_Mountain Bike Trails: Techniques for Design, Construction,and Maintenance_, 1992

Discussion in 'rec.bicycles.soc archive' started by Mike Vandeman, Mar 5, 2004.

  1. Sent to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]>

    I read your booklet expecting to learn something, but, instead, I was horrified at the nonsense it promotes. Your book assumes that wildlife and wildlife habitat don't matter!

    1. You advocate creating new trails for mountain biking, without mentioning the fact that that constitutes destruction of habitat!

    2. You advocate making trails windey (sinuous) and bumpy, in order to give thrills to mountain bikers. You don't mention the fact that lengthening the trails destroys more habitat and makes the trails less useful for hikers and other trail users, by making them unnecessarily long and increasing the climbing that is required.

    3. You don't bother to mention that creeks and wetlands are important habitat, and that bikers should not be riding through creekbeds.

    4. You ignore the fact, when discussing signage, that "No Bikes" signs are frequently ripped out by mountain bikers, and that therefore "Closed Unless Marked Open" is a better policy. You recommend instead signs that say "Bikes Not Recommended", making enforcement of sensible regulations impossible. To many mountain bikers, such a sign is an irresistible challenge!

    5. You call the 40-50-foot wide Birkebeiner Ski Trail in Hayward, WI a "premier mountain biking experience", and print a photo of a mountain bike race, ignoring the huge environmental inpacts of such a wide trail and the destructive power of mountain bikes at race speeds!

    6. You recommend putting rubber (!) and other foreign materials in trail beds, ignoring the aesthetic and environmental impacts of rubber dust, etc.

    7. You recommend 48-50-inch wide trails to allow for passing and minimize user conflicts, without mentioning that that doubles the amount of wildlife habitat destroyed, as well as ruining the experience of being in nature that is a major attraction for all trail users. If I wanted to hike on a road, I would stay in the city!

    What is the point of writing a book that recommends ignoring all environmental considerations?!
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
    Tags:


  2. S O R N I

    S O R N I Guest

    Mike Vandeman wrote:
    > Sent to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]>
    >
    > 1. You advocate creating new trails for mountain biking

    Marry me, Mary Alice!

    Bill "she sounds like a bump bunny to me" S.
     
  3. On 06 Mar 2004 13:31:03 GMT, [email protected] (Stephen Baker) wrote:

    .MV says (in part): . .>2. You advocate making trails windey
    (sinuous) and bumpy, in order to give .>thrills to mountain
    bikers. You don't mention the fact that lengthening the
    .>trails destroys more habitat and makes the trails less
    useful for hikers and .>other trail users, by making them
    unnecessarily long and increasing the .>climbing .>that is
    required. .> . .I'm sadly not surprised that you completely
    failed to grasp the concept that .the book is teaching how
    to make good mountain bike trails, not good hiker .trails.

    Exactly my point! But none of them are intended for use
    exclusively by mountain bikers. DUH! Thanks for
    amplifying my point.
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  4. Brett Jaffee

    Brett Jaffee Guest

    Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Sent to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]>
    >
    > I read your booklet expecting to learn something, but,
    > instead, I was horrified at the nonsense it promotes.

    Now how is the above not a lie? What aspects of mountain
    biking are you not horrified by, such that you could even
    consider reading a book about creating mountain bike trails
    without expecting to be horrified.
     
  5. On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:22:38 GMT, Brett Jaffee <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    .Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in
    .news:[email protected]: . .> Sent
    to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]> .> .> I read your
    booklet expecting to learn something, but, instead, I was .>
    horrified at the nonsense it promotes. . .Now how is the
    above not a lie? What aspects of mountain biking are you
    .not horrified by, such that you could even consider reading
    a book about .creating mountain bike trails without
    expecting to be horrified.

    I found it in an otherwise respectable library. Actually, it
    got there from the Forestry Library, so it makes sense that
    it would be full of BS. Still, I have hope....
    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  6. DrGlen51

    DrGlen51 Guest

    On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:48:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >.> I read your booklet expecting to learn something, but,
    >instead, I was .> horrified at the nonsense it promotes. .
    >.Now how is the above not a lie? What aspects of mountain
    >biking are you .not horrified by, such that you could even
    >consider reading a book about .creating mountain bike
    >trails without expecting to be horrified.
    >
    >I found it in an otherwise respectable library. Actually,
    >it got there from the Forestry Library, so it makes sense
    >that it would be full of BS. Still, I have hope....
    >===
    >I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
    >limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent
    >the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    >construction.)
    >
    >http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

    Boy, Mike your are something. So hikers don't damage trails
    and trails for hiking don't damage your "pure habitat". All
    trails do damage and even animal trails do damage, of course
    you'll rationalize some kind of natural cause to justify an
    animal trail, but just to carry on in Mike type thinking, we
    should kill or remove all animals that make trails from your
    pure habitat. Since obviously you can't stand trail damage.

    We'll I'm going to take a break for awhile and go do some
    trail damage with my mountain bike for the next week and
    talk to some adults that reason and think beyond third grade
    sophistry and imagination.
     
  7. On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:03:45 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    .On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:48:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman
    <[email protected]> .wrote: . .>.> I read your booklet
    expecting to learn something, but, instead, I was .>.>
    horrified at the nonsense it promotes. .>. .>.Now how is the
    above not a lie? What aspects of mountain biking are you
    .>.not horrified by, such that you could even consider
    reading a book about .>.creating mountain bike trails
    without expecting to be horrified. .> .>I found it in an
    otherwise respectable library. Actually, it got there from
    the .>Forestry Library, so it makes sense that it would be
    full of BS. Still, I have .>hope.... .>=== .>I am working on
    creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .>humans
    ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
    .>years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .>
    .>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .Boy, Mike your are
    something. So hikers don't damage trails and trails .for
    hiking don't damage your "pure habitat".

    Where did you read that? Liar.

    All trails do damage and .even animal trails do damage, of
    course you'll rationalize some kind .of natural cause to
    justify an animal trail, but just to carry on in .Mike type
    thinking, we should kill or remove all animals that make
    .trails from your pure habitat. Since obviously you can't
    stand trail .damage. . .We'll I'm going to take a break for
    awhile and go do some trail damage .with my mountain bike
    for the next week and talk to some adults that .reason and
    think beyond third grade sophistry and imagination.

    ===
    I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
    to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
    previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
    construction.)

    http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
     
  8. Tj

    Tj Guest

    <snip Mikes hipocritical letter. He drives a car>

    > What is the point of writing a book that recommends
    > ignoring all
    environmental
    > considerations?!
    > ===

    It is just to Troll you out Mike.

    TJ
     
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