7sp Shimano cogs on 8/9sp hub?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Pete Biggs, Oct 28, 2003.

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  1. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns compatible? (I
    know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).

    2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
    4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway in
    practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My confusion
    stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width yet
    apparently they fit on the same hubs.

    3. Are there any other complications with this procedure?

    thank you

    ~PB
     
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  2. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pbiggmellon{remove_fruit}[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > 1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns compatible?
    > (I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).
    >

    Yep- I've done it, no problem...

    > 2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
    > 4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
    > in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
    > confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
    > yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.

    4.5mm, according to the Wheels Manufacturing site: NCS-4.5 - 4.5 mm thick. Also used for spacing a 7
    speed cassette for use on an 8 speed body. http://wheelsmfg.com/p_freehubspacers.htm

    >
    > 3. Are there any other complications with this procedure?
    >
    > thank you
    >
    > ~PB

    Aside from getting your fingers all greasy, nope...

    Jeff
     
  3. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > 1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns compatible?
    > (I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).

    So long as the freehub is hyperglide the splines will match. Make sure they are, there were some
    Uniglide 7 speed cassettes, I have one, the splines on the cassette are all the same whereas
    hyperglide have one that is wider to ensure all sprockets are fitted the same way. You have probably
    already seen this on Sheldon Browns site

    >
    > 2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
    > 4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
    > in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
    > confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
    > yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.
    >

    If you are using 7 sprockets with a 7 speed changer the spacers will be as they are for a 7 speed,
    you may need a extra one, at one end so that the lock ring gets tight enough. The lockring has about
    3 or 4 mm of thread IIRC that takes up the difference in width

    > 3. Are there any other complications with this procedure?

    Not that I am aware of. BTW it is not difficult to swap freehub bodies, I have a 7 speed UNIGLIDE
    freehub body spare, if you want it. HG sprockets can be used with some filing of their splines to
    make them fit. This is not difficult when the sprockets are loose. I bought a new HG 7 Speed one
    from Halfords about 6 months ago, for about £14.

    >
    > thank you
    >
    > ~PB

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.
     
  4. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:
    > 1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns compatible?
    > (I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).
    >
    > 2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
    > 4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
    > in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
    > confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
    > yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.
    >
    > 3. Are there any other complications with this procedure?
    >
    > thank you
    >
    > ~PB

    Just read all the original thread now and I realise my other reply was not much use - sorry. If I
    get time at the weekend I'll dismantle my Ultegra 9 rear wheel and see how my 7 speed cassette looks
    on it. I can measure the cassettes with my vernier calipers too.

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.
     
  5. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    Pete Biggs wrote:

    > 2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
    > 4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between? I realise there will be some leeway
    > in practice but it would be useful to have the correct figure as a starting point. My
    > confusion stems from the fact that Shimano 8 and 9sp cassette are slightly different in width
    > yet apparently they fit on the same hubs.

    Using the data on SheldonBrowns site I calculate the following

    7 Speed 31.85 mm wide 8 Speed 35.40 9 Speed 36.50

    so the packing spacer would be between 4.55 and 5.65

    however 8 from 9 (thats 8 9speed sprockets and 7 9speed spacers) comes in at
    32.16 and will fit on a 7 speed freehub (I have already checked this) so the lockring will tighten
    that far, we are now only looking at taking up 0.31
    mm.

    I may be wrong of course and I'll try to measure the things in practice at the weekend.

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.
     
  6. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Pete Biggs wrote:
    > > 1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns
    > > compatible? (I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).
    >
    > So long as the freehub is hyperglide the splines will match. Make sure
    they
    > are, there were some Uniglide 7 speed cassettes, I have one, the splines
    on
    > the cassette are all the same whereas hyperglide have one that is wider to ensure all sprockets
    > are fitted the same way. You have probably already
    seen
    > this on Sheldon Browns site

    You can't get an 8/9 speed uniglide freehub, and the hyperglide freehub will cope with both sorts of
    sprockets, so there's no need to worry about it this way round.

    (you sort of mentioned this later, but the paragraph I quoted looks a bit confusing)

    cheers, clive
     
  7. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    MSeries wrote:

    > however 8 from 9 (thats 8 9speed sprockets and 7 9speed spacers) comes in at
    > 32.16 and will fit on a 7 speed freehub (I have already checked this) so the lockring will tighten
    > that far, we are now only looking at taking up 0.31 mm.

    Ignore this its nonesense, you have a 8/9 speed hub not 7 speed

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.
     
  8. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    Clive George wrote:
    > "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Pete Biggs wrote:
    >>> 1. Can Shimano 7-speed HG sprockets be fitted to Shimano 8/9sp hubs? Spline patterns
    >>> compatible? (I know respaced 8sp sprockets can be used for 7sp spacing, BTW).
    >>
    >> So long as the freehub is hyperglide the splines will match. Make sure they are, there were some
    >> Uniglide 7 speed cassettes, I have one, the splines on the cassette are all the same whereas
    >> hyperglide have one that is wider to ensure all sprockets are fitted the same way. You have
    >> probably already seen this on Sheldon Browns site
    >
    > You can't get an 8/9 speed uniglide freehub, and the hyperglide freehub will cope with both sorts
    > of sprockets, so there's no need to worry about it this way round.

    You are indeed correct sir, I have worried about the reverse problem and got it sorted. The more
    usual problem is new cassettes with old hubs, not the other way round !!

    --
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  9. Pete Biggs <pbiggmellon{remove_fruit}[email protected]> wrote:
    >2. What is the spacer size required to fit behind a 7sp cassette on the latest 8/9sp hubs? 3.5mm?
    > 4.7mm? ...or something in between or anything in between?

    I find that a normal 7s spacer taken from between the sprockets of an old cassette is the right
    width. Of course you have to either cut holes in it or punch the rivets on the new cassette.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Kill the tomato!
     
  10. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    MSeries wrote:
    > and I'll try to measure the things in practice at the weekend.

    Don't worry about doing that Martin - I know the width of Shimano 8 & 9sp cassettes from SB's info
    (the fact that they're different is the source of complication/confusion). I think we're getting
    there anyway: The Wheels Manufacturing size (4.5mm) [thanks Jeff] will be a reliable data point.

    As you might have gathered from the related subject, I'm enquiring on behalf of Tony to confirm my
    calculations. I think it'll be best if Tony fits the thinnest spacer that could work for the sake of
    the chainline - to help angle of chain from middle or big chainring to the larger sprockets
    (particularly middle to largest two sprockets if using a triple chainset). I think that'll be 3.5mm
    so far (as the lockring should cope).

    ~PB
     
  11. Tony R

    Tony R Guest

    "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    >
    > Just read all the original thread now and I realise my other reply was not much use - sorry. If I
    > get time at the weekend I'll dismantle my Ultegra 9 rear wheel and see how my 7 speed cassette
    > looks on it. I can measure the cassettes with my vernier calipers too.

    Hello Martin, as you probably realise Pete is going to all this trouble on my behalf (thanks Pete).
    As the owner of an Ultegra hub perhaps you could advise me as to their suitability on a tourer? ie.
    will they stand a wet tour without being serviced 'till home again? thanks, tony R.
     
  12. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    tony R wrote:
    > "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>
    >> Just read all the original thread now and I realise my other reply was not much use - sorry. If I
    >> get time at the weekend I'll dismantle my Ultegra 9 rear wheel and see how my 7 speed cassette
    >> looks on it. I can measure the cassettes with my vernier calipers too.
    >
    > Hello Martin, as you probably realise Pete is going to all this trouble on my behalf (thanks
    > Pete). As the owner of an Ultegra hub perhaps you could advise me as to their suitability on a
    > tourer? ie. will they stand a wet tour without being serviced 'till home again? thanks, tony R.

    I have Ultegra on my Sunday Best bike, it is not used in winter and has done about 4500 mostly dry
    miles since I had it built up. All those miles have been light, carrying only me and the few items I
    need for a full day that fit in a saddle wedge bag and my pockets. I have not serviced the hubs at
    all in that time, so it is not possible to say how well they'd stand up to extended loaded tours.
    I'd be very dissappointed if they needed servicing after say two weeks touring.

    My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long (6 months) loaded touring.
    I would try to get top end metal mountain bike hubs for a tourer. There is so much choice these
    days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

    Martin

    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.
     
  13. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...

    > My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long
    (6
    > months) loaded touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike
    hubs
    > for a tourer. There is so much choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

    Deore, not even LX.

    cheers, clive
     
  14. Mseries

    Mseries Guest

    Clive George wrote:
    > "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >> My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long (6 months) loaded
    >> touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike hubs for a tourer. There is so much
    >> choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?
    >
    > Deore, not even LX.
    >
    > cheers, clive

    As far as I can tell (based on price and looks) Deore is lower down the foodchain than LX, XT and
    XTR. Maybe checkout the customer reviews of the hubs on ChainReactionCycles to try to determine what
    will last. Maybe that Deore are cheap because they use steel which of course will be heavier (than
    other materials) but strong.
    --
    The Reply & From email addresses are checked rarely.
     
  15. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    >>> My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long (6 months) loaded
    >>> touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike hubs for a tourer. There is so much
    >>> choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?
    >>
    >> Deore, not even LX.

    > As far as I can tell (based on price and looks) Deore is lower down the foodchain than LX, XT
    > and XTR.

    As far as I can tell (based on looking at the specs, diagrams and part numbers when choosing a hub
    for my brother's wheel [chose LX]) LX is very similar to Deore - just weighs a little bit less.
    Freewheel body* and quick release skewer is different but the rest looks the same. Merlin Cycles
    only charge £4 extra for their handbuilt rear wheels if ordering LX above Deore so that's another
    indication of their similarity. I think there's more of a step up from LX to XT.

    In any case all these are 135mm - which may be fine for tourers designed from scratch for one but
    not so ideal when converting a 126mm bike without changing the BB & chainset.

    * costs more to replace but I don't know if it's any more reliable. Might just be lighter (guess).
    Otherwise/and quick release nut/lever must be lighter.

    ~PB
     
  16. Tony R

    Tony R Guest

    "Pete Biggs" <pbiggmellon{remove_fruit}[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > As you might have gathered from the related subject, I'm enquiring on behalf of Tony to confirm my
    > calculations. I think it'll be best if Tony fits the thinnest spacer that could work for the sake
    > of the chainline - to help angle of chain from middle or big chainring to the larger sprockets
    > (particularly middle to largest two sprockets if using a triple chainset). I think that'll be
    > 3.5mm so far (as the lockring should cope).

    In the absence of any contradictions from the techies out there I'll take it that this is officially
    good advice. Thankyou Pete. tony R.
     
  17. Tony R

    Tony R Guest

    "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > tony R wrote:
    > > "MSeries" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > As the owner of an Ultegra hub perhaps you could
    > > advise me as to their suitability on a tourer? ie. will they stand a wet tour without being
    > > serviced 'till home again? thanks, tony R.
    >
    > I have Ultegra on my Sunday Best bike, it is not used in winter and has
    done
    > about 4500 mostly dry miles since I had it built up. All those miles have been light, carrying
    > only me and the few items I need for a full day that fit in a saddle wedge bag and my pockets. I
    > have not serviced the hubs at all in that time, so it is not possible to say how well they'd stand
    > up to extended loaded tours. I'd be very dissappointed if they needed servicing after say two
    > weeks touring.
    >
    > My tourer has 1990 Deore hubs and have stood up very well indeed to long
    (6
    > months) loaded touring. I would try to get top end metal mountain bike
    hubs
    > for a tourer. There is so much choice these days, what do Galaxies have ? Deore XT ?

    It's very much a case of "I would if I could." It's an over locknut thingy problem. The old wheels
    have (old) XT hubs. If they still made them skinnier I'd choose them again. Thanks for the answer
    though. I have never toured for longer than 4 weeks at a time and more usually 2 so maybe the
    Ultegras would
    do.tony R.
     
  18. G.Daniels

    G.Daniels Guest

    does uncle knobby know?
     
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