$600 titanium frames from China - Xi'an

[rayhuang]

Xi'an the home of the Terra Cotta soldiers as well as where they manufacture China's figher jets. Supposedly (havent done the research) China has a jet that out maneuvers a F16.


I would love to try my hand at importing frames much like Habanero, but I keep thinking about the liability end-scary!!

 

[Phill P]

Can somebody do a review on thier Xi'an bike, or one of thier mates bikes they have taken for a decent ride.

I'm interested in stiffness, both bottom bracket and cornering. Let us know if its a butted frame or straight gauge.

I'd love to get a custom frame (I dont fit stock frames well) but being a big guy (6'2 and just under 100kg) I'm concerned about stiffness, and strength of course. But if they build fighter jets I'm sure they can weld and bike frame that will last as long as any Ti frame (ie nearly for ever).

I assume they use 3/2.5 for the entire frame?

You could easily get one of these frames, sand all the paint off, then claim you got it while travelling in Italy from some little known craftsman not far from the start of the Giro.........

 

[mastercyclist]

Hey. New to this forum and I saw your quote about Everti frames and their lifetime warranty. Kurt Knock and Everti do not offer a lifetime warranty anymore. I spent two years trying to get my warranty frame replaced with Kurt Knock and Everti bikes and was lied to, stalled, delayed and deflected for the entire time despite Kurt agreeing that I had a warranty frame. He acknowledged manufacturing and structural faults and changed his builder. His last offer was $850 for crash replacement which was bogus to say the least. Never have Kust Knock and Everti build you a frame. They are cheap and break and have the worst warranty in the business!

 

[CAMPYBOB]

The Everti website looks it's from 2007.

 

[mastercyclist]

Yah, not much updating going on. Same with the Face Book site.

 

[maanderx]

Originally Posted by chrome frame

They also make titanium forks.....I wonder?!?!?

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7132/7099747661_6bcf53e31f_b.jpg

Nothing wrong with titanium forks. This is one of the frames with titanium forks purchased from the Chinese company.
Very happy with the frame and forks since their purchase in 2007.

 

[Froze]

I would NOT buy a bike from that source, there was a guy who did buy a TI bike from that same company, when he got the bike the head tube was ovalized and he could not install a fork or headset, he sent his complaint back to the company and the company said that all bike frames are thoroughly checked before sending out and that no frame would have an ovalized headtube therefore the buyer damaged the bike and thus no replacement. The buyer decided to get an attorney who told him that he had no way to legally go after the company because it was a Chinese company with no legal possibility of getting any satisfaction because they do not abide by our laws. So he was out $600 because he wanted to go cheap. Sure you may read about positive outcomes but if you have a problem you're screwed big time. If you can get that same frame from a westernized company that plastered a decal on it for a western brand like Motobecane, then you'll be ok with any warranty issues, in fact Bikes Direct sells just a Motobecane TI frame and fork for $999.

 

[retrogrinch]

+1 on the suggestion to consider BikesDirect. Yes you'll pay more for the frame but it significantly reduces one's exposure to warranty problems (manufacturing defects) and all sorts of other potential issues such as the shipment disappearing.

That said, don't expect an inexpensive Chinese frame to be in the same class as a Moots or Seven Cycles. Sure they're both made from Ti, but that sort of reasoning is like comparing a Walmart special to a Richard Sachs - after all, both are made with steel...

Cheers,
Greg

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by retrogrinch


That said, don't expect an inexpensive Chinese frame to be in the same class as a Moots or Seven Cycles. Sure they're both made from Ti, but that sort of reasoning is like comparing a Walmart special to a Richard Sachs - after all, both are made with steel...

Cheers,
Greg

This is an old post. Though I agree with your first paragraph I only half way agree with your second. Walmart steel bike and a Sachs steel bike is not even closely related to each other as a Motobecane Ti and a Moots Ti bike. Both the Moto and the Moot use the same titanium alloy 3/2.5 whereas Walmart uses high tensile steel and Sachs uses PegoRichie tubing probably Columbus Spirit. What about quality of construction between a Moto and a Moot? That should have been your discussion but it wasn't. I don't know anyone who's ever had a Moots so I can't answer for them, but I have seen up close and ridden Serotta, Lynskey (mine), and a Moto, and I've seen Litespeeds up close, and can tell you the welds were so close that if I covered the decals and asked you which brand was each bike you wouldn't be able to tell me, so in regards to welds that's a wash. Having rode the 3 I mentioned there are differences but not huge and those differences could be in the forks, the Serotta also had flared out stays so there may be some sort of difference there. The Moto though was a very good riding bike, a bike that the owner has had for 4 years. The Moto was so good that I actually considered very seriously to buy one, but didn't only because they ran out of my size and didn't get any more TI bikes in for almost 2 years so I ended up getting the Lynskey on a promotional sale though it still cost me about $500 more than the Moto.

Your comparison was a bit out of whack.

A direct made in China TI would still use the same 3/2.5 ally but it's in the quality of construction you have to worry about, which both you and I explained what can happen there.

 

[retrogrinch]

Guilty as charged - yes my comparison was extreme and I should have been more specific as I was targeting the no name frames and not the Moto sold by BikesDirect.

China is infamous for having highly variable quality of construction. One can get good quality Chinese frames from Salsa, Surly, Novara (REI) and others - all made with "no name" CroMoly tubes. Soma also has their frames made in China but chose Tange Prestige for their tube sets. Jamis has China built frames using Reynolds 853. Both Reynolds and Tange have long solid reputations for the quality of their tubing. Does Tange make the Soma frame better? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm a sucker for going with proven products so I went with the Tange.

Back to the original discussion, not all 3/2.5 Ti tubing is made the same, or at least that's the opinion of the good folks at Moots and Dean. Tom Kellogg, a rather experienced builder, has written a good deal on the differences in Ti tubing and how it affects the ride of a bike. Attempting to compare the Moto to the Moots based on 3/2.5 tubing is, in my opinion, an over simplification. There's just so much more: the metalurgy of the tubes, shaping of the tubes, maintaining an inert atmosphere during welding, alignment and other critical steps in the manufacturing of the frames. There's little or no data, so in the absence of data it really comes down to personal experience and gut feel (belief?).

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by retrogrinch
Guilty as charged - yes my comparison was extreme and I should have been more specific as I was targeting the no name frames and not the Moto sold by BikesDirect.



Back to the original discussion, not all 3/2.5 Ti tubing is made the same, or at least that's the opinion of the good folks at Moots and Dean. Tom Kellogg, a rather experienced builder, has written a good deal on the differences in Ti tubing and how it affects the ride of a bike. Attempting to compare the Moto to the Moots based on 3/2.5 tubing is, in my opinion, an over simplification. There's just so much more: the metalurgy of the tubes, shaping of the tubes, maintaining an inert atmosphere during welding, alignment and other critical steps in the manufacturing of the frames. There's little or no data, so in the absence of data it really comes down to personal experience and gut feel (belief?).

I understand what you're saying and don't disagree completely.

Don't forget too that Moots, Dean, Kellogg, and others like them, have a very high amount of personal interest in spreading bad words about cheap TI bikes because they want to continue to sell their bikes that START at $5,000, then to have some company like Bikes Direct and their TI Motobecane that comes around for less than half of a similar equipped bike. This happens all the time in the world of business competition. The Moto is not inferior by as much as you think, if the welding wasn't done properly problems would pop up rather quickly, go on the internet and check out the Moto reviews. Then if you want to find frame failures type: "Motobecane titanium frame failure" (or whatever brand you're looking for) into your search engine and you'll find 2...just two, do the same with Moots and you'll find 1, Dean has a bunch! And the odd thing about Dean, he doesn't warranty material, or in other words the frame tubing itself from failures; see: http://www.deanbikes.com/about.html Kellogg had issues with his Merlins frames coming apart where the carbon bonded to the titanium, and there is records of his all ti frames breaking. Look, if you look hard enough you'll find problems with any bike brand no matter how good the builder is claimed to be.

Grant Petersen of Rivendell once said that his Taiwan factory made Atlantis bikes was 98% of what you would get with his custom built Rivendells. The Motobecane Ti bike is made in Taiwan (not mainland China who doesn't have to follow Western thoughts about quality control), but from what I could tell, the Motobecane is about 98% of what my Lynskey is and my other friends Serotta ti bikes are. Oh, and by the way, a few Rivendells have broke too, even Richard Sachs.

 

[Froze]

Originally Posted by cathyhao
It seems like a made-in-China product factory for the cycling accessories.
As for more recommendation, hope you can view here as well: http://www.globebuy.com
Here are all factory-direct products of made in China and the quality can be guaranteed
the price is affordable
Hope you can also find the things you want here^^

Unless Globebuy is an American company and not a Chinese company based in China, the guarantee will be completely useless if they decide not to warranty something. The words they use sound good, but believe me, if they chose not to warranty something there isn't a darn thing you can do about it. In other words...you're falked!