_Mountain Bike Trails: Techniques for Design, Construction,and Maintenance_, 1992



M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
Sent to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]>

I read your booklet expecting to learn something, but, instead, I was horrified at the nonsense it promotes. Your book assumes that wildlife and wildlife habitat don't matter!

1. You advocate creating new trails for mountain biking, without mentioning the fact that that constitutes destruction of habitat!

2. You advocate making trails windey (sinuous) and bumpy, in order to give thrills to mountain bikers. You don't mention the fact that lengthening the trails destroys more habitat and makes the trails less useful for hikers and other trail users, by making them unnecessarily long and increasing the climbing that is required.

3. You don't bother to mention that creeks and wetlands are important habitat, and that bikers should not be riding through creekbeds.

4. You ignore the fact, when discussing signage, that "No Bikes" signs are frequently ripped out by mountain bikers, and that therefore "Closed Unless Marked Open" is a better policy. You recommend instead signs that say "Bikes Not Recommended", making enforcement of sensible regulations impossible. To many mountain bikers, such a sign is an irresistible challenge!

5. You call the 40-50-foot wide Birkebeiner Ski Trail in Hayward, WI a "premier mountain biking experience", and print a photo of a mountain bike race, ignoring the huge environmental inpacts of such a wide trail and the destructive power of mountain bikes at race speeds!

6. You recommend putting rubber (!) and other foreign materials in trail beds, ignoring the aesthetic and environmental impacts of rubber dust, etc.

7. You recommend 48-50-inch wide trails to allow for passing and minimize user conflicts, without mentioning that that doubles the amount of wildlife habitat destroyed, as well as ruining the experience of being in nature that is a major attraction for all trail users. If I wanted to hike on a road, I would stay in the city!

What is the point of writing a book that recommends ignoring all environmental considerations?!
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
S

S O R N I

Guest
Mike Vandeman wrote:
> Sent to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]>
>
> 1. You advocate creating new trails for mountain biking

Marry me, Mary Alice!

Bill "she sounds like a bump bunny to me" S.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On 06 Mar 2004 13:31:03 GMT, [email protected] (Stephen Baker) wrote:

.MV says (in part): . .>2. You advocate making trails windey
(sinuous) and bumpy, in order to give .>thrills to mountain
bikers. You don't mention the fact that lengthening the
.>trails destroys more habitat and makes the trails less
useful for hikers and .>other trail users, by making them
unnecessarily long and increasing the .>climbing .>that is
required. .> . .I'm sadly not surprised that you completely
failed to grasp the concept that .the book is teaching how
to make good mountain bike trails, not good hiker .trails.

Exactly my point! But none of them are intended for use
exclusively by mountain bikers. DUH! Thanks for
amplifying my point.
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
B

Brett Jaffee

Guest
Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in
news:[email protected]:

> Sent to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]>
>
> I read your booklet expecting to learn something, but,
> instead, I was horrified at the nonsense it promotes.

Now how is the above not a lie? What aspects of mountain
biking are you not horrified by, such that you could even
consider reading a book about creating mountain bike trails
without expecting to be horrified.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 00:22:38 GMT, Brett Jaffee <[email protected]>
wrote:

.Mike Vandeman <[email protected]> wrote in
.news:[email protected]: . .> Sent
to: Mary Alice Stoner <[email protected]> .> .> I read your
booklet expecting to learn something, but, instead, I was .>
horrified at the nonsense it promotes. . .Now how is the
above not a lie? What aspects of mountain biking are you
.not horrified by, such that you could even consider reading
a book about .creating mountain bike trails without
expecting to be horrified.

I found it in an otherwise respectable library. Actually, it
got there from the Forestry Library, so it makes sense that
it would be full of BS. Still, I have hope....
===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
D

DrGlen51

Guest
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:48:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman <[email protected]>
wrote:

>.> I read your booklet expecting to learn something, but,
>instead, I was .> horrified at the nonsense it promotes. .
>.Now how is the above not a lie? What aspects of mountain
>biking are you .not horrified by, such that you could even
>consider reading a book about .creating mountain bike
>trails without expecting to be horrified.
>
>I found it in an otherwise respectable library. Actually,
>it got there from the Forestry Library, so it makes sense
>that it would be full of BS. Still, I have hope....
>===
>I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-
>limits to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent
>the previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
>construction.)
>
>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande

Boy, Mike your are something. So hikers don't damage trails
and trails for hiking don't damage your "pure habitat". All
trails do damage and even animal trails do damage, of course
you'll rationalize some kind of natural cause to justify an
animal trail, but just to carry on in Mike type thinking, we
should kill or remove all animals that make trails from your
pure habitat. Since obviously you can't stand trail damage.

We'll I'm going to take a break for awhile and go do some
trail damage with my mountain bike for the next week and
talk to some adults that reason and think beyond third grade
sophistry and imagination.
 
M

Mike Vandeman

Guest
On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 10:03:45 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

.On Mon, 08 Mar 2004 05:48:01 GMT, Mike Vandeman
<[email protected]> .wrote: . .>.> I read your booklet
expecting to learn something, but, instead, I was .>.>
horrified at the nonsense it promotes. .>. .>.Now how is the
above not a lie? What aspects of mountain biking are you
.>.not horrified by, such that you could even consider
reading a book about .>.creating mountain bike trails
without expecting to be horrified. .> .>I found it in an
otherwise respectable library. Actually, it got there from
the .>Forestry Library, so it makes sense that it would be
full of BS. Still, I have .>hope.... .>=== .>I am working on
creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits to .>humans
("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the previous 8
.>years fighting auto dependence and road construction.) .>
.>http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande . .Boy, Mike your are
something. So hikers don't damage trails and trails .for
hiking don't damage your "pure habitat".

Where did you read that? Liar.

All trails do damage and .even animal trails do damage, of
course you'll rationalize some kind .of natural cause to
justify an animal trail, but just to carry on in .Mike type
thinking, we should kill or remove all animals that make
.trails from your pure habitat. Since obviously you can't
stand trail .damage. . .We'll I'm going to take a break for
awhile and go do some trail damage .with my mountain bike
for the next week and talk to some adults that .reason and
think beyond third grade sophistry and imagination.

===
I am working on creating wildlife habitat that is off-limits
to humans ("pure habitat"). Want to help? (I spent the
previous 8 years fighting auto dependence and road
construction.)

http://home.pacbell.net/mjvande
 
T

Tj

Guest
<snip Mikes hipocritical letter. He drives a car>

> What is the point of writing a book that recommends
> ignoring all
environmental
> considerations?!
> ===

It is just to Troll you out Mike.

TJ