8 speed STI problems

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Lou D'Amelio, Dec 20, 2003.

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  1. Lou D'Amelio

    Lou D'Amelio Guest

    Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about
    15,000 miles on them, about 12K when this was my primary bike and
    about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:

    L hand shifter - when upshifting, doesn't "catch" and cable slips back, making me unable to get to
    the big ring. After 4 or 5 tries, it will catch in the intermediate trim position, then I can shift
    up to the big ring. Is it more likely that something is shot inside and it needs replacement or is
    this just a reflection of age/ accumulated grime and they need a good off-the bike blast of WD-40 ?
    Anything I'm missing?

    R hand shifter: behaves fine in the stand. When outside, as the weather gets colder, the small
    lever doesn't click to release cable and move to smaller cogs. I might have to flick it 5-10 times
    to get a shift. Same question - just gummed up, shot to hell, or is there something I can replace
    ala a spring ?

    Thanks in advance for replies - please also copy my e-mail if you get a chance.

    Lou D'Amelio
     
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  2. Derek Hodges

    Derek Hodges Guest

    "Lou D'Amelio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them, about 12K
    > when this was my primary bike and about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:
    > (litany of complaints follows)
    I assume you're using index cables?
     
  3. "Lou D'Amelio" wrote:
    > Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them, about 12K
    > when this was my primary bike and about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:
    >
    > L hand shifter - when upshifting, doesn't "catch" and cable slips back, making me unable to get to
    > the big ring. After 4 or 5 tries, it will catch in the intermediate trim position, then I can
    > shift up to the big ring. Is it more likely that something is shot inside and it needs replacement
    > or is this just a reflection of age/ accumulated grime and they need a good off-the bike blast of
    > WD-40 ? Anything I'm missing?

    It's probably shot, but it wouldn't hurt to try the WD-40 routine. You might consider using a DT
    lever for the front.

    > R hand shifter: behaves fine in the stand. When outside, as the weather gets colder, the small
    > lever doesn't click to release cable and move to smaller cogs. I might have to flick it 5-10 times
    > to get a shift. Same question - just gummed up, shot to hell, or is there something I can replace
    > ala a spring ?

    That's fairly common. I'd first try replacing the cable and housings using a bit of oil (not grease)
    on the inner wire. If no go, try WD-40. If still no go, try eBay for replacements.

    Art Harris
     
  4. Mikeyankee

    Mikeyankee Guest

    Lou -- I had a similar problem on my Merckx last year with, if I recall, ~18k miles at the time.
    Nothing wrong with the levers, though. The problem turned out to be rust in the six-year-old STI
    cable housings impeding cable movement, even though the cables themselves had been replaced a few
    times, lightly greased, etc.

    Figuring my levers were shot, I was taking things apart to put my spare ones. As soon as I pulled
    the STI cables the rust was obvious. Hmmm, I thought, this may be the culprit! I put new housings on
    and retried the old levers -- they worked fine, and still do with 22k miles.

    Mike Yankee

    (Address is munged to thwart spammers. To reply, delete everything after "com".)
     
  5. Bfd

    Bfd Guest

    "Lou D'Amelio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them, about 12K
    > when this was my primary bike and about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:
    >
    > L hand shifter - when upshifting, doesn't "catch" and cable slips back, making me unable to get to
    > the big ring. After 4 or 5 tries, it will catch in the intermediate trim position, then I can
    > shift up to the big ring. Is it more likely that something is shot inside and it needs replacement
    > or is this just a reflection of age/ accumulated grime and they need a good off-the bike blast of
    > WD-40 ? Anything I'm missing?
    >
    > R hand shifter: behaves fine in the stand. When outside, as the weather gets colder, the small
    > lever doesn't click to release cable and move to smaller cogs. I might have to flick it 5-10 times
    > to get a shift. Same question - just gummed up, shot to hell, or is there something I can replace
    > ala a spring ?
    >
    Here's a few possible fixes that *might* work:

    easiest WD40 flush: http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/noisystilevers.htm

    Steve Alkire's 105/8spd disassembly/assembly
    http://www.cyclingforum.com/features/downloads/STIdisDetail.doc

    Bill Cotton's STI repair: http://www.billcotton.com/sti_shifter_repair.htm
     
  6. > It's probably shot, but it wouldn't hurt to try the WD-40 routine. You
    might
    > consider using a DT lever for the front.

    I would like to ask... using WD-40, wouldn't the oil in the suspension tend to gum up over
    time? Wouldn't it be better to use a true degreaser inside the lever and then silicone spray
    after it dries?

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  7. "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:

    > > It's probably shot, but it wouldn't hurt to try the WD-40 routine.

    > I would like to ask... using WD-40, wouldn't the oil in the suspension
    tend
    > to gum up over time? Wouldn't it be better to use a true degreaser inside the lever and then
    > silicone spray after it dries?

    The normal procedure is to give it a good flush with WD-40 which should get rid of most of the gunk.
    It's pretty much a last ditch effort to get a little more life out of the lever. Mike J. prefers
    Powerlube to WD-40.

    Art Harris
     
  8. Lou D'Amelio <[email protected]> wrote:
    : Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them, about 12K
    : when this was my primary bike and about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:

    I have just finished refurbishing a set of these same levers. The only real problem they had was
    that the grease inside the housings had transmogrified into a sticky, waxy goop. It wasn't clear
    whether this was the original Shimano grease (which I suspect) or the end result of owner enthusiastically-
    applied 'maintenance'.

    To be thorough I completely stripped and cleaned each spring, washer, pawl, plate, and surface. I
    greased the parts as I put the levers back together and they now work fine. To put your mind at
    ease, while there are quite a number of parts in the levers, they are mechanically fairly simple and
    robust. Springs are generally modestly stressed so it would be unlikely that any would need
    replacing. The 'bearing' surfaces are also quite large and more than adequate to take the loads
    asked of them. I saw no evidence of real wear - just witness marking. The only place that needed
    help was on the pickup point in the mechanism of the return lever pawl of the RH lever. It had
    become rounded so the chance of missing a shift to a smaller sprocket was increased. I simply filed
    it square again, probably removing 0.5mm. That would translate to about 1 more degree of lever
    travel before engaging the pawl - not noticeable.

    I wouldn't recommend stripping the levers as I've done. It takes meticulous care and unshakeable
    patience. I've done it a few times now on different levers and have a good mental map of how things
    fit back together which speeds things up no end, because, no matter how careful you are
    dissassembling, you will have to figure out how the levers work to get it all back together. And,
    the left lever is significanlty different to the right in just about all aspects so you'd have two
    cycling rubic's cubes to solve! I do this because I have a warped mind and enjoy such mechanical
    puzzles, but I realise not everyone else does. You could end up with a box of useless parts if you
    can't see the project through.

    From your description, it sound like the grease has passed its use-by date and is no longer
    functioning as a lubricant. Grab the WD40 and flush, flush, flush. It isn't a lubricant on its own
    so I would find a high quality light oil and get that in after the flushing and drying.

    Hope this help, cheerz, Lynzz
     
  9. Phil, Squid-in-Training <[email protected]> wrote:
    :> It's probably shot, but it wouldn't hurt to try the WD-40 routine. You
    : might
    :> consider using a DT lever for the front.

    : I would like to ask... using WD-40, wouldn't the oil in the suspension tend to gum up over
    : time? Wouldn't it be better to use a true degreaser inside the lever and then silicone spray
    : after it dries?

    Since when was WD-40 a lubricant? If it has any lubricating properties they are so slight as to be
    no possibility of gumming up.

    Cheerz, Lynzz
     
  10. Derek Hodges wrote:
    > "Lou D'Amelio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them, about 12K
    >> when this was my primary bike and about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:
    >> (litany of complaints follows)
    > I assume you're using index cables?

    What, precisely, are index cables?

    Rob Strickland
     
  11. > That's fairly common. I'd first try replacing the cable and housings using a bit of oil (not
    > grease) on the inner wire. If no go, try WD-40. If still no go, try eBay for replacements.
    >
    > Art Harris

    And if you'd prefer rebuildable levers consider Campy.

    Rob Strickland
     
  12. > From your description, it sound like the grease has passed its use-by date and is no longer
    > functioning as a lubricant. Grab the WD40 and flush, flush, flush. It isn't a lubricant on its own
    > so I would find a high quality light oil and get that in after the flushing and drying.

    Or, just pick up a can of PowerLube (available at finer auto-parts stores everywhere!) and flush
    away. PowerLube will both clean out the old goop *and* relube the levers nicely. WD40 is more a
    cleaner than a solvent; fi I were going to do the job in two separate parts (a cleaner and a lube),
    I'd use something made specifically for cleaning rather than WD40.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

    "Lindsay Rowlands" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Lou D'Amelio <[email protected]> wrote:
    > : Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them, about 12K
    > : when this was my primary bike and about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:
    >
    > I have just finished refurbishing a set of these same levers. The only real problem they had was
    > that the grease inside the housings had transmogrified into a sticky, waxy goop. It wasn't clear
    > whether this was the original Shimano grease (which I suspect) or the end result of owner enthusiastically-
    > applied 'maintenance'.
    >
    > To be thorough I completely stripped and cleaned each spring, washer, pawl, plate, and surface. I
    > greased the parts as I put the levers back together and they now work fine. To put your mind at
    > ease, while there are quite a number of parts in the levers, they are mechanically fairly simple
    > and robust. Springs are generally modestly stressed so it would be unlikely that any would need
    > replacing. The 'bearing' surfaces are also quite large and more than adequate to take the loads
    > asked of them. I saw no evidence of real wear - just witness marking. The only place that needed
    > help was on the pickup point in the mechanism of the return lever pawl of the RH lever. It had
    > become rounded so the chance of missing a shift to a smaller sprocket was increased. I simply
    > filed it square again, probably removing 0.5mm. That would translate to about 1 more degree of
    > lever travel before engaging the pawl - not noticeable.
    >
    > I wouldn't recommend stripping the levers as I've done. It takes meticulous care and unshakeable
    > patience. I've done it a few times now on different levers and have a good mental map of how
    > things fit back together which speeds things up no end, because, no matter how careful you are
    > dissassembling, you will have to figure out how the levers work to get it all back together. And,
    > the left lever is significanlty different to the right in just about all aspects so you'd have two
    > cycling rubic's cubes to solve! I do this because I have a warped mind and enjoy such mechanical
    > puzzles, but I realise not everyone else does. You could end up with a box of useless parts if you
    > can't see the project through.
    >
    > From your description, it sound like the grease has passed its use-by date and is no longer
    > functioning as a lubricant. Grab the WD40 and flush, flush, flush. It isn't a lubricant on its own
    > so I would find a high quality light oil and get that in after the flushing and drying.
    >
    > Hope this help, cheerz, Lynzz
     
  13. "Robert Strickland" wrote:
    > What, precisely, are index cables?

    This refers to the shift cable housing used with indexed systems. Brake cable housing uses a spiral
    wire through which the inner wire runs. Spiral housing was also used for shift cable housing before
    indexed systems came along. The "Indexed" housing uses a bundle of wires that run parallel to the
    cable. Shimano indexed housing is called SIS for Shimano Indexing System.

    For more info on this see:

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html#compressionless

    Art Harris
     
  14. idamelio-<< Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them
    >><BR><BR> << L hand shifter - when upshifting, doesn't "catch" and cable slips back, making me
    unable to get to the big ring. After 4 or 5 tries, >><BR><BR> << Is it more likely that something is
    shot inside and it needs replacement or is this just a reflection of age/ accumulated grime and they
    need a good off-the bike blast of WD-40 ? >><BR><BR>

    No way to replace anything inside as these are not repairable, no small parts offered by
    the 'Big S'.

    Try STI repair kit, liberal flush with WD-40-may help but i think it is 'adios' ....

    idamelio<< R hand shifter: behaves fine in the stand. When outside, as the weather gets colder, the
    small lever doesn't click to release cable and move to smaller cogs. I might have to flick it 5-10
    times to get a shift. Same question - just gummed up, shot to hell, or is there something I can
    replace ala a spring ? >><BR><BR>

    Same as the left-flush the things, amy try new cables/housing, ensuring no cable is frayed anywhere.

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  15. Lou D'Amelio

    Lou D'Amelio Guest

    > And if you'd prefer rebuildable levers consider Campy.
    >
    > Rob Strickland

    Done. My race / training ride has been Campy for the last 4 years. I'd never switch back. This, as I
    mentioned, is my winter beater - a compilation of parts on a warranty frame.
     
  16. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:

    > WD40 is more a cleaner than a solvent

    I think you meant to write "WD40 is more a cleaner than a _lube_". WD40 is mostly solvent.
    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://www.terrymorse.com/bike/
     
  17. > > WD40 is more a cleaner than a solvent
    >
    > I think you meant to write "WD40 is more a cleaner than a _lube_". WD40 is mostly solvent.
    > --

    Um, yeah, that's the ticket! No wonder I confuse some of my customers...

    Thanks. At least I didn't say it was more a lube than a solvent.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles www.ChainReaction.com
     
  18. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    Robert Strickland wrote:

    > Derek Hodges wrote:
    >
    >>"Lou D'Amelio" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>
    >>>Hi - I have Ultegra 8 speed on my winter beater. They have about 15,000 miles on them, about 12K
    >>>when this was my primary bike and about 3 k of bad-weather use. Noticing the following problems:
    >>>(litany of complaints follows)
    >>
    >>I assume you're using index cables?
    >
    >
    > What, precisely, are index cables?
    >
    >
    > Rob Strickland
    >
    >
    More correctly index casing; the stuff which is wound in a high helix, a.k.s.,
    "compressionless" casing.

    Normal spiral-wound (now called "brake casing") casing will not give as crisp a response at the end
    of a casing run. That is critial to today's sensitive index gear systems.

    Just about any modern wire will give good results in 5mm index casing, although some are smoother
    finish than others.

    In 4mm casing, a special thin wire is required.

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  19. Dvt

    Dvt Guest

    bfd wrote:
    > "Lou D'Amelio" <[email protected]> wrote ...
    >>L hand shifter - when upshifting, doesn't "catch" and cable slips back, making me unable to get to
    >>the big ring.

    I haven't experienced that one.

    >>R hand shifter: ...as the weather gets colder, the small lever doesn't click to release cable and
    >>move to smaller cogs.

    I've had that problem with two right STI levers. And I had a similar problem with one left lever. I
    used this procedure to start:

    > easiest WD40 flush: http://www.chainreactionbicycles.com/noisystilevers.htm

    That procedure alone seemed to get the levers working again for a month or two. But after a few
    repetitions of that, I decided to add some oil after the WD40 had been released. That was more than
    a year ago and I haven't had problems since. I suggest using your favorite chain lube since you
    probably have some on hand. I used chainsaw oil.

    Dave dvt at psu dot edu
     
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