90 watts in 22 weeks

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by Freddy Merxury, Sep 27, 2012.

  1. tomw1974

    tomw1974 New Member

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    Didn't you know? He likes to work his body AND his mind.
     


  2. gudujarlson

    gudujarlson New Member

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    Lol, definitely not. We already have a long thread on that subject. I don't strength train to enhance my cycling. I do it because there is more to life than cycling. The subject of this thread changed to off season plans, so I brought up the thought of switching some focus to activities other than cycling. Also, felt_rider previously brought up the thought that strength training in the off season is useless because you just lose all the gains during the cycling season. This made sense to me also until read otherwise in the physiology text.
     
  3. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    hey wait a minute!............ trying to pass the blame on me..../img/vbsmilies/smilies/biggrin.gif
    I did write that, but I am pretty sure I did that in that appropriate thread....the dreaded strength thread.
     
  4. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    After gettting some longer 2 hour rides at 210w-230w over the Thanksgiving break, I'm back to SST 2x20'

    Last night I did
    274w @ 160 bpm
    275w @ 170 bpm

    On the trainer watching the Kokside cross race, workout went by pretty fast. It was good for a 71 TSS with my threshold set at 295w.

    Hopefully I can get a threshold test in this next weekend. My goal was to get to 300w by new years, if I can do that this weekend I'd be pretty happy.
     
  5. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    What will you do if you get there?
    Keep going with the same plan and set the bar a little higher?

    I ask that in context if you have a long race season ahead and pacing your CTL ramp rate or if that is a concern at all.
     
  6. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    My end game is to hit 326w by March 1st, which is when race season starts for me. Based on even weekly improvement I needed to be at 300w by January 1st to be on pace to hit my end goal.

    If I do 300w this weekend then I'm a month ahead of schedule which, hopefully, means I will be more likely to reach my goal. If I get to 326w before March 1st then I will reset based on when I do it.

    I'm not going to change my goal of 326w because I understand that as I get stronger and have more consistant training it will be more difficult to make gains. So, for now I can be happy that I'm ahead of schedule and keep going.

    As far as my season. My main objective is to do well in April, so I'm not terribly concerned with burning out. My CTL is 38 right now. ATL is 44. I should be into the 70's without much difficulty. The 2x20' workout at 275 ish is coming in at 72 TSS. And that workout is not very taxing, (ei no residual fatigue the next day)
     
  7. Felt_Rider

    Felt_Rider Active Member

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    I agree that it sounds like you are very far from overreaching and I agree that L4 is not that difficult to recover in 24 hours. Sounds like you got it rolling smooth and are gaining steadily.
     
  8. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    2x20' TSS 82.7

    277w @ 154 bpm
    275w @ 164 bpm

    1:10 total; average of 235w for the workout

    CTL 40
    ATL 48
     
  9. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    Did 325w for 20'
     
  10. MichaelHelton

    MichaelHelton New Member

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    2x20?
     
  11. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    Single, didn't have time to do two.
     
  12. fluro2au

    fluro2au New Member

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    You did 325 for 20min...Noice!

    You need to crank up your 2 x 20's

    Paul
     
  13. Bigpikle

    Bigpikle New Member

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    superb result !
     
  14. MichaelHelton

    MichaelHelton New Member

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    Freddy, this is a huge jump! Since it was only 20 min I do not know where that puts you for an FTP prediction, but I would imagine it is well ahead of the 300W end of year goal you outlined.

    You started at 250w/20min just about 2 months ago and have made a huge leap since then. I was wondering if you have considered how much might be psycological? Either the power of pursuing a goal, or just getting more comfortable with doing 20min rides? Also, are you doing any mental (sports psych) training?

    As an athlete transitioning from running to cycling/road racing I have found this thread very interesting and appreciate your (and everyone else's) insight so far.
     
  15. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    On the first question, I plugged my recent 5', 10', and 20' efforts into the monod and got 314w for a threshold estimate. Don't believe that is accurate but it at least gives me some confidence to start out around 305w for my hour threshold test this Saturday.

    I think most of the improvement is physiological. When I realized that my 1 minute power was way high relative to my racing catergory, I got sort of obsessed with it. I'd go out and do a hard 1 minute hill and hit it so hard I had to quit the ride. I turned into a self fulfilling proficy, I thought I was good at 1 minute power so that's what I worked on. Only problem was all that focus took away from everything else especially my threshold. Before I started this training I had never done an interval over 10 minutes. Now the 20' intervals go by in no time.

    There is also a psycological aspect as well. Having goals and knowing that nothing worth doing was going to come easy. I wanted to just jump into the sport and be great at it without having to put in hard work, that strategy got me to Cat 3. Now the hard work is helping me get to my goals but I'm also taking a lot of satisfaction in the work itself. Training is fun, I enjoy watching the progress and looking at all the numbers. Hopefully it will equate to success on the road this year.
     
  16. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    The Monod CP Model does tend to overestimate MMP the further out in duration you go from the largest duration in your Monod Model data points. With your max duration data point at 20mins, your 60MMP should be relatively close to actual, but using the Monod Model to estimate your MMP at any duration makes one critical assumption: that you are fit at that duration. If you have been regularly doing 60min efforts at a relatively high percentage (e.g., 90%+) of your 60min power (FTP), then the Monod Model estimate will be pretty close. If, on the other hand, you have almost never or rarely ridden an hour or more at a relatively high intensity, then the Monod Model estimate will be significantly overestimated.
     
  17. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    I think the bigger issue is that not all of the data points represent what I could actually do at my current fitness. For example the 377w 5' data point coorisponded with a 400w NP because of the nature of the climb. I think if a wanted to I could hit 400w for 5'. Same thing for the 10' data point. I have 332w plugged in but I'm certain I could do much more then that if I went out for a all out 10'.

    If you adjust those data points to what I think I could do if I did all out intervals my 60' projection dips down to 307w which I think is dead on.
     
  18. daveryanwyoming

    daveryanwyoming Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, but I'd also add it makes a second critical assumption that all data points driving the model are actually maximal efforts for the duration. It's easy to see that a lowball 20 minute effort would result in a low CP (FTP) estimate but what's not so obvious is that a lowball short (e.g. 5 minute) effort will over estimate CP. That part is counter intuitive(I'm speaking to the OP and others as I'm certain you're aware of this RDO) but basically if your short duration power is relatively low the model assumes that a greater percentage of your long duration (e.g. 20 minute) power came from sustainable metabolic processes and therefore projects a higher CP.

    So make sure you drive the model with relatively recent data for all durations and make sure they're maximal efforts for the chosen durations. Also as Robert Chung has pointed out a number of times on the Wattage lists, a pair of reliable well obtained data points is preferable to adding more data points (more discrete timed efforts) but not ensuring that they're indeed maximal.

    -Dave

    P.S. Looks like you've already figured out the risk of lowball short duration efforts when CP testing. Yeah, I'd tend to go with the 300-305 watt estimate at least as a starting target for your next full hour.

    P.P.S. BTW, awesome progress Freddy and if you can keep up the training consistency I'm certain you'll see a lot more progress. You probably know that most folks don't make it up into the Cat 3 ranks without a lot of work so if you got there so quickly without much focused training it seems likely you've got some serious potential in this sport. Stick with a good program and hopefully you'll realize this potential.
     
  19. MichaelHelton

    MichaelHelton New Member

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    Dave (or anyone else),

    What program do you recommend for someone starting a consistent training program who is looking to increase FTP over the off season? Is there a specific program (coach/Friel/Coggan/trainingpeaks/etc)?

    Or just the general SST training recommendations in this thread, such as:

    "I'd suggest a lot of longer 30 to 60 minute SST/L4 efforts working on pacing, focus, and to some extent fatigue resistance and as RDO suggests, don't chase a lot of records but do the solid work and let the power come as it will.

    Good luck,
    -Dave"
     
  20. Freddy Merxury

    Freddy Merxury New Member

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    For what its worth. I think the 2x20' SST is the greatest flipping thing ever. It's challenging but not so hard that you dread getting on the trainer. You can do it everyday, and it only takes about an hour to do. And obviously works. My advise is to not over think your training. Ride everyday and do lots of SST, in whatever form or fashion works for you.
     
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