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Pete Harris wrote:
> What's wrong with this logic: 50 MPH with a 20 MPH tailwind is like 30 MPH with no tailwind.

You're ignoring rolling resistance, drive train efficiency, and, unless you change your gearing, the

--
Tony Rall

Scott Hendricks wrote:
> I'm always skeptical when I hear Ligget talk about the speeds attained in racing, and equally
> skeptical when hearing folks talk about sprinting speeds, so no surprise that this thread caught
> my attention.
>
> For giggles, I went to analyticcycling.com and crunched just a couple of numbers. Admittedly,
> these numbers don't take into account the fact that subsequent riders in a leadout train are
> getting a bit of a draft, but... the bottom line is much the same for each rider as they come to
> the front.
>
> So, here's what I found:
>
> given the defaults of no wind and normal rolling resistance on asphalt, it takes 1500W to go 42
> mph, and 2000W to hit a measly 47.4 mph., and roughly 2300W to hit 50mph.

So it must have been slightly downhill and/or with a healthy tailwind or draft. Nonetheless, I've
seen it happen on TV. I'm just qeustion the accuracy of what I saw.

> And if you think there are folks strong enough to generate that sort of wattage, think of it this
> way: 50 mph in a 53/11 gear takes a cadence over 130 rpm. Really, who do you know who can spin a
> 53/11 at 130 rpm???

Ooh, ooh, pick me! Well, I managed to spin out my 52/12. Downhill (~8%) with a tailwind (15mph).
56.2 mph, my personal best. So I think I can spin out a 53/11 under similar conditions.

Yeah, I know I'm being pedantic. Sorry.

> So, next time someone tells you they're sprinting at approx 50 mph, feel free to call
> '********' on 'em.
>
> Not the same Scott, but providing analysis, nonetheless
>
> Scott H.

The problem is, this was live coverage of the Vuelta last year. The moto telemetry indicated
the speed.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Tom Kunich wrote:
> "Scott Hendricks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>given the defaults of no wind and normal rolling resistance on asphalt, it takes 1500W to go 42
>>mph, and 2000W to hit a measly 47.4 mph., and roughly 2300W to hit 50mph.
>
>
> Cipo can generate that amount of power for the couple of seconds necessary to pull off the front.

Clarification: The alleged 50mph point was at least one minute before the finish of the race, when
most of the A&S train was still in line.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

scott wrote:
>>>There is no way can anybody - with or without a pro train - can hit anywhere near 50mph on a flat
>>>
>>>Scott
>>
>>Really? thanks for your professional anaylsis. But you are wrong.
>>
>>going back to lurking, jason
>
>
> Jason,
>
> Have you ever sprinted off a professional leadout? You must have, since you are so confident. Let
> us know... I'm just seeking empirical evidence like any good RBR debater.
>
> Scott

You ain't close to a "good RBR debater." If you bothered to read this newsgroup you'd know that he's

Raptor <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Scott Hendricks wrote:
> > I'm always skeptical when I hear Ligget talk about the speeds attained in racing, and equally
> > skeptical when hearing folks talk about sprinting speeds, so no surprise that this thread caught
> > my attention.
> >
> > For giggles, I went to analyticcycling.com and crunched just a couple of numbers. Admittedly,
> > these numbers don't take into account the fact that subsequent riders in a leadout train are
> > getting a bit of a draft, but... the bottom line is much the same for each rider as they come to
> > the front.
> >
> > So, here's what I found:
> >
> > given the defaults of no wind and normal rolling resistance on asphalt, it takes 1500W to go 42
> > mph, and 2000W to hit a measly 47.4 mph., and roughly 2300W to hit 50mph.
>
> So it must have been slightly downhill and/or with a healthy tailwind or draft. Nonetheless, I've
> seen it happen on TV. I'm just qeustion the accuracy of what I saw.
>
> > And if you think there are folks strong enough to generate that sort of wattage, think of it
> > this way: 50 mph in a 53/11 gear takes a cadence over 130 rpm. Really, who do you know who can
> > spin a 53/11 at 130 rpm???
>
> Ooh, ooh, pick me! Well, I managed to spin out my 52/12. Downhill (~8%) with a tailwind (15mph).
> 56.2 mph, my personal best. So I think I can spin out a 53/11 under similar conditions.
>
> Yeah, I know I'm being pedantic. Sorry.
>
> > So, next time someone tells you they're sprinting at approx 50 mph, feel free to call '********'
> > on 'em.
> >
> > Not the same Scott, but providing analysis, nonetheless
> >
> > Scott H.
>
> The problem is, this was live coverage of the Vuelta last year. The moto telemetry indicated
> the speed.
>
> --

I've seen the sort of coverage you're basing your arguments on. I don't buy it. First, you never
really get a good view of the speedo needle, and second, it rarely shows the moto in relation to the
pack. I've seen times where the motorcycle was clearly passing along side the pack, accelerating
past them, and they've shown the speedo at that time. Hell, the moto probably had a 5-10 mph

Bottom line, there just isn't anyone out there who can generate the required wattage for the
required time, at the end of a long race, to go that fast. If someone can show empirical data such
as a printout from a SRM log, maybe I'll believe it. Till then, it's just hype.

I'm curious if anyone has the numbers for top track sprinters or kilo riders. It'd make an
interesting comparison. Anyone know the top wattage from someone like Nothstein or the like?

[email protected] (Scott Hendricks) wrote in message \> I'm curious if anyone has the
numbers for top track sprinters or kilo
> riders. It'd make an interesting comparison. Anyone know the top wattage from someone like
> Nothstein or the like?

Eadie did 2400W in a World Cup Keirin last year (Sydney) according to those that were there and
saw the SRM.

"Joey D'Antoni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Scott Hendricks) wrote in message \> I'm curious if anyone has the
> numbers for top track sprinters or kilo
> > riders. It'd make an interesting comparison. Anyone know the top wattage from someone like
> > Nothstein or the like?
>
> Eadie did 2400W in a World Cup Keirin last year (Sydney) according to those that were there and
> saw the SRM.

Any idea what the recording interval was set to? 0.5 s? 1.0 s?

Andy Coggan

[email protected] (Joey D'Antoni) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> [email protected] (Scott Hendricks) wrote in message \> I'm curious if anyone has the
> numbers for top track sprinters or kilo
> > riders. It'd make an interesting comparison. Anyone know the top wattage from someone like
> > Nothstein or the like?
>
> Eadie did 2400W in a World Cup Keirin last year (Sydney) according to those that were there and
> saw the SRM.

Thanks for the info. That I'll believe. Cipo, or Quaranta, or Zabel, or whoever, AND their leadout
trains, each cranking out 2300W at the end of a spring classic, Giro stage, Tour stage, whatever, I
won't believe.

Scott Hendricks wrote:
> Thanks for the info. That I'll believe. Cipo, or Quaranta, or Zabel, or whoever, AND their leadout
> trains, each cranking out 2300W at the end of a spring classic, Giro stage, Tour stage, whatever,
> I won't believe.

Only the lead rider needs that power, of course. I sure wish I'd kept that tape. Not to belabor the
argument, but it was a fairly steady state of the race. Typical pre-sprint coverage, with the lead
camera moto holding position more or less, and the speed flirting with, then touching 80kph for
several seconds. Could have been a delta-v of the moto, but it was a damn fast peloton.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Originally posted by Raptor
Scott Hendricks wrote:
> Thanks for the info. That I'll believe. Cipo, or Quaranta, or Zabel, or whoever, AND their leadout
> trains, each cranking out 2300W at the end of a spring classic, Giro stage, Tour stage, whatever,
> I won't believe.

Only the lead rider needs that power, of course. I sure wish I'd kept that tape. Not to belabor the
argument, but it was a fairly steady state of the race. Typical pre-sprint coverage, with the lead
camera moto holding position more or less, and the speed flirting with, then touching 80kph for
several seconds. Could have been a delta-v of the moto, but it was a damn fast peloton.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall "I'm not proud. We really haven't done everything we
could to protect our customers. Our products just aren't engineered for security." --Microsoft VP in
charge of Windows OS Development, Brian Valentine.

Simple explanations:

What seems flat can be 2% downhill
How do you mesure no tailwind on your television? there might have been some.

Cars and motorbikes may not be underclocked, to prevent legal problems overcloking is common use 80 on the motorbike telemetry will be close to 75 or even 70 in reality.

The motorcyle may have ridden 80 for a short stretch but they aren't always at the same higth in/in front of the peleton when they gain some distance they may do 80 but the bunch only 70

For those with the power output use of analytic cycling, quality of asfalt, position of the rider can reduce needed power+ Analytic cycling is for single rider, when you have someone on your wheel this person will reduce turbulence behind you and reduce the power you need(two guys are faster then one at the same power even when rider 2 stays in the wheel all the time)

"maarten" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> when you have someone on your wheel this person will reduce turbulence behind you and reduce the
> power you need(two guys are faster then one at the same power even when rider 2 stays in the wheel
> all the time)

This has been hashed out many times, and the conclusion has been that for cyclists, the effect
approaches the limit of detection even in a wind tunnel.

Andy Coggan

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