50 Conditions That Mimic "ADHD"

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Theta, Sep 20, 2003.

  1. CBI

    CBI Guest

    "Seveigny" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > > > Teaching is the only profession I know of where you can be held

    > responsible
    > > > > > > for what happens when you're not there.
    > > > > >
    > > > > > What?
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Medicine (including nursing and pharmacy) Wrong. Nurses are not

    > held
    > > > accountable for what happens on their shift when they are not there.
    > > > Doctors are not held accountable for what happens on their shift when

    > they
    > > > are not there.

    > >
    > > Wrong. I don't even know where to begin on this one. There are many ways
    > > that a doctor can be held responsible for things that happen when he is

    > not
    > > there.

    >
    > Okay, let's leave doctors out the question. How about nurses?


    Doctor writes an order that turns out to be a bad idea, pharmacy fills
    it, medicine aide gives it. The nurse will be held responsible for not
    properly reviewing the order before it was given.

    Nurse tells a patient not to get out of bed without assistance.
    Patient gets up unaided and falls, breaking a hip. Nurse is
    responsible.

    IV infiltrates and causes injury. Nurse will be responsible.

    Family fails to stop at the nurses station and goes right to the loved
    one's room with flowers. The asthma patient in the next bed
    deteriorates.....




    >
    > Incorrect. Most accountants work for accounting firms. The firm hires the
    > junior accountants and places them in support positions for senior
    > accountants. If the junior accountants screw up, they are fired or
    > disciplined.


    BS - in any field screw ups reflect poorly on the managers.


    > >
    > > Yes. Commonly docs that work shifts are expected to find replacements when
    > > they are sick. Docs in private practice often hire "Locum Tenens"
    > > substitutes to take their place and the doc is responsible for what his
    > > replacement does and is expected to know what happened while he was gone.

    >
    > That wasn't the question. Donna asked if you, as an engineer, have to find a
    > substitute, write plans for your substitute to follow, create materials for
    > them to use and be tested on what the client does when you're not there.


    No - the statement was that there was something unusual about having
    to find your own replacement for work. There isn't.


    >
    > How can Doctor X be sued for malpractice if Doctor Z takes out the wrong
    > kidney?



    If doctor Z is under the employ of Dr. X, filling for him, partnered
    with him, or under training from him - he can be.

    --
    CBI, MD
     


  2. Gil

    Gil Guest

    "DeChiera" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Come out, come out where ever you are???? whomever you are ????
    >
    >concatenated
    >
     
  3. Gil

    Gil Guest

    "DeChiera" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Come out, come out where ever you are???? whomever you are ????
    >
    >concatenated
    >
     
  4. Gil

    Gil Guest

    "DeChiera" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Come out, come out where ever you are???? whomever you are ????
    >
    >concatenated>
     
  5. toto

    toto Guest

    On 21 Oct 2003 11:05:32 -0700, [email protected] (CBI) wrote:

    >No - the statement was that there was something unusual about having
    >to find your own replacement for work. There isn't.


    Um, the only fields I know of where it is common are teaching fields.

    In business you don't find a replacement when you are out at all.


    --
    Dorothy

    There is no sound, no cry in all the world
    that can be heard unless someone listens ..

    The Outer Limits
     
  6. "toto" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On 21 Oct 2003 11:05:32 -0700, [email protected] (CBI) wrote:
    >
    > >No - the statement was that there was something unusual about having
    > >to find your own replacement for work. There isn't.

    >
    > Um, the only fields I know of where it is common are teaching fields.
    >
    > In business you don't find a replacement when you are out at all.


    It varies from business to business. I have encountered employers in workers
    compensation investigations where the employer says that if the employee
    wants to come back to the job, they have to find a temporary replacement,
    and if they don't, they willhire a full time replacement. This happens a lot
    in the food service industry.

    Strangely, it also happens to sole practitioner lawyers who get sick. Their
    clients, and the judges, do not want excuses, and want a body in front of
    their bench.
     
  7. On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:38:02 -0400, Mark D Morin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 20 Oct 2003 21:53:49 GMT, [email protected]
    >wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>If Christmas falls on a weekday my pay for that day is 80% my weeks
    >>>pay.

    >>
    >>??? So if your week's pay is $500, you make $400 of it on Christmas?
    >>Doesn't make a lot sense, so I suspect you were trying to say
    >>something else (and failing)?

    >
    >sorry, meant "weak" not "day"


    Or maybe "week" ;-)

    >>Teachers are paid for days worked only. However that pay may be
    >>divided up,

    >
    >and functionally, I still don't see the difference between saying that
    >and saying paid time off...


    If by "functionally" you mean "inaccurately", then I agree with you.
    One may categorize a duck and a chicken as "functionally" the same,
    but that doesn't mean that they are.

    Your argument is equivilent to saying that weekends are paid vacations
    since one is paid by the week (or every two). It may be
    "functionally" the same, but it is, nonetheless inaccurate.
     
  8. On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:10:01 -0400, Mark D Morin
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >no. I am simply pointing out that when I (not you or anyone else) was
    >a teacher, I received the same paycheck every week--vacation or no
    >vacation. I didn't and don't see how that's not a paid vacation


    Then you clearly aren't making an attempt to understand the very clear
    arguments presented here that demonstrated the error in your thinking.

    You earlier accused me of not having an open mind. I submit that
    since you are unwilling to accept the clear evidence put before you
    that indicates you are wrong, that is is, in fact, you who is
    closeminded.

    You have presented no argument based upon objective evidence to
    support your incorrect interpretation. Instead your "argument" relies
    entirely upon a subjective way of looking at reality. In fact, you
    have no argument whatsoever. since to accept your "argument" leads to
    at least one absurd conclusion (a logical disproof): that weekends are
    paid vacations for everyone, a conclusion that would be rejected by
    virtually everyone in the US (at minimum).
     
  9. Joni Rathbun

    Joni Rathbun Guest


    > On Tue, 21 Oct 2003 00:10:01 -0400, Mark D Morin
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >no. I am simply pointing out that when I (not you or anyone else) was
    > >a teacher, I received the same paycheck every week--vacation or no
    > >vacation. I didn't and don't see how that's not a paid vacation


    In 20 years, you're the first "teacher" I've ever known who was paid
    on a weekly basis.
     
  10. On 21 Oct 2003 10:44:15 -0700, [email protected] (CBI) wrote:

    >"Jim Not-From-Here" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>
    >> You are generalizing beyond your data. The fact that the district that
    >> hired you paid you that way does not, in any way, indicated that this is the
    >> general practice. Please remember that there are several thousand different
    >> school districts in this country, and each of them has its own practices.

    >
    >Interesting.....
    >
    >So when you guys talk about how your experience it is "proof." When
    >someone else does it is "generalizing."
    >
    >When you guys say how YOU get paid it is how things are. When someone
    >else does they should remember that things are different all over.
    >
    >Got it.


    Clearly you do not. YOU say one thing and are no longer in the field
    (if you ever were). A dozen of us, still in the field, have said
    something else. You cling to your incorrect interpretation
    nonetheless. Stubborn is the least prejorative adjective I can think
    of to apply to that kind of "thinking".
     
  11. I did try that... I didn't get very far. :( Despite the fact that I can
    get into the hospital with my employee ID when everybody else gets
    searched... Both the pediatric hospital I work for, and our much larger
    affiliate hospital up the street.

    Magi

    DiChiera wrote:
    > "Magi D. Shepley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    >>I actually have a decent insurance plan. One of the benefits of working
    >>for a hospital: my insurance plan is way better here and cheaper than
    >>anything I've ever had before. The problem is getting established as a
    >>"new patient". Most doctors only see new patients on certain days, some
    >>only a couple of times a month. It is very hard to get a new general
    >>physician... and I need one that is willing to work with a specialist
    >>as well.
    >>
    >>Magi
    >>

    >
    >
    > One of the benefits of working for a hospital years ago, was I got to
    > know the doctors and their reputations. Broke bread with them in the
    > cafeteria, played volleyball with the adult leagues, went with friends
    > to Woodstock Country Club in Vermont as husbands played golf ....
    >
    > I'm running away with myself here ... my point being, if you work at
    > the hospital, I'd think you could ask your boss, who they'd go to and
    > if there is anyway to circumvent the usual waiting period? I'm not
    > sure if they are still doing this ... but we were given professional
    > courtesy as employees of the hospital ... came in very handy,
    > especially with any balances after insurances.
    >
    > Leah aka
     
  12. And both of them have been told this by myself as well. In my last
    district, we were paid by the month, at the end of said month. I did
    not receive a check in December. I received a check in November that
    was somewhat larger, and another check in January that was the same as
    the usual (barring the usual $2/check increase, and the $10 subtraction
    for the occupational employment tax).

    Magi

    Jim Not-From-Here wrote:
    > I receive no check Christmas week.
    >
    > Jim Wayne
    >
    >
     
  13. Seveigny

    Seveigny Guest

    "CBI" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Seveigny" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > > > > > Teaching is the only profession I know of where you can be

    held
    > > responsible
    > > > > > > > for what happens when you're not there.
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > What?
    > > > > > >
    > > > > > > Medicine (including nursing and pharmacy) Wrong. Nurses are not

    > > held
    > > > > accountable for what happens on their shift when they are not there.
    > > > > Doctors are not held accountable for what happens on their shift

    when
    > > they
    > > > > are not there.
    > > >
    > > > Wrong. I don't even know where to begin on this one. There are many

    ways
    > > > that a doctor can be held responsible for things that happen when he

    is
    > > not
    > > > there.

    > >
    > > Okay, let's leave doctors out the question. How about nurses?

    >
    > Doctor writes an order that turns out to be a bad idea, pharmacy fills
    > it, medicine aide gives it. The nurse will be held responsible for not
    > properly reviewing the order before it was given.


    Hmm. The doctor writes a 'script which is bad medicine. The pharmacy fills
    the 'script and the "medicine aide" gives it. Is the medicine aide a nurse?
    The nurse okayed the medication. So, she was there.

    > Nurse tells a patient not to get out of bed without assistance.
    > Patient gets up unaided and falls, breaking a hip. Nurse is
    > responsible.


    Maybe, maybe not. It's the word of the nurse against the word of the
    patient. Will the hospital hold the nurse responsible? Not unless the
    hospital loses the case.

    > IV infiltrates and causes injury. Nurse will be responsible.


    Not in actuality. Did the the nurse insert the IV? If so, she deserves to
    be held accountable. If not, how so?

    > Family fails to stop at the nurses station and goes right to the loved
    > one's room with flowers. The asthma patient in the next bed
    > deteriorates.....


    Give me a break. Every time I've gone to visit a loved one in the hospital
    in the last ten years, I haven't stopped at the nurses station. Oddly
    enough, the nurses at the nurses station have kept an eye on me as I walked
    passed. There were signs on the hospital room which warned against bringing
    in flowers or other materials which were hazardous to the patients.
    >
    >
    > >
    > > Incorrect. Most accountants work for accounting firms. The firm hires

    the
    > > junior accountants and places them in support positions for senior
    > > accountants. If the junior accountants screw up, they are fired or
    > > disciplined.

    >
    > BS - in any field screw ups reflect poorly on the managers.


    No, not BS.

    > > >
    > > > Yes. Commonly docs that work shifts are expected to find replacements

    when
    > > > they are sick. Docs in private practice often hire "Locum Tenens"
    > > > substitutes to take their place and the doc is responsible for what

    his
    > > > replacement does and is expected to know what happened while he was

    gone.
    > >
    > > That wasn't the question. Donna asked if you, as an engineer, have to

    find a
    > > substitute, write plans for your substitute to follow, create materials

    for
    > > them to use and be tested on what the client does when you're not there.

    >
    > No - the statement was that there was something unusual about having
    > to find your own replacement for work. There isn't.


    No, Donna asked you if you have to find a replacement, write plans for that
    replacement, create materials for your replacement and be tested on what the
    replacement does when you're not there. I understand that you are a doctor.

    > > How can Doctor X be sued for malpractice if Doctor Z takes out the wrong
    > > kidney?

    >
    >
    > If doctor Z is under the employ of Dr. X, filling for him, partnered
    > with him, or under training from him - he can be.


    If Doctor Z is under the employ or in partnership with Dr. X or training
    with Dr. X, he can be. However, a substitute teacher is not under my
    employ, is not my partner and has not been trained by me. I can pick my
    substitute but I can't review her application, check her credentials, train
    her or in any way authenticate her ability to teach. Doctor X can.
    Therefore, Doctor X should be held accountable for the decisions she makes.
    ~Cate

    --
    "Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin
     
  14. Seveigny

    Seveigny Guest

    "CBI" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > "Magi D. Shepley" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >
    > > CBI wrote:
    > > > "Magi D. Shepley" <[email protected]> wrote

    > in
    > > > message

    news:[email protected]
    > > >
    > > >>As a doctor, you also get paid a hell of a lot more than I do.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > How is that relevant to whether you call spring break a paid vacation

    or
    > > > not?

    > > Its very relevant. Doctors really DO get paid vacations.

    >
    > Huh? I get no baseline salary and am completely paid on productivity. If I
    > take a day off I am paid nothing. THAT is not getting a paid vacation.


    The difference here is that you get to decide what days you take off. If
    you wish, you can work on Christmas and get paid for it. I can work on
    Christmas but I won't get paid for it.

    > > I'm not
    > > saying they don't work hard... or that they have better schedules than
    > > teachers, because I know they don't. But there is a huge difference
    > > that is made up by more money!

    >
    > Whether one salary or another is more worth it does not change whether the
    > vacation is paid for or not. You take a week off for spring break and the
    > next paycheck is the exact same. If I do my next check is smaller.


    One more time. You decide what days you work. Teachers do not. If you
    decide to work on Saturday, you get paid. Teachers do not.
    ~Cate

    --
    "Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin
     
  15. Seveigny

    Seveigny Guest

    "CBI" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Joni Rathbun <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > I receive no check Christmas week.
    > > >

    > >
    > > I never have either. My December check comes the last day we are
    > > in school - before we leave for Winter/Christmas break. My next
    > > check come two weeks into January and pays me for two weeks worth
    > > of work.

    >
    > In that case you are not paid for Christmas week. But you should
    > remember that there are thousands of different districts and they all
    > do it differently. Some get a normal paycheck despite not having
    > worked.


    Clever reply. However, you're ignoring the information that you have
    received from teachers. If there is a single teacher, who is reading this
    thread, who is paid forward rather than backward, please speak up. Every
    teacher, in every district I know of, is paid for the preceeding month not
    the current month. The paycheck I received on September 30, which was the
    first paycheck I received for this academic year, paid for the days I worked
    in August and September. I was paid for 30 days, at the per diem rate.
    ~Cate

    --
    "Those that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
    safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    Benjamin Franklin
     
  16. Seveigny

    Seveigny Guest

    "CBI" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Jim Not-From-Here" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > >
    > > You are generalizing beyond your data. The fact that the district that
    > > hired you paid you that way does not, in any way, indicated that this is

    the
    > > general practice. Please remember that there are several thousand

    different
    > > school districts in this country, and each of them has its own

    practices.
    >
    > Interesting.....
    >
    > So when you guys talk about how your experience it is "proof." When
    > someone else does it is "generalizing."


    When we talk about our experience, we are giving current information. When
    you talk about your experience, you are giving historical information. You
    can speak, with some authority about how doctors are paid. We can speak,
    with some authority about how teachers are paid. You probably have friends
    who are doctors who work in different areas; we have friends who teach in
    different areas. I think your generalizations about how doctors are paid is
    probably accurate. Your generalizations about how teachers are paid in not
    accurate. Several teachers, from different districts in different parts of
    the country have explained that the contract you worked under is vastly
    different than the contract that we, and our colleagues work under. Is it
    so difficult to believe that working conditions have changed since you
    became a doctor?
    > When you guys say how YOU get paid it is how things are. When someone
    > else does they should remember that things are different all over.
    >
    > Got it.


    No, I don't think you've got it. We're here, we're working in the teaching
    profession. How long ago did you teach? Why do you assume that your past
    experience is more valid the current conditions teachers work under? Even
    if your experience is valid, why does it invalidate the experience of the
    people who are currently teaching?
    ~Cate
     
  17. Seveigny

    Seveigny Guest

    "Mark D Morin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:26:39 -0400, "Jim Not-From-Here"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >"Mark D Morin" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    >
    > >> If you are like most teachers you have your income from those 183 days
    > >> dispursed over 9-10 months--vacations included. Functionally, I don't
    > >> see much of a distinction between that set up and calling it a paid
    > >> holiday. Yes, I've been a teacher and come from a teaching family.
    > >>

    > >Not exactly. An employer who holds an hourly worker's salary beyond a
    > >"reasonable" period (defined in law) may be obliged to pay interest on

    the
    > >pay withheld.

    >
    > When I was a teacher, I was salaried not hourly


    Well, times have changed since you were a teacher. We are paid a per diem
    rate, not a salaried rate.

    > > In NC, a teacher can choose to be paid over 12 months, with
    > >the state withholding 20 percent of their monthly pay (teachers in NC are
    > >paid for 200 working days over a 10 month period), but the state keeps

    the
    > >interest.
    > >
    > >In NC, we are given 5 paid holidays: New Year's, Memorial Day,

    Independence
    > >Day (most teachers are NOT paid for this, as our pay period doesn't cover
    > >July), Thanksgiving, and Christmas.

    >
    > I'm not arguing that teachers are over paid just commenting on the
    > level of meaningless debate. If your contracted period includes
    > mandated holidays and you are working in a salaried position, is
    > "paid" vs "unpaid" really a distinction without a difference?
    >
    > ====================================================
    > I've read that I flew up the hills and mountains of
    > France. But you don't fly up a hill. You struggle
    > slowly and painfully up a hill, and maybe, if you work
    > very hard, you get to the top ahead of everybody else.
    >
    > Lance Armstrong
    > Cyclist and cancer survivor
    >
    > http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
     
  18. Seveigny

    Seveigny Guest

    "Mark D Morin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:40:33 -0700, Joni Rathbun
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >On Sat, 18 Oct 2003, Mark D Morin wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Sat, 18 Oct 2003 19:26:39 -0400, "Jim Not-From-Here"
    > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >"Mark D Morin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >>
    > >> >> If you are like most teachers you have your income from those 183

    days
    > >> >> dispursed over 9-10 months--vacations included. Functionally, I

    don't
    > >> >> see much of a distinction between that set up and calling it a paid
    > >> >> holiday. Yes, I've been a teacher and come from a teaching family.
    > >> >>
    > >> >Not exactly. An employer who holds an hourly worker's salary beyond a
    > >> >"reasonable" period (defined in law) may be obliged to pay interest on

    the
    > >> >pay withheld.
    > >>
    > >> When I was a teacher, I was salaried not hourly
    > >>
    > >> > In NC, a teacher can choose to be paid over 12 months, with
    > >> >the state withholding 20 percent of their monthly pay (teachers in NC

    are
    > >> >paid for 200 working days over a 10 month period), but the state keeps

    the
    > >> >interest.
    > >> >
    > >> >In NC, we are given 5 paid holidays: New Year's, Memorial Day,

    Independence
    > >> >Day (most teachers are NOT paid for this, as our pay period doesn't

    cover
    > >> >July), Thanksgiving, and Christmas.
    > >>
    > >> I'm not arguing that teachers are over paid just commenting on the
    > >> level of meaningless debate. If your contracted period includes
    > >> mandated holidays and you are working in a salaried position, is
    > >> "paid" vs "unpaid" really a distinction without a difference?

    > >
    > >Most teacher contracts are based on a per diem rate.

    >
    > As are most every other contracts. What's your point?


    I believe her point was that teachers are paid a per diem rate not a salary.
    Cate

    > >Ever noticed what happens when a district tries to add days to a
    > >teacher's work year?
    > >
    > >

    >
    > ====================================================
    > I've read that I flew up the hills and mountains of
    > France. But you don't fly up a hill. You struggle
    > slowly and painfully up a hill, and maybe, if you work
    > very hard, you get to the top ahead of everybody else.
    >
    > Lance Armstrong
    > Cyclist and cancer survivor
    >
    > http://home.gwi.net/~mdmpsyd/index.htm
     
  19. DiChiera

    DiChiera Guest

    "Magi D. Shepley" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > I did try that... I didn't get very far. :( Despite the fact that I can
    > get into the hospital with my employee ID when everybody else gets
    > searched... Both the pediatric hospital I work for, and our much larger
    > affiliate hospital up the street.
    >
    > Magi



    Magi,

    That would be hard for me to understand, if I were in your place.
    I still think the emergency room or an urgent care might help for the
    time being at least until you were able to get on someone's roster.

    Another thought just came to me, could you get your previous doctor
    to recommend or contact someone in the city with the reasons as to the
    urgency. Or are their any help health organizations ... you could
    talk to, for instance the university my husband works at has a help
    line with offices/people to talk to. Maybe you could get in through
    the back door. Just a thought.

    Leah aka
     
  20. looper

    looper Guest

    Love the overtime!

    Magi D. Shapely wrote:

    > You're just full of assumptions, aren't you? My mom works for the
    > federal government and she works on Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Years,
    > Easter Sunday, Memorial DAy, Labor Day, etc.
    > The only time she doesn't work one of those days is if it is her
    > scheduled day off.
    >
    > Magi
    >
    > CBI wrote:
    >
    >> "Seveigny" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>
    >>> The idea that someone becomes a teacher because they want to have
    >>> lots of vacation time is ridiculous.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> I never said they did.
    >>
    >>
    >>> If you want to have lots of vacation
    >>> time, go to work for a corporation and stay there for awhile.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> I would suggest working for the Federal government.
    >>
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >
     
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