8 speeds on a 7 speed cassette?

Is this possible? I'm on a team bike (read: put together from old parts because I'm a mountain biker
and don't feel like buying a new road bike), and we're going 8 speed downtube shifters. We've got a
really nice 7 speed wheel (just a busted spoke I need to replace), some not so nice 7 speed wheels,
and no 8 speed wheels. Damn.

Shifters are 8 speed, and I can pick up an 8 or 9 speed cassette from omewhere I'm sure.

We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the cassette
lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette. The pedros pit crew guys who helped me
out said it would work for a while, but would probably come loose sooner or later and not be
worth fixing.

So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one of
the cogs taken off?

If we do put an 8 speed wheel on there, will the frame need to be spread? Its an old lugged steel
Allez (I told you it was a cheap bike! did I mention heavy?), so spreading shouldn't be too hard. It
was also modified at one point for cyclocross, so it might already be spread if it needed to be.

Thanks!

Jon Bond

 

>From: Jonathan Bond

>We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the cassette
>lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette.

When I tried putting 7 cogs from an 8 speed XT cassette on a 7 speed freehub, I had the same problem
with the lockring from the 8 speed bottoming out on the hub and leaving the cassette a bit loose. I
tried using a lockring from my old 7 speed cassette and that worked fine! If that didn't work, I was
going to use a thin spacer behind the cassette. I've been using this setup for a while now and it
works fine.

>So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one of
>the cogs taken off?

9 speed cassette with one cog removed will work.

George F. Johnson A veteran for peace

 

Jonathan Bond wrote:
> Is this possible? I'm on a team bike (read: put together from old parts because I'm a mountain
> biker and don't feel like buying a new road bike), and we're going 8 speed downtube shifters.
> We've got a really nice 7 speed wheel (just a busted spoke I need to replace), some not so nice 7
> speed wheels, and no 8 speed wheels. Damn.
>
> Shifters are 8 speed, and I can pick up an 8 or 9 speed cassette from omewhere I'm sure.
>
> We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the cassette
> lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette. The pedros pit crew guys who helped me
> out said it would work for a while, but would probably come loose sooner or later and not be
> worth fixing.
>
> So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one
> of the cogs taken off?
>
> If we do put an 8 speed wheel on there, will the frame need to be spread? Its an old lugged
> steel Allez (I told you it was a cheap bike! did I mention heavy?), so spreading shouldn't be
> too hard. It was also modified at one point for cyclocross, so it might already be spread if it
> needed to be.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jon Bond
>
Sorry jon, there is no quick and easy way to put 8 on a 7. you need to change the freehub and axle
then redish. 8sp freehubs are fairly cheap ~$25, used axles are a dime a doz. the dust caps *may*
give you problems depending on which 7sp it was.

 

James Connell wrote:
> Jonathan Bond wrote:
>
>> Is this possible? I'm on a team bike (read: put together from old parts because I'm a mountain
>> biker and don't feel like buying a new road bike), and we're going 8 speed downtube shifters.
>> We've got a really nice 7 speed wheel (just a busted spoke I need to replace), some not so nice 7
>> speed wheels, and no 8 speed wheels. Damn.
>>
>> Shifters are 8 speed, and I can pick up an 8 or 9 speed cassette from omewhere I'm sure.
>>
>> We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the cassette
>> lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette. The pedros pit crew guys who helped me
>> out said it would work for a while, but would probably come loose sooner or later and not be
>> worth fixing.
>>
>> So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one
>> of the cogs taken off?
>>
>> If we do put an 8 speed wheel on there, will the frame need to be spread? Its an old lugged
>> steel Allez (I told you it was a cheap bike! did I mention heavy?), so spreading shouldn't be
>> too hard. It was also modified at one point for cyclocross, so it might already be spread if it
>> needed to be.
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>> Jon Bond
>>
> Sorry jon, there is no quick and easy way to put 8 on a 7. you need to change the freehub and axle
> then redish. 8sp freehubs are fairly cheap ~$25, used axles are a dime a doz. the dust caps *may*
> give you problems depending on which 7sp it was.
>

Ok, we've got a nice 8/9 speed hub, if the guy isn't lying to me (like he did when he said he'd have
my bike built up, and I had to put everything but the fork, bars, and stem on it!) I shouldn't need
to spread the frame, right?

Thanks again

Jon Bond

 

Jonathan Bond <[email protected]> wrote:
> Shifters are 8 speed, and I can pick up an 8 or 9 speed cassette from omewhere I'm sure.

> We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the cassette
> lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette. The pedros pit crew guys who helped me
> out said it would work for a while, but would probably come loose sooner or later and not be
> worth fixing.

> So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one
> of the cogs taken off?

You can use a 7 speed cassette (inexpensive) or 7 from an 8 speed cassette plus a thin spacer or two
to keep the lockring from bottoming out. 7s and 8s spacing are nearly the same, so the 8s shifters
will shift an 7s cassette.

8 cogs from a 9s cassette will fit onto the 7s hub, but the spacing is different, so then you need
9s shifters.

If you want fairly economical bar mounted shifting, look out for a pair of 8s barend shifters, they
will be an improvement over the DT shifters.

I would just do the 7 cog (or 7 of 8) route to get on the road right away, and in the meantime poke
around for a deal on some barend or STI shifters.

> If we do put an 8 speed wheel on there, will the frame need to be spread? Its an old lugged
> steel Allez (I told you it was a cheap bike! did I mention heavy?), so spreading shouldn't be
> too hard. It was also modified at one point for cyclocross, so it might already be spread if it
> needed to be.

Yes, 7s road spacing is 126mm and 8s/9s is 130mm, so the frame needs to be spread to get an 8s hub
in, not very much.

Don't be too hard on the Allez, Specialized road frames were usually pretty decent, and you'd be
surprised, the frameset is likely only a couple of pounds heavier than a fairly high zoot modern
frameset (and half of that comes from the modern carbon fork).

 

Benjamin Weiner wrote:
> Jonathan Bond <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>Shifters are 8 speed, and I can pick up an 8 or 9 speed cassette from omewhere I'm sure.
>
>
>>We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the cassette
>>lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette. The pedros pit crew guys who helped me
>>out said it would work for a while, but would probably come loose sooner or later and not be
>>worth fixing.
>
>
>>So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one
>>of the cogs taken off?
>
>
> You can use a 7 speed cassette (inexpensive) or 7 from an 8 speed cassette plus a thin spacer or
> two to keep the lockring from bottoming out. 7s and 8s spacing are nearly the same, so the 8s
> shifters will shift an 7s cassette.
>
> 8 cogs from a 9s cassette will fit onto the 7s hub, but the spacing is different, so then you need
> 9s shifters.
>
> If you want fairly economical bar mounted shifting, look out for a pair of 8s barend shifters,
> they will be an improvement over the DT shifters.
>
> I would just do the 7 cog (or 7 of 8) route to get on the road right away, and in the meantime
> poke around for a deal on some barend or STI shifters.

Technically its a team bike, and I'm dropping all my cash into my new mountain bike, so unless I can
convince the road captain/president to use team funds to build up the bike (I'm the mountain bike
captain now), then its probably going to stick with the downtube shifters.

>>If we do put an 8 speed wheel on there, will the frame need to be spread? Its an old lugged
>>steel Allez (I told you it was a cheap bike! did I mention heavy?), so spreading shouldn't be
>>too hard. It was also modified at one point for cyclocross, so it might already be spread if it
>>needed to be.
>
>
> Yes, 7s road spacing is 126mm and 8s/9s is 130mm, so the frame needs to be spread to get an 8s hub
> in, not very much.
>
> Don't be too hard on the Allez, Specialized road frames were usually pretty decent, and you'd be
> surprised, the frameset is likely only a couple of pounds heavier than a fairly high zoot modern
> frameset (and half of that comes from the modern carbon fork).

Its a nice frame, just everything on it is pretty heavy at this point. I think its only a couple
pounds lighter than my XT equipped (straight gauge aluminum framed) hardtail! Not like that bike
didn't start out at 30 lbs, though...

Another quick question: Any benefit from going to a threadless fork, headset, and stem? I already
need to buy a new quill stem, because the rise is way too low for me, and they're getting hard to
find. I'm sure I can find a 1" threadless fork around somewhere - my coach has all sorts of parts
lying around, and since I have to buy a new stem anyway I don't mind doing that. Since its just a
cheap bike, a $20 headset will
do...

Thanks for the help! Now if it would just warm up a bit so my lungs wouldn't die...

Jon Bond

 

Jonathan Bond wrote:
>
>
> James Connell wrote:
>
>> Jonathan Bond wrote:
>>
>>> Is this possible? I'm on a team bike (read: put together from old parts because I'm a mountain
>>> biker and don't feel like buying a new road bike), and we're going 8 speed downtube shifters.
>>> We've got a really nice 7 speed wheel (just a busted spoke I need to replace), some not so nice
>>> 7 speed wheels, and no 8 speed wheels. Damn.
>>>
>>> Shifters are 8 speed, and I can pick up an 8 or 9 speed cassette from omewhere I'm sure.
>>>
>>> We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the
>>> cassette lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette. The pedros pit crew guys who
>>> helped me out said it would work for a while, but would probably come loose sooner or later and
>>> not be worth fixing.
>>>
>>> So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one
>>> of the cogs taken off?
>>>
>>> If we do put an 8 speed wheel on there, will the frame need to be spread? Its an old lugged
>>> steel Allez (I told you it was a cheap bike! did I mention heavy?), so spreading shouldn't be
>>> too hard. It was also modified at one point for cyclocross, so it might already be spread if it
>>> needed to be.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> Jon Bond
>>>
>> Sorry jon, there is no quick and easy way to put 8 on a 7. you need to change the freehub and
>> axle then redish. 8sp freehubs are fairly cheap ~$25, used axles are a dime a doz. the dust caps
>> *may* give you problems depending on which 7sp it was.
>>
>
> Ok, we've got a nice 8/9 speed hub, if the guy isn't lying to me (like he did when he said he'd
> have my bike built up, and I had to put everything but the fork, bars, and stem on it!) I
> shouldn't need to spread the frame, right?
>
> Thanks again
>
> Jon Bond
>

jon isaac is right about the 7sp dura-ace hub - if it's one of them you're screwed! the hub to
freehub mateing is different then all others. the 8sps are all the same as 7sp ultegra and down.

YES you will need to spread the frame *if* the distance is not right ~130mm (7sp is 126mm)! it's not
hard to do but be carefull, i can't remember if the allez had a 'dish' in the chain stay for chain
ring clearence or not, but if both chain stays aren't the same shape you can bend one more that the
other. a set of dropout gages work well to spread the frame. just keep screwing them out till
relaxed they are *just* more than 130.0mm and are straight. if you apply a light touch with a rubber
mallet to the chain stays near the BB it will 'ease' them into place. a straight edge pinched
between the dropout gages will tell you which side is moving more than the other. good luck.

 

Jonathan Bond <[email protected]> wrote:

> Another quick question: Any benefit from going to a threadless fork, headset, and stem? I already
> need to buy a new quill stem, because the rise is way too low for me, and they're getting hard to
> find. I'm sure I can find a 1" threadless fork around somewhere - my coach has all sorts of parts
> lying around, and since I have to buy a new stem anyway I don't mind doing that. Since its just a
> cheap bike, a $20 headset will
> do...

I don't think so. Especially since you are new to the road bike, a quill stem that offers easy
up/down adjustability while you tinker with position is not a bad idea. (I know threadless stems can
offer this too, but then you need to find an uncut fork to get the bars up.) Quill stems are a
little less common but lots of people probably have ones lying around, or you can find one cheaply,
which helps since you are trying not to throw too much money at the bike. I think Nashbar has some
on closeout. Rivendell and Harris Cyclery sell stems that will let you get the bars way way up
there, if necessary.

Good luck and enjoy the road bike. It will help with training, and be enjoyable in itself (just
don't tell a.m-b).

 

Benjamin Weiner wrote:
> Jonathan Bond <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Another quick question: Any benefit from going to a threadless fork, headset, and stem? I already
>>need to buy a new quill stem, because the rise is way too low for me, and they're getting hard to
>>find. I'm sure I can find a 1" threadless fork around somewhere - my coach has all sorts of parts
>>lying around, and since I have to buy a new stem anyway I don't mind doing that. Since its just a
>>cheap bike, a $20 headset will
>>do...
>
>
> I don't think so. Especially since you are new to the road bike, a quill stem that offers easy
> up/down adjustability while you tinker with position is not a bad idea. (I know threadless stems
> can offer this too, but then you need to find an uncut fork to get the bars up.) Quill stems are a
> little less common but lots of people probably have ones lying around, or you can find one
> cheaply, which helps since you are trying not to throw too much money at the bike. I think Nashbar
> has some on closeout. Rivendell and Harris Cyclery sell stems that will let you get the bars way
> way up there, if necessary.

We've got a team doc (www.bikedoctraining.com) who will do bike fitting, so I have to go talk to
him. The bike is only a little bit small, so I won't need like riser bars or anything

> Good luck and enjoy the road bike. It will help with training, and be enjoyable in itself (just
> don't tell a.m-b).

Heh, I already told 'em about the crit race we put on (and was my first time on a road bike... scary
shite, especially since its the hardest course in the eastern collegiate cycling conference!!!!).

Now - to shave the legs, or not to? (KIDDING!)

Jon Bond

 

Jonathan Bond wrote:
> Is this possible? I'm on a team bike (read: put together from old parts because I'm a mountain
> biker and don't feel like buying a new road bike), and we're going 8 speed downtube shifters.
> We've got a really nice 7 speed wheel (just a busted spoke I need to replace), some not so nice 7
> speed wheels, and no 8 speed wheels. Damn.
>
> Shifters are 8 speed, and I can pick up an 8 or 9 speed cassette from omewhere I'm sure.
>
> We put 7 cogs from an 8 speed cassette on one of the not so nice 7 speed wheels, and the cassette
> lockring bottoms out against the hub, not the cassette. The pedros pit crew guys who helped me
> out said it would work for a while, but would probably come loose sooner or later and not be
> worth fixing.
>
> So, is there a way to throw 8 speeds on that 7 speed cog? New spacers? 9 speed cassette with one
> of the cogs taken off?
>
> If we do put an 8 speed wheel on there, will the frame need to be spread? Its an old lugged
> steel Allez (I told you it was a cheap bike! did I mention heavy?), so spreading shouldn't be
> too hard. It was also modified at one point for cyclocross, so it might already be spread if it
> needed to be.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jon Bond
>

Thanks for the help! Unless I'm completely of my rocker, and the hub is actually a 7 speed
freewheel, then the new (used) wheel fits fine. Looking at the other hub, it looks like the guy
added some spacers to it so he could run a 7 speed wheel on it. It also has v brake tabs should I
ever want to cyclocross it, which is what the previous owner/donator used it for.

thanks!

Jon Bond