8 Speed Campag on a 9/10 speed hub

[MSA]

Is it possible (Pete!)?

8 Speed Campag onto a 9/10 campag hub. Sure I've read somewhere that by
using Shimano spacers or something this is possible?

Any suggestions greatly appreciated (for a friends bike, not mine).

Thanks in advance.


--
Mark (MSA)
This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling
of contents may have occurred during transmission

 

[Pete Biggs]

MSA wrote:

> Is it possible (Pete!)?

Hello, 'Nothing like a Campag question to wind me down from a hot ride
......

> 8 Speed Campag onto a 9/10 campag hub. Sure I've read somewhere that
> by using Shimano spacers or something this is possible?

Even though the pattern is different, I think 8sp sprockets do fit on
9/10sp hubs BUT the aluminium hub splines would get chewed up. The
shallow 8sp sprocket tabs are designed for steel freehub bodies.

The best solution is to use 9-speed Mirage or Veloce cassette with a
spacer kit and one sprocket missed out (any but the smallest; largest
best). (Mirage/Veloce comprise all loose sprockets; other models don't).

3.3 or 3.4 mm spacers are required + approx 1.5mm spacer behind cassette
to bulk it out.

Campag make a kit especially--a good Campag dealer should order one, or
Marchisio spacers could be used. Campag 3.2mm* 8sp spacers might be close
enough but note that 9sp sprockets are thinner so indexing wouldn't be
perfect.

* S Brown says 3.1 but I make them 3.2
- www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html#spacing

~PB

 

[Simon Brooke]

in message <[email protected]>, Pete Biggs
('pblackcherry{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc') wrote:

> MSA wrote:
>
>> Is it possible (Pete!)?
>
> Hello, 'Nothing like a Campag question to wind me down from a hot
> ride
> ......

OK, well let's wind you down further...

There's plenty of eight-speed Campag kit on ebay at present going for
relatively small money (e.g., two sets of Chorus Ergo levers both
ending on Saturday, eight speed currently sitting at £14.50, ten speed
at £51.51):
<URL:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3691792029>
<URL:http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3691236065>

I'm in the process of gradually upgrading my road bike, and the question
in my head is do I go for second hand Record/Chorus eight speed kit, or
new ten speed, in which case what I can probably afford is Centaur.

What fits with what? Do all Campag ergos pull the same amount of cable?
What is the effective difference between an eight speed and a ten speed
deraileur? Can I freely mix Centaur, Chorus and Record groupsets or
will something go horribly wrong? Are there key dates/technology
changes to beware of?

Oh, and finally, not really a Campag question: currently I have (brazed
on) downtube shifters, so I don't have stops on my downtube for the
bottom end of the ergo outer cables. You surely must be able to get
band on stops, or even stops which bolt into the downtube shifter lugs,
but I don't see any in the catalogues... where do I find these?

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/
;; Sending your money to someone just because they've erected
;; a barrier of obscurity and secrets around the tools you
;; need to use your data does not help the economy or spur
;; innovation. - Waffle Iron Slashdot, June 16th, 2002

 

[Clive George]

"Simon Brooke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Oh, and finally, not really a Campag question: currently I have (brazed
> on) downtube shifters, so I don't have stops on my downtube for the
> bottom end of the ergo outer cables. You surely must be able to get
> band on stops, or even stops which bolt into the downtube shifter lugs,
> but I don't see any in the catalogues... where do I find these?

Don't they come with the levers?

cheers,
clive

 

[Dave Larrington]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> Oh, and finally, not really a Campag question: currently I have
> (brazed on) downtube shifters, so I don't have stops on my downtube
> for the bottom end of the ergo outer cables. You surely must be able
> to get band on stops, or even stops which bolt into the downtube
> shifter lugs, but I don't see any in the catalogues... where do I
> find these?

Here? <URL: http://www.sjscycles.com/store/vIndex.htm?cat668.htm>

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[davek]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> There's plenty of eight-speed Campag kit on ebay at present going for
> relatively small money

Hey, hands off - I saw them first!

Actually, it was last week that I was looking at the Chorus shifters so
not the same ones. And anyway, the price went right up towards the end,
which made me think twice about bidding.

> What is the effective difference between an eight speed and a ten speed
> deraileur?

Width of cage/jockey wheels, I think. A 10-speed derailler might be too
narrow for an 8-speed chain.

> Oh, and finally, not really a Campag question: currently I have (brazed
> on) downtube shifters, so I don't have stops on my downtube for the
> bottom end of the ergo outer cables. You surely must be able to get
> band on stops, or even stops which bolt into the downtube shifter lugs,
> but I don't see any in the catalogues... where do I find these?

SJS are good for that kind of thing - I know because I've looked there
for the same in the past. Never found quite exactly what I was looking
for, but then my DT shifters are band-on rather than braze-on so you may
have more luck.

d.

 

[Pete Biggs]

Simon Brooke wrote:
> There's plenty of eight-speed Campag kit on ebay at present going for
> relatively small money (e.g., two sets of Chorus Ergo levers both
> ending on Saturday, eight speed currently sitting at £14.50, ten speed
> at £51.51):

Chorus stuff tends to fetch high prices in the end, even old versions of
it. Buyers get carried away by the "Chorus" badge :-( Bound to be last
minute snipes on those items mentioned.

> I'm in the process of gradually upgrading my road bike, and the
> question in my head is do I go for second hand Record/Chorus eight
> speed kit, or new ten speed, in which case what I can probably afford
> is Centaur.

You could also go for 9-speed: it is still available, up to Centaur at
least from Parker International, or even certain mixtures of 8, 9 and 10
if careful.

New Centaur 9/10sp is very decent: better than old Chorus and Record:
major advancements with Ergos and hubs, and derailleurs are lightweight,
brakes are excellent. Or you could nab those used Chorus 10sp Ergos and
buy new Centaur mechs, etc -- would be very good and sensible combination
if the levers really were in good condition. 2003 Chorus cranks & BB
would be nice with it but they are terribly expensive.

> What fits with what? Do all Campag ergos pull the same amount of
> cable?

No, but there is some compatibility because the sprocket spacing is
different as well.

spacing shifter pull ratio
Campag 8sp 5.00 3.50 1.43
Campag old 9sp 4.55 3.20 1.43
Campag new 9sp 4.55 3.05 1.50
Campag 10sp 4.12 2.76 1.50

This should mean pre-2001 9sp rear mechs can be used with 8sp Ergos, and
10sp mechs with 9sp Ergos (once the jockey wheel washers are changed).
Note that some people say old and new 9sp "works fine" together but that's
not what I found when I tried it: might be okay with brand new equipment
(with no slop) but not a good idea with used components, IMO

> What is the effective difference between an eight speed and a
> ten speed deraileur?

1. 10sp travels a different amount per index click.

2. Different jockey wheels.

> Can I freely mix Centaur, Chorus and Record
> groupsets or
> will something go horribly wrong?

They can be freely mixed, with one exception being certain cranks and
bottom brackets (for later models at least): Centaur and lower bottom
brackets are not suitable for Chorus and Record cranks.

> Are there key dates/technology changes to beware of?

2001 for 9-speed: cable pull & rear mech changed. (Some people mistakenly
think the year of change was 2000).

8sp Ergos aren't as good as 9/10sp ones: much less comfortable, with
inferior shifting, IMO, and you may not be able to get all spares for
them. Ergo levers do eventually need overhauling to replace the ratchet
springs; well used Ergos may have soft and sloppy shifting.

> Oh, and finally, not really a Campag question: currently I have
> (brazed on) downtube shifters, so I don't have stops on my downtube
> for the bottom end of the ergo outer cables. You surely must be able
> to get
> band on stops, or even stops which bolt into the downtube shifter
> lugs, but I don't see any in the catalogues... where do I find these?

Down tube stops are supplied with new Ergos and can be bought seperately
(cheaply from Ribble).

~PB

 

[David E. Belcher]

Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

> I'm in the process of gradually upgrading my road bike, and the question
> in my head is do I go for second hand Record/Chorus eight speed kit, or
> new ten speed, in which case what I can probably afford is Centaur.

When it comes to replacing bits of transmission, Campag 8sp cassettes
are still available, even if the levers and mechs aren't. No problem
finding an 8sp chain, either.

> What fits with what? Do all Campag ergos pull the same amount of cable?
> What is the effective difference between an eight speed and a ten speed
> deraileur? Can I freely mix Centaur, Chorus and Record groupsets or
> will something go horribly wrong? Are there key dates/technology
> changes to beware of?

There's quite a lot that can be mixed; 10sp stuff from all three can
obviously be interchanged, and the same applies to 9sp stuff. Pre- and
post-2001 Campag 9sp stuff is allegedly incompatible (they changed the
lever and mech designs and hence the cable pull rations, apparently),
though actual user feedback on u.r.c and elsewhere suggests otherwise.
For what it's worth, I use a Campag 8sp cassette and rear mech with a
9sp Ergo lever on my road bike, with no shifting problems to date.

David E. Belcher

 

[MSA]

In article <[email protected]>, deb107
[email protected] says...
> Simon Brooke <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
>
> > I'm in the process of gradually upgrading my road bike, and the question
> > in my head is do I go for second hand Record/Chorus eight speed kit, or
> > new ten speed, in which case what I can probably afford is Centaur.
>
> When it comes to replacing bits of transmission, Campag 8sp cassettes
> are still available, even if the levers and mechs aren't. No problem
> finding an 8sp chain, either.
>
> > What fits with what? Do all Campag ergos pull the same amount of cable?
> > What is the effective difference between an eight speed and a ten speed
> > deraileur? Can I freely mix Centaur, Chorus and Record groupsets or
> > will something go horribly wrong? Are there key dates/technology
> > changes to beware of?
>
> There's quite a lot that can be mixed; 10sp stuff from all three can
> obviously be interchanged, and the same applies to 9sp stuff. Pre- and
> post-2001 Campag 9sp stuff is allegedly incompatible (they changed the
> lever and mech designs and hence the cable pull rations, apparently),
> though actual user feedback on u.r.c and elsewhere suggests otherwise.
> For what it's worth, I use a Campag 8sp cassette and rear mech with a
> 9sp Ergo lever on my road bike, with no shifting problems to date.
>
> David E. Belcher
>


Thanks for all the info guys, I've passed it onto my friend to make the
decision on which way forward. Glad it's not me with the problem for a
change


--
Mark (MSA)
This post is packaged by intellectual weight, not volume. Some settling
of contents may have occurred during transmission