A 50mph leadout?



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"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> K. Gringini bumbled his insult:
> > > Scott -
> > >
> > > I would like to be the first to say: "you are a dumbest"
> >
> > "dumbass"
> >
> > K. Gringini dumb, but not as dumb as scott
> >
> >
>
> Well, which is it? Dumbest or dumbass? And why do I deserve that, exactly?
>
> What evidence do you have that 50mph is possible? Do you know what 'empirical' means?
>
> I have plenty of evidence that supports the statement I made - that there's no way anybody can hit
> anywhere close to 50mph on a flat road, with or without a full-blown professional leadout or light
> tailwind.

Hey dumbass -

this statement:

"Jason,

Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout?"

have a nice day,

K. Gringioni
 
> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GG4ca.1272
> >
> > What evidence do you have that 50mph is possible? Do you know what 'empirical' means?
> >
> > I have plenty of evidence that supports the statement I made - that
there's
> > no way anybody can hit anywhere close to 50mph on a flat road, with or without a full-blown
> > professional leadout or light tailwind.
>
>
> Hey dumbass -
>
> this statement:
>
> "Jason,
>
> Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout?"
>

hey lap dog,

America does not count, since domestically-based pros come with quotation marks, as in "pros". I'm
sure Jason is a really good bike rider, but i KNOW he hasn't hit 50mph personally in a sprint here
in America or seen anyone else do it, simply because the sprint speeds do not get very high. So he
MUST have some first-hand Euro leadout train experience to respond with such a cocky insult.
 
"scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > >There is no way can anybody - with or without a pro train - can
hit
> > >anywhere near 50mph on a flat road, light tailwind or not.
> > >
> > >Scott
> >
> > Really? thanks for your professional anaylsis. But you are
wrong.
> >
> > going back to lurking, jason
>
> Jason,
>
> Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout? You must have, since you are so confident. Let
> us know... I'm just seeking
empirical
> evidence like any good RBR debater.

I guess that Cipo being radared at 48 mph on flat no-wind conditions AT THE FINISH LINE (where
you'll note they usually are a tad slower then 25 meters before) has no bearing in these
discussions.

He has been timed at this several times. I think that Zabel who isn't in the same catagory as Cipo
was clocked at 46 mph in a Tour finish - no wind and flat ground.
 
I'm always skeptical when I hear Ligget talk about the speeds attained in racing, and equally
skeptical when hearing folks talk about sprinting speeds, so no surprise that this thread caught my
attention.

For giggles, I went to analyticcycling.com and crunched just a couple of numbers. Admittedly, these
numbers don't take into account the fact that subsequent riders in a leadout train are getting a bit
of a draft, but... the bottom line is much the same for each rider as they come to the front.

So, here's what I found:

given the defaults of no wind and normal rolling resistance on asphalt, it takes 1500W to go 42 mph,
and 2000W to hit a measly 47.4 mph., and roughly 2300W to hit 50mph.

And if you think there are folks strong enough to generate that sort of wattage, think of it this
way: 50 mph in a 53/11 gear takes a cadence over 130 rpm. Really, who do you know who can spin a
53/11 at 130 rpm???

So, next time someone tells you they're sprinting at approx 50 mph, feel free to call
'********' on 'em.

Not the same Scott, but providing analysis, nonetheless

Scott H.

[email protected] (scott) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > >There is no way can anybody - with or without a pro train - can hit anywhere near 50mph on a
> > >flat road, light tailwind or not.
> > >
> > >Scott
> >
> > Really? thanks for your professional anaylsis. But you are wrong.
> >
> > going back to lurking, jason
>
> Jason,
>
> Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout? You must have, since you are so confident. Let
> us know... I'm just seeking empirical evidence like any good RBR debater.
>
> Scott
 
[email protected] (scott) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > >There is no way can anybody - with or without a pro train - can hit anywhere near 50mph on a
> > >flat road, light tailwind or not.
> > >
> > >Scott
> >
> > Really? thanks for your professional anaylsis. But you are wrong.
> >
> > going back to lurking, jason
>
> Jason,
>
> Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout? You must have, since you are so confident. Let
> us know... I'm just seeking empirical evidence like any good RBR debater.
>
> Scott

Gotta love it! Two bad-ass sprinters arguing with each other and questioning the other's credibility
without knowing who the other one is, so it seems.

This thread is a perfect example of why I lurk on RBR. It's great entertainment. It's kind of like
reality TV... Conflict, rumors, back stabbing, kicking people when they're down. And occasional,
useful cycling info too. Or not.

But I digress.

What I really want to know is this: could Scott (McKinley that is, former top US pro sprinter with
7-11) in his prime beat Jason (Waddell that is, one of the best US amateur sprinters)?

Mark (has trouble reaching 35mph on a downhill with a tailwind)
 
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GG4ca.1272

> > Hey dumbass -
> >
> > this statement:
> >
> > "Jason,
> >
> > Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout?"
> >
>
> hey lap dog,
>
> America does not count, since domestically-based pros come with quotation marks, as in "pros". I'm
> sure Jason is a really good bike rider, but i KNOW he hasn't hit 50mph personally in a sprint here
> in America or seen anyone else do it, simply because the sprint speeds do not get very high. So he
> MUST have some first-hand Euro leadout train experience to respond with such a cocky insult.

Hey dumbass -

I was in a race that you won - that crit they held on the Long Beach Grand Prix CART course. You
threw a lot of elbows moving up right through the middle of the pack. At the time, being sort of new
to that level of racing, I thought it was cheap. Later on, I realized it's part of sprinting.

You can't hit 50 coming off a leadout? *****.

K. Gringioni lapdog
 
Busted. I got the hook in pretty far though. Isn't there some kind of RBR award for that?

btw, I passed a guy named Eric Vanderaerden at a glacially slow 38mph in this photo off a monster
pro leadout, but maybe times have changed. After all, we only had measly 12s back then...
http://www.suitesmart.com/test/br/images/1990_besseges.jpg

Scott

"Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (scott) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > > >There is no way can anybody - with or without a pro train - can hit anywhere near 50mph on a
> > > >flat road, light tailwind or not.
> > > >
> > > >Scott
> > >
> > > Really? thanks for your professional anaylsis. But you are wrong.
> > >
> > > going back to lurking, jason
> >
> > Jason,
> >
> > Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout? You must have, since you are so confident.
> > Let us know... I'm just seeking empirical evidence like any good RBR debater.
> >
> > Scott
>
> Gotta love it! Two bad-ass sprinters arguing with each other and questioning the other's
> credibility without knowing who the other one is, so it seems.
>
> This thread is a perfect example of why I lurk on RBR. It's great entertainment. It's kind of like
> reality TV... Conflict, rumors, back stabbing, kicking people when they're down. And occasional,
> useful cycling info too. Or not.
>
> But I digress.
>
> What I really want to know is this: could Scott (McKinley that is, former top US pro sprinter with
> 7-11) in his prime beat Jason (Waddell that is, one of the best US amateur sprinters)?
>
> Mark (has trouble reaching 35mph on a downhill with a tailwind)
 
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> What evidence do you have that 50mph is possible? Do you know what 'empirical' means?

I can see it now, someone is going to find one of those articles that quotes the guy with the
radar gun that caught Cipo at 48 mph or Zabel at 46 and then you're going to say, "Hell, maybe 48
but not 50".
 
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> America does not count, since domestically-based pros come with
quotation
> marks, as in "pros". I'm sure Jason is a really good bike rider, but
i KNOW
> he hasn't hit 50mph personally in a sprint here in America or seen
anyone
> else do it, simply because the sprint speeds do not get very high.
So he
> MUST have some first-hand Euro leadout train experience to respond
with such
> a cocky insult.

We all noticed how USPS cleaned up all of those big rich American races they fought out - like the
US Championships and the SFGP. Oops, wait, they didn't win those did they? It must have been because
American racers don't sprint well.
 
> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > America does not count, since domestically-based pros come with
> quotation
> > marks, as in "pros". I'm sure Jason is a really good bike rider, but
> i KNOW
> > he hasn't hit 50mph personally in a sprint here in America or seen
> anyone
> > else do it, simply because the sprint speeds do not get very high.
>

"Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:D[email protected]...
> We all noticed how USPS cleaned up all of those big rich American races they fought out - like the
> US Championships and the SFGP. Oops, wait, they didn't win those did they? It must have been
> because American racers don't sprint well.

American sprinters are very quick, but there are 2 reasons why the top speed of Euro sprints are
much higher than they are in the U.S.
1. U.S. teams do not have the leadout power or expertise that Euro teams have.
2. U.S. finishes are not designed for speed like Euro finishes are. U.S. promoters think its cool to
throw a corner in for drama.

Think about it: how many U.S. race finishes look like a TDF sprint finish? Exactly. BTW, USPS does
not have any pure world class sprinters, and they don't pretend to.
 
"Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> What I really want to know is this: could Scott (McKinley that is, former top US pro sprinter with
> 7-11) in his prime beat Jason (Waddell that is, one of the best US amateur sprinters)?
>
> Mark (has trouble reaching 35mph on a downhill with a tailwind)

No slight toward Jason, but you could count on one hand the US riders who could be considered
sprinters by Euro peloton standards, and McKinley was one of them.

http://tinyurl.com/7fpk
 
in article [email protected], Mark Fennell at [email protected]
wrote on 3/13/03 4:06 PM:

> What I really want to know is this: could Scott (McKinley that is, former top US pro sprinter with
> 7-11) in his prime beat Jason (Waddell that is, one of the best US amateur sprinters)?

Having been "up and coming" during McKinley, and "never was" during Waddell, I submit that McKinley
was faster.

Adam
 
in article [email protected], Scott at [email protected] wrote on
3/13/03 4:59 PM:

> Busted. I got the hook in pretty far though. Isn't there some kind of RBR award for that?
>
> btw, I passed a guy named Eric Vanderaerden at a glacially slow 38mph in this photo off a monster
> pro leadout, but maybe times have changed. After all, we only had measly 12s back then...
> http://www.suitesmart.com/test/br/images/1990_besseges.jpg
>
> Scott

52 x 12's even.

That's a nice souvenir, though!

Adam
 
in article [email protected], Scott at [email protected] wrote on
3/13/03 2:49 PM:

>> "Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:GG4ca.1272
>>>
>>> What evidence do you have that 50mph is possible? Do you know what 'empirical' means?
>>>
>>> I have plenty of evidence that supports the statement I made - that
> there's
>>> no way anybody can hit anywhere close to 50mph on a flat road, with or without a full-blown
>>> professional leadout or light tailwind.
>>
>>
>> Hey dumbass -
>>
>> this statement:
>>
>> "Jason,
>>
>> Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout?"
>>
>
> hey lap dog,
>
> America does not count, since domestically-based pros come with quotation marks, as in "pros". I'm
> sure Jason is a really good bike rider, but i KNOW he hasn't hit 50mph personally in a sprint here
> in America or seen anyone else do it, simply because the sprint speeds do not get very high. So he
> MUST have some first-hand Euro leadout train experience to respond with such a cocky insult.

US sprints are typically just as fast, if not faster, than Euro sprints, because our races or
shorter, and our pro scene selects for riders that have natural speed.

This is, for example, why Gord Fraser could go to Europe and win shorter, lower level races coming
from US racing, yet Ivan Quaranta couldn't even manage to finish the NYC criterium.

Adam
 
"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BA968B2C.3D3C%[email protected]...
> in article [email protected], Mark Fennell at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/13/03 4:06 PM:
>
> > What I really want to know is this: could Scott (McKinley that is, former top US pro sprinter
> > with 7-11) in his prime beat Jason (Waddell that is, one of the best US amateur sprinters)?
>
> Having been "up and coming" during McKinley, and "never was" during Waddell, I submit that
> McKinley was faster.

McKinley won a lot.

Captain W. hasn't won much has he?

Therefore S&M is faster.
 
"Scott Hendricks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> given the defaults of no wind and normal rolling resistance on asphalt, it takes 1500W to go 42
> mph, and 2000W to hit a measly 47.4 mph., and roughly 2300W to hit 50mph.

Cipo can generate that amount of power for the couple of seconds necessary to pull off the front.

> And if you think there are folks strong enough to generate that sort of wattage, think of it
> this way: 50 mph in a 53/11 gear takes a cadence over 130 rpm. Really, who do you know who can
> spin a 53/11
at
> 130 rpm???

Sprinters will often carry a 56/11 on a real sprint stage. Not a big difference but crucial.

> So, next time someone tells you they're sprinting at approx 50 mph, feel free to call
> '********' on 'em.

If you're talking about a real 50 mph I agree. If you're talking about the 50 mph neighborhood they
actually showed the radar gun on one stage of the Tour showing Zabel at 46 mph. Cipo is all hell and
gone faster than Zabel even at his best.
 
In article <BA968B2C.3D3C%[email protected]>, Adam Hodges Myerson
<[email protected]> wrote:

> in article [email protected], Mark Fennell at
> [email protected] wrote on 3/13/03 4:06 PM:
>
> > What I really want to know is this: could Scott (McKinley that is, former top US pro sprinter
> > with 7-11) in his prime beat Jason (Waddell that is, one of the best US amateur sprinters)?
>
> Having been "up and coming" during McKinley, and "never was" during Waddell, I submit that
> McKinley was faster.
>
> Adam

He also has the results to verify that. But then, JW works 8 hours a day and can still beat some pro
sprinters.

So Henry, you can get another chance at Scott in a race since he's now racing in the 35+ with the
USPS Masters Team.

-WG
 
"Adam Hodges Myerson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:BA968A19.3D3A%[email protected]...
>
> This is, for example, why Gord Fraser could go to Europe and win
shorter,
> lower level races coming from US racing, yet Ivan Quaranta couldn't
even
> manage to finish the NYC criterium.

And my guess is Quaranta is the fastest sprinter in the world today. He has often closed on Cipo
like he was standing still but not quite made it.
 
"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Think about it: how many U.S. race finishes look like a TDF sprint
finish?
> Exactly. BTW, USPS does not have any pure world class sprinters, and
they
> don't pretend to.

I think that it is a depth of field problem. There are terrific sprinters all over the place but
they seldom get on a sprinters course together in the US.
 
Ahh, it was just luck. Vanderarden had a toothache.

Did they have the sort of leadouts there that they commonly have now where, for instance, star
sprinters are leading out star sprinters?

"Scott" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Busted. I got the hook in pretty far though. Isn't there some kind
of RBR
> award for that?
>
> btw, I passed a guy named Eric Vanderaerden at a glacially slow
38mph in
> this photo off a monster pro leadout, but maybe times have changed.
After
> all, we only had measly 12s back then...
> http://www.suitesmart.com/test/br/images/1990_besseges.jpg
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
> "Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > [email protected] (scott) wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > > > >There is no way can anybody - with or without a pro train -
can hit
> > > > >anywhere near 50mph on a flat road, light tailwind or not.
> > > > >
> > > > >Scott
> > > >
> > > > Really? thanks for your professional anaylsis. But you are
wrong.
> > > >
> > > > going back to lurking, jason
> > >
> > > Jason,
> > >
> > > Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout? You must
have,
> > > since you are so confident. Let us know... I'm just seeking
empirical
> > > evidence like any good RBR debater.
> > >
> > > Scott
> >
> > Gotta love it! Two bad-ass sprinters arguing with each other and questioning the other's
> > credibility without knowing who the other
one
> > is, so it seems.
> >
> > This thread is a perfect example of why I lurk on RBR. It's great entertainment. It's kind of
> > like reality TV... Conflict, rumors,
back
> > stabbing, kicking people when they're down. And occasional, useful cycling info too. Or not.
> >
> > But I digress.
> >
> > What I really want to know is this: could Scott (McKinley that is, former top US pro sprinter
> > with 7-11) in his prime beat Jason
(Waddell
> > that is, one of the best US amateur sprinters)?
> >
> > Mark (has trouble reaching 35mph on a downhill with a tailwind)
 
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