8/9 speed mixture

Discussion in 'Mountain Bikes' started by Candt, Feb 14, 2003.

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  1. Candt

    Candt Guest

    Without wanting to incur the wrath of the newsgroup purists (you know who you are), I need to ask a
    technical question, but one specific to MTB's, so I'm asking here rather than rec.bicycles.tech...

    I had an 8 speed bike... STX 8 speed shifters, 8 speed cassette... I was recently talked into buying
    an XT front mech by my wife (her brother was working in the shop, and told me I had to buy something
    to make him look good - how cool is that!!)

    Now, because the XT mech was incompatible with my crappy chainrings (24-34-42), I bought a set of
    deore hollowtech 22-32-44 9-speed rings with cranks, and of course - the essential XT rear mech
    too.... (This shop had 35% off a bunch of shimano stuff - so it was a great price)

    Now, I'm quite good at setting up gearing, and I bought a new BB to improve the chainline which was
    too wide at the front with the lower profile cranks, and am basically there, all gears can be
    shifted into. The trouble is - the chain just about rubs on the front derailleur on one side of the
    other. ie Lets say your in the middle chainring, if the chain is just touching one side on the 1st
    cassette cog, I can tighten the cable so its not, but then it will touch on the 8th cog...

    Now I know a 9 speed cassette would be preferable, and matching shifters too - but I've already
    spent the budget on these other parts, and I thought that a 9 speed cassette is the same high to low
    width than 8 speed, its just the spacing which is different. So - the only thing I can think of is
    that the chain is too thick...

    So in my usual round about way - all I need to know is - will a 9-speed chain help? Is it indeed
    thinner, as I only need to save about 1mm to prevent the rubbing? and will a 9-speed chain work with
    an 8-speed cassette?

    Cheers then

    CandT
     
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  2. Bomba

    Bomba Guest

    CandT wrote:

    > Now I know a 9 speed cassette would be preferable, and matching shifters too - but I've already
    > spent the budget on these other parts, and I thought that a 9 speed cassette is the same high to
    > low width than 8 speed, its just the spacing which is different. So - the only thing I can think
    > of is that the chain is too thick...
    >
    > So in my usual round about way - all I need to know is - will a 9-speed chain help? Is it indeed
    > thinner, as I only need to save about 1mm to prevent the rubbing? and will a 9-speed chain work
    > with an 8-speed cassette?

    You've just answered your own question. 9sp chains are thinner than 8sp. A new 9sp chain should work
    with a 8sp cassette (I think I've got that the right way round).

    --
    a.m-b FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/ambfaq.htm

    b.bmx FAQ: http://www.t-online.de/~jharris/bmx_faq.htm
     
  3. CandT wrote:
    >
    > Without wanting to incur the wrath of the newsgroup purists (you know who you are), I need to ask
    > a technical question, but one specific to MTB's, so I'm asking here rather than
    > rec.bicycles.tech...
    >
    > I had an 8 speed bike... STX 8 speed shifters, 8 speed cassette... I was recently talked into
    > buying an XT front mech by my wife (her brother was working in the shop, and told me I had to buy
    > something to make him look good - how cool is that!!)
    >
    > Now, because the XT mech was incompatible with my crappy chainrings (24-34-42),

    Who told you that? If by "mech" you mean front d, the XT should work fine with 24-34-42. Front ders
    can cover a set number of tooth difference. Your difference is 18 teeth, easily done by an XT. A
    standard XT crank has a larger tooth difference than yours.

    > Now, I'm quite good at setting up gearing, and I bought a new BB to improve the chainline which
    > was too wide at the front with the lower profile cranks, and am basically there, all gears can be
    > shifted into. The trouble is - the chain just about rubs on the front derailleur on one side of
    > the other. ie Lets say your in the middle chainring, if the chain is just touching one side on the
    > 1st cassette cog, I can tighten the cable so its not, but then it will touch on the 8th cog...

    Try adjusting the angle of the der in relation to the chain rings. You can also SLIGHTLY bend the
    nose or tail of the der. Also, double check the height of the cage over the rings. You should be
    1-3mm over the big ring.

    > So in my usual round about way - all I need to know is - will a 9-speed chain help? Is it indeed
    > thinner, as I only need to save about 1mm to prevent the rubbing? and will a 9-speed chain work
    > with an 8-speed cassette?
    >

    A 9 speed chain may cause rear shifting problems on an 8 speed cassette. It is thinner, including
    BETWEEN the plates.

    I think your brother-in-law needs to fix your bike. That would make him look really good!

    Barry
     
  4. Candt

    Candt Guest

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 12:00:40 GMT, "B a r r y B u r k e J r ." <"keep it in the newsgroup
    "@thankyou.com> wrote:

    >CandT wrote:
    >>
    >> Without wanting to incur the wrath of the newsgroup purists (you know who you are), I need to ask
    >> a technical question, but one specific to MTB's, so I'm asking here rather than
    >> rec.bicycles.tech...
    >>
    >> I had an 8 speed bike... STX 8 speed shifters, 8 speed cassette... I was recently talked into
    >> buying an XT front mech by my wife (her brother was working in the shop, and told me I had to buy
    >> something to make him look good - how cool is that!!)
    >>
    >> Now, because the XT mech was incompatible with my crappy chainrings (24-34-42),
    >
    >Who told you that? If by "mech" you mean front d, the XT should work fine with 24-34-42. Front ders
    >can cover a set number of tooth difference. Your difference is 18 teeth, easily done by an XT. A
    >standard XT crank has a larger tooth difference than yours.
    >
    >> Now, I'm quite good at setting up gearing, and I bought a new BB to improve the chainline
    >> which was too wide at the front with the lower profile cranks, and am basically there, all
    >> gears can be shifted into. The trouble is - the chain just about rubs on the front derailleur
    >> on one side of the other. ie Lets say your in the middle chainring, if the chain is just
    >> touching one side on the 1st cassette cog, I can tighten the cable so its not, but then it
    >> will touch on the 8th cog...
    >
    >Try adjusting the angle of the der in relation to the chain rings. You can also SLIGHTLY bend the
    >nose or tail of the der. Also, double check the height of the cage over the rings. You should be
    >1-3mm over the big ring.
    >
    >> So in my usual round about way - all I need to know is - will a 9-speed chain help? Is it indeed
    >> thinner, as I only need to save about 1mm to prevent the rubbing? and will a 9-speed chain work
    >> with an 8-speed cassette?
    >>
    >
    >A 9 speed chain may cause rear shifting problems on an 8 speed cassette. It is thinner, including
    >BETWEEN the plates.
    >
    >I think your brother-in-law needs to fix your bike. That would make him look really good!
    >
    >Barry

    Thanks for the response, a couple of points to reply to really, but with regards the chainring sizes
    - the problem with the XT mech, and indeed an LX one I got cheap a few months ago (which my brother
    in law now has since it didnt fit my bike!), is that because the old large chainring is smaller than
    the new deore set and the middle chainring is bigger than the new set - the difference in diameter
    between the middle and large is less - which mean that to allow the inside wall of the front d to
    pass over the middle chainring when shifting to the big ring, the outer wall needed at least 1cm
    clearance over the big ring - which obviously is not right...

    Now there is a 12 tooth difference, instead of 8 between middle and large, the outer wall passes 1mm
    above the big ring and also the inner wall misses the middle ring by about the same...

    I will try bending the cage, and fiddling with the cage angle too - I'm sure its a tweaking issue
    rather than the parts themselves

    Cheers,

    CandT
     
  5. > Now I know a 9 speed cassette would be preferable, and matching shifters too - but I've already
    > spent the budget on these other parts, and I thought that a 9 speed cassette is the same high to
    > low width than 8 speed, its just the spacing which is different. So - the only thing I can think
    > of is that the chain is too thick...

    Yes.
    >
    > So in my usual round about way - all I need to know is - will a 9-speed chain help? Is it indeed
    > thinner, as I only need to save about 1mm to prevent the rubbing? and will a 9-speed chain work
    > with an 8-speed cassette?
    >

    The 9 speed chain will not work that great on your cassette, the problem of course is that the new
    front derailleur is narrower. You can put the old one back on, bend the cage on it or just live
    with it. You're only a hop, skip and a few hours of overtime from getting a 9 spd. cassette and
    shifters anyway.
    --
    _________________________
    Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com
     
  6. "CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Without wanting to incur the wrath of the newsgroup purists (you know
    who you
    > are), I need to ask a technical question, but one specific to MTB's, so
    I'm
    > asking here rather than rec.bicycles.tech...
    >
    > I had an 8 speed bike... STX 8 speed shifters, 8 speed cassette... I
    was
    > recently talked into buying an XT front mech by my wife (her brother
    was working
    > in the shop, and told me I had to buy something to make him look good -
    how cool
    > is that!!)
    >
    > Now, because the XT mech was incompatible with my crappy chainrings
    (24-34-42),
    > I bought a set of deore hollowtech 22-32-44 9-speed rings with cranks,
    and of
    > course - the essential XT rear mech too.... (This shop had 35% off a
    bunch of
    > shimano stuff - so it was a great price)
    >
    > Now, I'm quite good at setting up gearing, and I bought a new BB to
    improve the
    > chainline which was too wide at the front with the lower profile
    cranks, and am
    > basically there, all gears can be shifted into. The trouble is - the
    chain just
    > about rubs on the front derailleur on one side of the other. ie Lets
    say your in
    > the middle chainring, if the chain is just touching one side on the 1st
    cassette
    > cog, I can tighten the cable so its not, but then it will touch on the
    8th
    > cog...
    >
    > Now I know a 9 speed cassette would be preferable, and matching
    shifters too -
    > but I've already spent the budget on these other parts, and I thought
    that a 9
    > speed cassette is the same high to low width than 8 speed, its just the
    spacing
    > which is different. So - the only thing I can think of is that the
    chain is too
    > thick...
    >
    > So in my usual round about way - all I need to know is - will a 9-speed
    chain
    > help? Is it indeed thinner, as I only need to save about 1mm to prevent
    the
    > rubbing? and will a 9-speed chain work with an 8-speed cassette?
    >
    > Cheers then
    >
    > CandT

    I've been all the way down the road you're on. I couldn't find anybody with strong feelings about
    which chain to use - just a slight leaning towards 9sp. I've used both and settled on 9sp without
    any problems because that because it gives better shifting on the front without any deterioration at
    the rear. The chain rubs on the front cage (XTR) each side in middle ring on small and big sprocket
    because... "it just does, and you're not supposed to use those combinations anyway".

    You have my sympathy with the problem. I have a short cage rear mech that won't accommodate a 9sp
    cassette. If I could only trash the shifters mech and cassette all at once.....

    Peter
     
  7. crazy6r54

    crazy6r54 Guest

    Yes a 9 speed chain will work with 8 speed clog.

    Fire up MTB 03
     
  8. I use XT or XTR 9 speed front derrailers wiht 8 speed chains, rear derrailers and cassettes, no
    problems what-so-ever. (currently 5 bikes in the household are set up like this.)
     
  9. Candt

    Candt Guest

    On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Wallace" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> Without wanting to incur the wrath of the newsgroup purists (you know
    >who you
    >> are), I need to ask a technical question, but one specific to MTB's, so
    >I'm
    >> asking here rather than rec.bicycles.tech...
    >>
    >> I had an 8 speed bike... STX 8 speed shifters, 8 speed cassette... I
    >was
    >> recently talked into buying an XT front mech by my wife (her brother
    >was working
    >> in the shop, and told me I had to buy something to make him look good -
    >how cool
    >> is that!!)
    >>
    >> Now, because the XT mech was incompatible with my crappy chainrings
    >(24-34-42),
    >> I bought a set of deore hollowtech 22-32-44 9-speed rings with cranks,
    >and of
    >> course - the essential XT rear mech too.... (This shop had 35% off a
    >bunch of
    >> shimano stuff - so it was a great price)
    >>
    >> Now, I'm quite good at setting up gearing, and I bought a new BB to
    >improve the
    >> chainline which was too wide at the front with the lower profile
    >cranks, and am
    >> basically there, all gears can be shifted into. The trouble is - the
    >chain just
    >> about rubs on the front derailleur on one side of the other. ie Lets
    >say your in
    >> the middle chainring, if the chain is just touching one side on the 1st
    >cassette
    >> cog, I can tighten the cable so its not, but then it will touch on the
    >8th
    >> cog...
    >>
    >> Now I know a 9 speed cassette would be preferable, and matching
    >shifters too -
    >> but I've already spent the budget on these other parts, and I thought
    >that a 9
    >> speed cassette is the same high to low width than 8 speed, its just the
    >spacing
    >> which is different. So - the only thing I can think of is that the
    >chain is too
    >> thick...
    >>
    >> So in my usual round about way - all I need to know is - will a 9-speed
    >chain
    >> help? Is it indeed thinner, as I only need to save about 1mm to prevent
    >the
    >> rubbing? and will a 9-speed chain work with an 8-speed cassette?
    >>
    >> Cheers then
    >>
    >> CandT
    >
    >I've been all the way down the road you're on. I couldn't find anybody with strong feelings about
    >which chain to use - just a slight leaning towards 9sp. I've used both and settled on 9sp without
    >any problems because that because it gives better shifting on the front without any deterioration
    >at the rear. The chain rubs on the front cage (XTR) each side in middle ring on small and big
    >sprocket because... "it just does, and you're not supposed to use those combinations anyway".
    >
    >You have my sympathy with the problem. I have a short cage rear mech that won't accommodate a 9sp
    >cassette. If I could only trash the shifters mech and cassette all at once.....
    >
    >Peter
    >
    Interestingly - I've got the short cage XT variant too... I didnt know it is restricted to 8 speed?
    I thought it had a Mega-9 compatible sticker on it???

    Cheers

    CandT
     
  10. "CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Wallace" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >

    > >
    > >You have my sympathy with the problem. I have a short cage rear mech that won't accommodate a 9sp
    > >cassette. If I could only trash the shifters mech and cassette all at once.....
    > >
    > >Peter
    > >
    > Interestingly - I've got the short cage XT variant too... I didnt know
    it is
    > restricted to 8 speed? I thought it had a Mega-9 compatible sticker on
    it???
    >
    > Cheers
    >
    > CandT

    It's a while since I did the research and, from memory, it's an XTR cassette problem. The sort cage
    mech doesn't have the reach to deal with the larger big sprocket?

    Peter
     
  11. "Peter Wallace" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Wallace" <pe[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    >
    > > >
    > > >You have my sympathy with the problem. I have a short cage rear mech that won't accommodate a
    > > >9sp cassette. If I could only trash the shifters mech and cassette all at once.....
    > > >
    > > >Peter
    > > >
    > > Interestingly - I've got the short cage XT variant too... I didnt know
    > it is
    > > restricted to 8 speed? I thought it had a Mega-9 compatible sticker on
    > it???
    > >
    > > Cheers
    > >
    > > CandT
    >
    > It's a while since I did the research and, from memory, it's an XTR cassette problem. The sort
    > cage mech doesn't have the reach to deal with the larger big sprocket?
    >
    > Peter

    The trashing of all at once can be arranged - just let me know. While you're at it why not upgrade
    those brakes and get a bouncy frame :)

    It's the large cog that's the problem - short cage mechs don't (theoretically) wrap enough chain to
    cope with cogs bigger than 28, it happens at all levels from XTR down.

    You can get away with it but you have to be very careful about gear selection aparently.

    Russ
     
  12. "russell pinder" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Peter Wallace" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "CandT" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > On Fri, 14 Feb 2003 18:54:47 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Wallace" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > >
    > > > >
    > > > >You have my sympathy with the problem. I have a short cage rear
    mech
    > > > >that won't accommodate a 9sp cassette. If I could only trash the shifters mech and cassette
    > > > >all at once.....
    > > > >
    > > > >Peter
    > > > >
    > > > Interestingly - I've got the short cage XT variant too... I didnt
    know
    > > it is
    > > > restricted to 8 speed? I thought it had a Mega-9 compatible sticker
    on
    > > it???
    > > >
    > > > Cheers
    > > >
    > > > CandT
    > >
    > > It's a while since I did the research and, from memory, it's an XTR cassette problem. The sort
    > > cage mech doesn't have the reach to deal with the larger big sprocket?
    > >
    > > Peter
    >
    > The trashing of all at once can be arranged - just let me know. While
    you're
    > at it why not upgrade those brakes and get a bouncy frame :)
    >
    > It's the large cog that's the problem - short cage mechs don't (theoretically) wrap enough chain
    > to cope with cogs bigger than 28, it happens at all levels from XTR down.
    >
    > You can get away with it but you have to be very careful about gear selection aparently.
    >

    I'm indebted to you for your wisdom and advice. Now **** off. :)

    Peter-the-Luddite
     
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