldnt sell as many newspapers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is the right answer.
>>>>
>>>> I dont think so. There are far more antisocial 4x4s than
>>>> Lambourghinis on the roads. That is the right answer.
>>>
>>> Please state your reasoning for 4x4s being antisocial. You seem to be
>>> taking this as axiomatic.
>>
>> He didn't say that. He didn't say that /all/ 4x4s are antisocial. He
>> said that the subset of 4x4s which are antisocial is greater than the
>> total number of Lamborghinis, which seems to me incontrovertible. Of
>> course he may /believe/ that all 4x4s are antisocial, but he didn't
>> say so.
>
> Oops. I guess logic flames are as prone to poor logic as spelling flames
> [are to poor spelling].

But what about the subset of Lambos that are 4x4's?
 
On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:13:44 +0000, Phil Clarke wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>
>> Why do you insist on using 4x4 in such a pejorative manner? The
> > bosses rav4 does over 40mpg. Subaru justy over 45.
>>
>> You're still a t*ss*r, and looking stupider by the minute.
>
> Is it not self-evident that *in this context* 4x4 refers to
> stereotypical resource consuming road hogging never-seen-dirt school run
> monsters?

Maybe so if you live in the centre of a city and only meet these
stereotypes. Maybe some of us don't and actually find the generalisation
really offensive. Which could just be why I keep banging on about it. Why
not take a bit more effort and use a more exact phrase and stop offending
those of us who both care about the environment and own a 4x4. That's 4
wheels, 4 wheel drive. Nothing more.

It shouldn't be difficult for the OP who claims intelligence to manage
that.
 
In article <[email protected]>, Tony Raven (junk@raven-
family.com) wrote:
> Steve wrote:
> >
> > But what about the subset of Lambos that are 4x4's?
> >
>
> ITYM "subsets":
> http://www.lambocars.com/lm/lm001.htm
> http://www.samedeutz-fahr.com/lamborghini/

Not to mention:
<URL:http://www.wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/automotive/Lamborghini%
20Murcielago%201%20-%20800x600.jpg>
and
<URL:http://www.wallpaper.net.au/wallpaper/automotive/Lamborghini%
20Gallardo%20Yellow%20-%20800x600.jpg>

--
Dave Larrington - <http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/>
While you were out at the Rollright Stones, I came and set fire to your
Shed.
 
in message <[email protected]>, Phil Clarke
('[email protected]') wrote:

> Steve wrote:
>
>> Why do you insist on using 4x4 in such a pejorative manner? The
> > bosses rav4 does over 40mpg. Subaru justy over 45.
>>
>> You're still a t*ss*r, and looking stupider by the minute.
>
> Is it not self-evident that *in this context* 4x4 refers to
> stereotypical resource consuming road hogging never-seen-dirt school
> run monsters?

If you mean Chelsea Tractor, say Chelsea Tractor. '4x4' includes
everything from a Fiat Panda to a Unimog and beyond; many 4x4s are
reasonably economical in the context for which they were designed, and
some are absolutely economical relative to any motor vehicle of any
type. There are still people in Britain who live miles from the nearest
metalled road, and by no means all of them are rich; for them, a 4x4 is
a reasonable choice. Other people need to be able to carry tools and
equipment to where they're working in forest and upland areas - I do
myself from time to time. Again, a 4x4 is not a luxury in this
situation.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; It's dangerous to be right when the government is wrong.
;; Voltaire RIP Dr David Kelly 1945-2004
 
Steve wrote:
> On Thu, 23 Mar 2006 08:13:44 +0000, Phil Clarke wrote:

> > Is it not self-evident that *in this context* 4x4 refers to
> > stereotypical resource consuming road hogging never-seen-dirt school run
> > monsters?

> Maybe so if you live in the centre of a city and only meet these
> stereotypes. Maybe some of us don't and actually find the generalisation
> really offensive. Which could just be why I keep banging on about it. Why
> not take a bit more effort and use a more exact phrase and stop offending
> those of us who both care about the environment and own a 4x4. That's 4
> wheels, 4 wheel drive. Nothing more.

That annoys me too. I have owned 2 4x4s, and used both for off-road
driving. I also lived in towns and cities when I owned them, but they
were no more road-hogs than any other small car - they were both
old-style Fiat Panda 4x4s, one with a 963cc engine and one with a
999cc, and did 40+ miles to the gallon. As when I owned the first one
I lived in Scotland and regularly drove in the Highlands, a small 4x4
was a very useful car to have.
 
MichaelB came up with the following;:

> I re-did my above post why not read it.

cba, mainly 'cos you appear not to be coherent in your arguments.

> Maybe you should tell me why you feel the need to own a big 4x4
> vehicle, the kind I am talking about.

I don't 'need' to own a 4x4, I choose to do so mostly to more easily follow
my and my families hobbies. My 4x4, a '96/97 model 300 Tdi Landrover
Discovery, is by no means a 'big' 4x4 though ... it only has a 2.5 litre
engine, which incidentally means my VED increase is only a fiver ...
thankyou very much Mr Brown ... ;)

The hobbies we indulge in include the organisation, setting up, running of,
and clearing up afterwards of a number of off-road, including though by no
means exclusively mountain biking, sporting events where a 4x4 is a
necessity to transport the trailers full of equipment, both timing and
course laying, that are required. We don't limit ourselves to off-road
though, we also help our local club organise on-road events, and again the
logistical simplicity from owning a large vehicle that can tow a shed-load
of 'stuff' and at the same time carry a number of people, down farm tracks
and across fields is very beneficial.

We also participate/organise/spectate in off-road racing, trials, motorcycle
and bicycle, so a 4x4 allows us to pull a trailer with the bikes on as well
as transport six of us to the events, and our other racing equipment. We
also tow a horse box with horses to other events, as well as using it as
general transportation when needed.

It's also handy to have seven seats for the family and friends.

It's also handy to tow our caravan that also doubles as a
pits/race-control/scrutineering area (with attendant awnings/gazebos etc) at
some events, as well as allowing us to take some time off from work and
events and just go 'away' from civilisation for a while with at least some
of the comforts, like a shower, of home.

.... I also simply like off-roading and am currently in the process of
sourcing an old series 2 or 3 Landrover to 'do up' purely for the purpose.
Should have kept my last one, I guess.

PS, we also have a small car (mainly for the wife to go to work in) and
numerous bicycles, that have all mostly done more mileage through the winter
than the 4x4.

--
Paul ...
(8(|) Homer Rules ..... Doh !!!
 
Simon Brooke wrote:

> If you mean Chelsea Tractor, say Chelsea Tractor. '4x4' includes
> everything from a Fiat Panda to a Unimog and beyond;

Unimog!

Now there's one in the eye for the Hummer drivers. :)

--
Ambrose
 
badger wrote:
> MichaelB wrote:
>> I hear Gordon Brown and his aides are likely to be putting up 4x4
>> road tax today.
>
> Put it up £5 on my old land-rover to 170 a year, my wifes 1.6 zafira
> will cost her 190, rather missing the point?

Well, looked at as a gas guzzler tax, which is what it is, then it's
tolerable. And obviously it only applies to cars made since 2001.

--
Ambrose
 
Ambrose Nankivell wrote:
> badger wrote:
>> Put it up £5 on my old land-rover to 170 a year, my wifes 1.6 zafira
>> will cost her 190, rather missing the point?
>
> Well, looked at as a gas guzzler tax, which is what it is, then it's
> tolerable. And obviously it only applies to cars made since 2001.
>
True, though the monster I saw this morning must be an extreme,
almost 40 feet long (best guess) stretched american 4x4 SUV limo,
more of a bus than a car!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

M
Accident: wind and 4x4
Replies
12
Views
341
UK and Europe
ian henden
I
S
From 4x4 to Prius to Bike.
Replies
0
Views
254
UK and Europe
Simon Mason
S
T
OT: The Archers vs the 4x4
Replies
14
Views
468
UK and Europe
Just zis Guy, you know?
J
B
Nissan 4x4 advert
Replies
93
Views
2K
UK and Europe
Alan Braggins
A
S
9yo cyclist critical condition, 4x4 driver uninjured
Replies
26
Views
1K
UK and Europe
Terry D
T
Top Bottom Back