9 speed Cassette change 11-30 to a 11 - 34

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Flatbardave, Dec 18, 2015.

  1. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Prepping for the TDPS, & the first 15 - 20 mile part of the ride is up hill.
    Sirrus carbon elite disc.

    These old legs needed a little help on the hills. Sirrus had 9 speed 11-30
    I put a used 11-34 on the Sirrus to try it for fit.
    Maxed out the deraileur when on 34 & 34 going to 50 on the crank.
    Yea... DON"T DO THAT, but have yet to stop shifting until the shifter stops working.

    Researched chain length, was 112 link , math formula says I need 114 link.
    ordered a KMS x9SL (116 link) (& a park chain tool)
    popped off 2 links & it fit & shifts OK.
    even though I'm 2 teeth over the RDR 32 teeth max. (Medium cage Shimano Sora)


    Have a new cassette (11-34) on the way, old one using for testing had 1200 miles on it
    off the skye mtb which now has a 11-30 off the sirrus) .

    If I could've gone to a 36, I would've.
    Don't want to give up the 50 - 11 down hill speed so don't want to change the crank.
    (Unless down from the 34 to a 32 or 30, which gets into the derailuer
    not keep the chain tight on the Low/Low gear. (& not sure what happens on the front derailleur)

    Now 4 tubes (2 for spares in the saddle bag) & slime & another water bottle holder
    new pedals (Shimanop A320s) multi tool , chain links, pump patch kit.
    + box up the bike & oversize airline baggage fee

    New to cycling, ( less than a year)
    (What I've learned in less than a year, bikes are black holes to throw money into ) LOL :)


     
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  2. Volnix

    Volnix Well-Known Member

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    Why not? Even if not using something less than compact (30-42 or something) you could just run a triple. :)
     
  3. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FWIW. Because I had read that some people were not able to use a Cassette which had a 36t Cog on their bike with their rear derailleurs, a few months ago I finally decided to see whether-or-not a 36t Cog exceeded the capacity of any-or-all-of my rear derailleurs ...

    It's true that a Shimano ROAD rear derailleur (which is what your SORA is) probably cannot be used with a Cassette which has a 36t Cog ...​

    Regardless, much to my chagrin, the ONLY (?) modern rear derailleurs which I was immediately concerned with which cannot handle a 36t Cog are the relatively recent iterations of the Campagnolo's over-the-knuckle-parallelogram-plate rear derailleurs whose shorter cage is the apparent reason that the parallelogram on some (?) later versions appears to be angled at ~45º from the horizontal.

    For the moment, my current "test" bike (the disdained in another thread FUJI S10-S) has a ~1998 Campagnolo Mirage (medium cage) rear derailleur + an 11-36 10-speed Shimano Cassette & 52-39 Crankset ...

    I'll probably be switching the 10-speed Cassette for a 12-36 9-speed Cassette.​

    The so-called 10-speed Campagnolo rear derailleurs (2001-2008?) seem to be good-to-go with a 36 Cog, too!

    Anyway, what THAT means is that I was misinformed by SANTANA's indication-and-suggestion that beyond using a ShiftMate, the only way for a Tandem to be set up with Campagnolo shifters would be to hubbub a Shimano MTB rear derailleur due to Campagnolo's stated ultra-conservative-and-incorrect 29t limit (that 29t limit is apparently based on frames whose derailleur hanger has "zero" drop from the dropout because they were designed to be used with the vertical parallelogram rear derailleurs).
    That's probably a long way of saying that you can use a 9-speed Cassette which has a 36t Cog ... and, I suspect that people who say they cannot configure their bike with a Cassette which has a 36t Cog either haven't tried OR their LBS's Wrench hasn't tried OR they are hamfisted.
    FYI. You can re-stack a 12-36 9-speed Cassette with the smaller Cogs from another Cassette (e.g., from your 11-30 Cassette).

    BTW. YOU may want to replace your medium cage SORA rear derailleur with a "normal pull" (vs. "rapid rise" / "reverse pull") Shimano SLX-or-XT rear derailleur which has an SGS cage (the MEDIUM cage on a Shimano MTB rear derailleur is approximately equivalent to a LONG cage on a Shimano Road rear derailleur) ...

    There are medium cage (GS) Shimano MTB rear derailleurs, but it probably isn't worth the effort to look for one.

     
  4. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

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    Which Shimano rear derailleur does your Sirrus have? You can look up the cassette capacity of that unit on Shimano.com, and, usually, you can push that capacity by 2 teeth, but it will almost always require tightening the B screw and it might require getting a longer chain.

    If you're considering swapping the rear derailleur, note that all Shimano 8- and 9-speed MTB rear derailleurs are compatible with all 8-, 9-, and 10-speed road derailleurs. This does not extend to front derailleurs, 10- and 11-speed MTB rear derailleurs, and 11-speed road rear derailleurs.
     
  5. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Yea
    Have thought about a triple if I need to go much lower

    Also thinking about a 2 x 10 with 50/34 & a 11-36 cassette.
    Maybe go Sram but didn't know if I need a new crank ,
    50/34, 9 speed on it now, do I need 50/34, 10 speed crank or
    will a 10 speed cain work on the derailleur & width of the 9 speed compact crank.
     
  6. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    So I can put an 11 cog on a 12 -36 cassette & make it an 11- 36 ?
    & will need to replace the RDR , go long cage ?
    Will I need to replace the shifter if I stay with a Shimano RDR ?

    I need to actually put some miles on it & see how I & it perform.
    when someone gets a 2 x 11, 50/34 & a 10-42 cassette, that will be my ticket :)
    ( Old man gearing for hills & speed. )
     
  7. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Specs : http://www.specialized.com/us/en/bikes/archive/2015/sirrus/sirrus-elite-carbon-disc#specs

    Came with 50/34 crank & 11-30 cassette Sora RDR derailleur med cage ( Sora no made in long cage)
    I pushed it 2 teeth, max says 32t. I put on a 11-34.
    Don't know if I need more, will find out after I get a chance to put some miles on it.
     
  8. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about derailleurs, not shifters. If you get an 11-speed cassette, you'll need the full set of 11-speed derailleurs and shifers.

    The spec sheet says your Sirrus Elite Carbon Disc has a 2x9 Sora drivetrain. The photo shows a GS (long cage) rear derailleur. Shimano says this has a maximum tooth capacity (on rear sprocket) of 32t, and a total takeup capacity of 41t.

    To find your total takeup, add the difference between the largest and smallest cassette cogs and the largest and smallest chainrings. (30-11) + (50-34) = 35. You're currently in spec.

    If you get an 11-32t cassette, you'll still be in spec. (32-11) + (50 - 34) = 37. You might be able to push this derailleur to an 11-34t cassette. (34 - 11) + (50 - 34) = 39. This will almost definitely require a longer chain. Larger than 34t, you will need to look at Shimano 9-speed MTB derailleurs.
     
  9. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    I put an 11-34 (was 11-30) on it now. & had to use a 114 link chain (2 up from a 112)

    They make a 12-36 cassette, 9 speed.
    but not gonna go there, unless I need a lower gear.
    A 9 speed, 11-36 cassette would be nice though.

    I'll see in a few weeks how the 11-34 works for me on hills.
     
  10. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

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    Glad you're adjusting your chain length as needed. Good luck.
     
  11. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Thanks
    New to this bike thing.
    Old dog learning new tricks.

    Now if I can only "Remember" LOL
     
  12. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you can simply swap the 11t final Cog from the one, 9-speed Cassette with the 12t final Cog from a 12-36 Shimano Cassette ...

    OF COURSE, if SRAM has an 11-36 9-speed Cassette, then you could simply use it.​

    FYI. MY impression from direct trial-and-error is that a Shimano ROAD rear derailleur has a hard time mating with an 11-/12-34 Cassette unless the 11t upper pulley wheel is swapped out and replaced with a 10t upper pulley wheel ...

    The Shimano MTB rear derailleurs can easily accommodate a 34t largest Cog.

    Replacing the 11t upper pulley wheel on a Shimano MTB rear derailleur should increase its capability to 36t. ​

    If you want (can afford!) a Cassette with a 42t largest Cog, then I think you'll need one of Shimano's SHADOW rear derailleurs which appear to be viable with larger Cogs.

    If you are going to use a Triple, then you'll need a new front derailleur ...

    AND, you will probably need a LONG (SGS) CAGE rear derailleur if you opt for a Cassette whose largest Cog is 34t-or-larger.

    A GS Cage should probably be "okay" with a 28t largest Cog & a Triple crankset.​

    And then, you should give very serious consideration to Campagnolo shifters.

    You can use Shimano derailleurs (front & rear) with Campagnolo shifters.
    BTW. The main reason that I prefer Campagnolo shifters is because I think they can handle downshifting onto a large Cog much more easily (i.e., effortlessly) than Shimano shifters with "regular" Shimano rear derailleurs. Using a Shimano "Rapid Rise" ("reverse pull") rear derailleur should improve downshifting.

    I have found that Campagnolo shifters will work with ANY vintage Chainrings ... at least, post-1970 Chainrings ...

    Ramping-and-pinning on an outer Chainring is only incrementally beneficial with Campagnolo front shfiters vs. almost necessary with Shimano's front shifters.​

    What I will refer to as semi-critical downshifting (e.g., you are grinding uphill on a mountain road and you need your bail-out Cog!) is NOT a factor for most Flatlanders ... and so, if you feel that your current riding has not resulted in any balky downshifts AND you do not anticipate future rides resulting in long climbs where you may encounter balky downshifting, then there is no reason to change your shifters ...

    But, changing one set of Shimano shifters for another set of Shimano shifters will not result in as much improvement as simply swapping to Campagnolo shifters ...

    An un-modified SRAM front shifter cannot be used with a Triple crankset, BTW.



     
  13. alfeng

    alfeng Well-Known Member

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    FWIW. Because I don't always use the same Cassette, I prefer to have a derailleur with a longer cage PLUS a few more links of chain than the "ideal" length which many riders prefer ...

    The bike which currently has the 11-36 (10-speed) Cassette was set up for an 11-32 (9-speed), so I'll need to either add some links OR simply change the chain ...

    An 11-34 is just okay with the fore mentioned chain ...​

    Of course, if I had anticipated the possibility of using a 36t Cog as my bail-out Cog, then I could/should have simply maxed out the chain's length to what the rear derailleur's (long) cage would allow and then not need to worry about using a Cassette with a 36t Cog.​
     
  14. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    Yea
    If close, go with a Long cage , more range more forgiving,
    might be a few milli seconds slower shifting. (& a few grams heavier)
     
  15. Flatbardave

    Flatbardave Member

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    11-34 worked good for a 32 mile ride up hills I rode 3 days ago.
    tried to make them all using the 30 gear but did shift into the 34 a few times.
    Shifted good in & out of it & even craoss cahined it & did ok
    34 x 34 was an ok cadence & easy pedaling at 6 - 7 mph
    Bike felt good & faster than any bike I've ever had.
    Quick to pick up speed too

    hoping for better weather Friday
     
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