52-42-24 triple crank w/ 12-23 9 sp cassette

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by andresmuro, Feb 3, 2006.

  1. andresmuro

    andresmuro Guest

    I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    triple setup now. My question is this:

    Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24 chainwheel
    and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using the 52-23, on
    ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into this combo. So, I
    don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be able to shift
    through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24 chainwheel.

    Assuming that my long cage veloce deraullier is too short for this, is
    there another deraullier with a longer cage that may handle this combo?
    THKs

    Andres
     
    Tags:


  2. andresmuro wrote:
    > I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    > with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    > gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    > triple setup now. My question is this:
    >
    > Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    > into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24 chainwheel
    > and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using the 52-23, on
    > ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into this combo. So, I
    > don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be able to shift
    > through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24 chainwheel.
    >
    > Assuming that my long cage veloce deraullier is too short for this, is
    > there another deraullier with a longer cage that may handle this combo?
    > THKs
    >
    > Andres


    It will work just fine with your medium or long cage rear derailleur.
    I use a 52-42-30 with a 13-28 9 speed cassette. Campagnolo. Centaur
    medium cage rear derailleur. With the chain sized for a 53x28 (I use
    these wheels on a 53-42 bike too) the medium cage rear derailleur will
    easily take a 28 inner ring and will work OK with a 26 inner ring.
    Maybe the smallest 2-3 cogs have a drooping chain with the 26 inner
    ring. The 24 inner ring creates too many cogs with a drooping chain
    for my liking. A long cage instead of medium would allow the use of a
    24 inner ring except for maybe the smallest 1-2 cogs. I recently
    acquired a long cage so I will be making that change soon. For you
    with the chain sized for a 52x23, you will have no problems with a 24
    inner ring and the smallest cogs. Except maybe the first cog. Even
    with a medium cage rear derailleur. With the long cage, you have no
    problems at all. The long cage Campagnolo rear derailleurs are as long
    as Shimano mountain bike rear derailleurs. Can't get any longer. And
    you need to use a Campagnolo rear derailleur with Campagnolo shifters.
     
  3. Bob

    Bob Guest

    On 3 Feb 2006 08:29:35 -0800, "andresmuro" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    >with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    >gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    >triple setup now. My question is this:



    I don't know how big your hills are or what your knees feel like, but
    that is really low on the low side. A few notches higher on the 24
    will reduce a lot of the slop. I am a big fan of close rear clusters
    too to keep the changes smooth so I like the 12-23 idea ... but 24
    front is way down there.
     
  4. In article <[email protected]>,
    "andresmuro" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    > with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    > gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    > triple setup now. My question is this:
    >
    > Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    > into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24 chainwheel
    > and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using the 52-23, on
    > ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into this combo. So, I
    > don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be able to shift
    > through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24 chainwheel.


    To use the whole range you need a chain wrap of (52-24) + (23-12) or
    39t. According to Sheldon's handy page,
    <http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/derailers-rear.html#campagnolo>, all
    Campy long cage derailers (to use his spelling) have a 39t capacity, so
    it should work. If you really won't ever use the small/small combos, and
    you shouldn't, you can cut the chain for the 52/23 and not worry about
    it being too long. Manufacturer's listed capacities and recommended
    chain lengths are based on the assumption that some riders will spend
    all of their time in either the big/big or small/small combo, and the
    manufacturers don't want to get sued by angry clueless people.

    Alternately, you can get nearly the same top gear with a 48/11 (say
    24-(36 or 38)-48 with 11-23). I use a 24-36-46 with an 11-23 9-speed, so
    I'm fairly familiar with your desired gearing, and am quite happy with
    my setup. I don't know if Campy makes an 11-23 9-speed, and if you're
    using a 74/135 crank, you can't get smaller than 39t in the middle, so
    this may not be as practical a setup for you. You can get TA Vento rings
    to fit 74/135 in 39 and 49 for the outer positions.

    Drew

    --
    Drew W. Saunders

    dru (at) stanford (dot) eee dee you
     
  5. Vee

    Vee Guest

    andresmuro wrote:
    > I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    > with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    > gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    > triple setup now. My question is this:
    >
    > Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    > into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24 chainwheel
    > and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using the 52-23, on
    > ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into this combo. So, I
    > don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be able to shift
    > through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24 chainwheel.
    >
    > Assuming that my long cage veloce deraullier is too short for this, is
    > there another deraullier with a longer cage that may handle this combo?
    > THKs
    >
    > Andres


    I have the crank/cassette combination you describe on my all-purpose
    road bike. I use an XT medium cage derailleur simply because that's
    what I had in my basement. It easily accomodates every gear
    combination.

    Your Veloce will probably work - try and see.

    -Vee
     
  6. Nigel Cliffe

    Nigel Cliffe Guest

    andresmuro wrote:
    > I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    > with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    > gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    > triple setup now. My question is this:
    >
    > Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    > into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24
    > chainwheel and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using
    > the 52-23, on ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into
    > this combo. So, I don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be
    > able to shift through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24
    > chainwheel.
    >
    > Assuming that my long cage veloce deraullier is too short for this, is
    > there another deraullier with a longer cage that may handle this
    > combo? THKs



    The bit which would concern me is the front mechanism, rather than the rear
    capacity. Will the front cage go low enough at the front to fit the 24T
    ring, whilst still changing out onto the largest ring ? A secondary
    consideration would be your crank set, I think a standard Campag has 74mm
    PCD, 5-arm, for the inner of a triple; that will go down to 24T, but if the
    PCD is larger, then you won't fit a 24T onto the crankset, which means new
    cranks, and probably new bottom bracket (Campag being a tad different to
    Shimano taper), etc...


    Is there another option with a wider range rear cassette. Either as a single
    cassette, or by having two wheels to swap between different conditions ?
    53-42-30 onto 13-29 (a standard catelogue Campag 10 speed combination) would
    give the same ratio range a your proposal, yet without such massive jumps on
    the front ring. If the jumps are too large on one front ring, then the
    other ring gives half-steps in most of the mid-range.



    - Nigel (tourist not racer).




    --
    Nigel Cliffe,
    Webmaster at http://www.2mm.org.uk/
     
  7. Nate Knutson

    Nate Knutson Guest

    Nigel Cliffe wrote:
    > The bit which would concern me is the front mechanism, rather than the rear
    > capacity. Will the front cage go low enough at the front to fit the 24T
    > ring, whilst still changing out onto the largest ring ?


    Shimano road triple FDs can do this. I haven't done it with a Campy FD
    but I think it would probably work.
     
  8. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    > andresmuro wrote:
    >> I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    >> with an almost straight block.


    13-26 is just as straight where it matters.

    >> However, I want to have a low climbing
    >> gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    >> triple setup now. My question is this:
    >>
    >> Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    >> into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24
    >> chainwheel and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using
    >> the 52-23, on ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into
    >> this combo. So, I don't want to trim it beyond this.


    Good, but for best results have the chain only /just/ long enough for
    that.

    >> But I want to be
    >> able to shift through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24
    >> chainwheel.


    Yes, I know from various experimentation with Campag and a 24t granny that
    you'll be able to just about do what you want with current Medium cage, or
    easily with a Long cage. (Older "Triple" derailleur cage length is
    equivalent to today's Medium).

    Please read on for more suggestions..........

    Nigel Cliffe wrote:
    > The bit which would concern me is the front mechanism, rather than
    > the rear capacity. Will the front cage go low enough at the front to
    > fit the 24T ring, whilst still changing out onto the largest ring ?


    It will, though it is happier with 50-X-24 than 52-X-24. 50x12 is a not a
    small top gear!

    More of a problem is shifting from middle to inner ring (even with
    50-39-24), especially with the clucky action of Ergo front shifter. That
    big drop means the chain can easy miss and fall off the inside even with
    reasonable front derailleur adjustment. Best solution I've found (better
    than Chain Watcher) is to offset the inner ring inwards with washers.

    > A secondary consideration would be your crank set, I think a standard
    > Campag has 74mm PCD, 5-arm, for the inner of a triple; that will go
    > down to 24T, but if the PCD is larger, then you won't fit a 24T onto
    > the crankset, which means new cranks, and probably new bottom bracket
    > (Campag being a tad different to Shimano taper), etc...


    Fortunately Campag use 74mm PCD for the inner too.

    > Is there another option with a wider range rear cassette. Either as a
    > single cassette, or by having two wheels to swap between different
    > conditions ? 53-42-30 onto 13-29 (a standard catelogue Campag 10
    > speed combination) would give the same ratio range a your proposal,
    > yet without such massive jumps on the front ring. If the jumps are
    > too large on one front ring, then the other ring gives half-steps in
    > most of the mid-range.


    It's possible to do both! (24t granny plus big cassette) ...Not a silly
    idea if the bike is heavily loaded, the hills are steep and the legs can
    spin. On my 'tourer' I have 24-39-50 + 14-30.

    There are 13-26, 13-28 and 14-28 Campagnolo 9-speed cassettes, and
    compatible Marchisio sprockets up to 30t. Mirage and Veloce cassettes can
    be customized.

    ~PB
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Nigel Cliffe" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > andresmuro wrote:
    > > I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    > > with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    > > gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    > > triple setup now. My question is this:
    > >
    > > Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    > > into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24
    > > chainwheel and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using
    > > the 52-23, on ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into
    > > this combo. So, I don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be
    > > able to shift through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24
    > > chainwheel.
    > >
    > > Assuming that my long cage veloce deraullier is too short for this, is
    > > there another deraullier with a longer cage that may handle this
    > > combo? THKs

    >
    >
    > The bit which would concern me is the front mechanism, rather than the rear
    > capacity. Will the front cage go low enough at the front to fit the 24T
    > ring, whilst still changing out onto the largest ring ? A secondary
    > consideration would be your crank set, I think a standard Campag has 74mm
    > PCD, 5-arm, for the inner of a triple; that will go down to 24T, but if the
    > PCD is larger, then you won't fit a 24T onto the crankset, which means new
    > cranks, and probably new bottom bracket (Campag being a tad different to
    > Shimano taper), etc...
    >
    >
    > Is there another option with a wider range rear cassette. Either as a single
    > cassette, or by having two wheels to swap between different conditions ?
    > 53-42-30 onto 13-29 (a standard catelogue Campag 10 speed combination) would
    > give the same ratio range a your proposal, yet without such massive jumps on
    > the front ring. If the jumps are too large on one front ring, then the
    > other ring gives half-steps in most of the mid-range.


    The idea is to have a straight block cluster in back:
    13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23.
    I use this configuration and am very happy; can be in
    _exactly_ the right gear when I feel like it. We have some
    stiff little hills around here, and the 24 tooth chain
    wheel is the secret to happiness. I am not a strong rider,
    but often find myself drifting past others on some of
    these climbs.

    This is good use of a triple chain wheel. Two road chain
    wheels and a straight block rear cluster. Then the 24
    tooth chain wheel bail out gear. It works for me.

    An 11t or 12t or 29t cogwheel means putting a hole or two
    in the straight block. Not worth it. I like the 18t cog
    wheel. What will a 12t wheel do for me? I do not spin it
    on the flats, and descending I can do better in a tuck.

    --
    Michael Press
     
  10. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Michael Press wrote:
    > I use this configuration and am very happy; can be in
    > _exactly_ the right gear when I feel like it.


    I recommend pedaling drills. I felt this way when I first started, but being able
    to cover a +/- 6% range in cadence really shouldn't be a challenge.

    Consider the popularity of urban fixed gear bikes. I think their proponents
    would laugh at the notion that a 17-19 jump, for example, was a burden,
    even without dual shifting.

    Dan
     
  11. JF

    JF Guest

    I use a medium cage Record derailleur with a 26-43-53 front and 12-29
    (custom made from Veloce loose cogs) 10 speed rear. It works fine. I NEVER
    use the 53 bigger than about the 17 or 19 cog, although I think it would go,
    just because the cross chaining gets to be too extreme.

    -Jim

    "andresmuro" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    > with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    > gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    > triple setup now. My question is this:
    >
    > Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    > into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24 chainwheel
    > and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?. While I will avoid using the 52-23, on
    > ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into this combo. So, I
    > don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be able to shift
    > through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24 chainwheel.
    >
    > Assuming that my long cage veloce deraullier is too short for this, is
    > there another deraullier with a longer cage that may handle this combo?
    > THKs
    >
    > Andres
    >
     
  12. In article
    <[email protected]>,
    Dan Connelly <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:

    > Michael Press wrote:
    > > I use this configuration and am very happy; can be in
    > > _exactly_ the right gear when I feel like it.

    >
    > I recommend pedaling drills. I felt this way when I first started, but being able
    > to cover a +/- 6% range in cadence really shouldn't be a challenge.


    I do not need to drill. The older, long time bicycle is a
    39-50; 14-16-18-21-24-28-32. Plenty of miles there.
    They can have my nine speed 13-23 when they pry it from my
    cold dead fingers.

    > Consider the popularity of urban fixed gear bikes. I think their proponents
    > would laugh at the notion that a 17-19 jump, for example, was a burden,
    > even without dual shifting.


    They do not laugh at me. I _like_ the 18t cogwheel in the
    straight block. Still, my urban bike is the aforementioned
    seven speed, and even then I spend most of the time in
    50/21 and 50/18.

    --
    Michael Press
     
  13. andresmuro wrote:
    > I am going to try to install the above combo. I want to use the 52-42
    > with an almost straight block. However, I want to have a low climbing
    > gear for steep hills and to save my knees. I have a veloce 9 speed
    > triple setup now. My question is this:
    >
    > Would I be able to keep the chain long enough so that it'll still go
    > into the 52-23 and short enought that it will go into the 24 chainwheel
    > and the -23, 21, 19 sprockets?.


    Probably. use a chain with a snap link. Start longish to see if you can
    use the 24 ring and bigger cogs w/o the pulley hitting the cogs and
    then long enough for big-big combos.

    While I will avoid using the 52-23, on
    > ocassions, I know that I will accidentally shift into this combo. So, I
    > don't want to trim it beyond this. But I want to be able to shift
    > through the lowest 3 to 4 sprokets when I am in the 24 chainwheel.
    >
    > Assuming that my long cage veloce deraullier is too short for this, is
    > there another deraullier with a longer cage that may handle this combo?
    > THKs


    It probably isn't too short, the very longest long cage fromCampagnolo.

    >
    > Andres
     
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