A Bicycle Power Assist that I like!

[JTE83]

Found this site from a Roadbikereview forum thread. It's a company that sells engines to mount on your bike and you can go over 30 mph and get 250 mpg ! Just what I want for a commuter bike to go to work in! Once I got a new job I'll put it on my Pacific mtn bike and use a Burley Nomad with it to go everywhere. Like Chicago has high gas prices -- $2.48 / gallon on 1/11/07 where it's $2.10 in Bowling Green, KY.

http://www.bikeengines.com/info.htm

Does anyone have any info or experience with these bike engine mods? Does anyone know of something better?

I've looked at the revopower but it sucks that they limit it to 20 mph speeds.

Wow - this is post 666 for me!

 

[Skoorb]

Hey that's actually pretty cool.

 

[Slugster438]

....http://www.bikeengines.com/info.htm Does anyone have any info or experience with these bike engine mods? Does anyone know of something better?....

I don't think the Revopower setups are shipping yet. Has anyone ordered one and got it?
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When I asked around, everyone who had tried them agreed: the friction-drive kits are all lousy, don't buy one. Overall they really just don't work well.

The Chinese chain-drive kits and the Golden Eagle belt-drive kits are both good, but for different reasons. The Chinese kits are inexpensive ($150-$200+) and can withstand more power but have more mechanical issues; the Golden Eagle kits are more expensive ($500-$600) but have fewer mechanical issues and they use name-brand engines.

I have one of these Golden Eagle kits (35cc Robin engine), haven't used it much with the cold winter weather. I weigh 275 lbs and it goes 27 MPH just like they say, only needs help up the steeper hills. I don't have it on a bike right now, as the bike I intended to put it on didn't turn out to be so great.

FIRST matter is legal issues; there's no sense in buying one of these setups if it isn't usable on the street. You mentioned Chicago gas prices, are you in IL? I know a few things about them in IL. You would also need to check if there are any local ordinances prohibiting them.

Secondly is that these kits work best on specific bicycles, either cheap suspended MTB's (with non-QR wheels) or "newsboy"-style fat-tire cruisers. You can put it on any bicycle that has the correct spoke count of course, but there are specific reasons why these two types are popular and others are not.

Here is a forum specifically oriented towards gas-engine bicycles and kits.
There's also a Yahoo group named "power_assist", but it is slmost entirely concerned with the electric drives.
~

 

[JTE83]

I don't care if they are illegal in Chicago, IL - but I don't know for sure. If they are I will just avoid cops and if I see one I'll slow down or won't pass him. I'll use pedal power around cops.

I thought a lot of people would be interested in this. Well, I hate the way a lot of laws worldwide restrict the speed of power assisted bikes to 18 or 20 mph. At that speed I wouldn't waste my money on one (especially that nice up and coming revopower) 30+ mph is talking! And it's especially hard to go faster than 12 mph when there is a strong wind of 12 mph too!

Besides, this would be great for the work commute. Use the engine to go to work so you don't break a sweat into your work clothes then you can pedal assist it home for exercise and better fuel economy.

Thanks for the forum link!

This is what the world really needs! A high speed gas assisted bike that gets good mpg and that's what you get with the Golden Eagle! I will definitely buy one even if it's illegal where live. Like they won't confiscate it from me? I want to get one while they're still selling.

 

[dhk2]

I don't care if they are illegal in Chicago, IL - but I don't know for sure. If they are I will just avoid cops and if I see one I'll slow down or won't pass him. I'll use pedal power around cops.

I thought a lot of people would be interested in this. Well, I hate the way a lot of laws worldwide restrict the speed of power assisted bikes to 18 or 20 mph. At that speed I wouldn't waste my money on one (especially that nice up and coming revopower) 30+ mph is talking! And it's especially hard to go faster than 12 mph when there is a strong wind of 12 mph too!

Besides, this would be great for the work commute. Use the engine to go to work so you don't break a sweat into your work clothes then you can pedal assist it home for exercise and better fuel economy.

Thanks for the forum link!

This is what the world really needs! A high speed gas assisted bike that gets good mpg and that's what you get with the Golden Eagle! I will definitely buy one even if it's illegal where live. Like they won't confiscate it from me? I want to get one while they're still selling.

Saw a picture recently in Outside mag of the new Schwinn plug-in electric hybrid bike. The 400W motor is integrated into the rear hub, battery in frame, and shaft drive from pedals. Retail is $2000. From the pix I've seen, even Chicago's finest would have a hard time calling it a motorcycle. Believe the range is something like 60 miles @ 14 mph.

 

[Slugster438]

....Well, I hate the way a lot of laws worldwide restrict the speed of power assisted bikes to 18 or 20 mph. ...

The "20 mph" standard started in Europe, and the US Fed Gov't recently adopted a vehicle classification for electric-motorized bicycles that restricts them to less than this speed when operated on motor power alone.

...I thought a lot of people would be interested in this.... Besides, this would be great for the work commute. Use the engine to go to work so you don't break a sweat into your work clothes then you can pedal assist it home for exercise and better fuel economy. ...

A lot of people see adding a motor to a bicycle as "cheating" somehow, only as a way to avoid exercising--but they are truly mising the point. If you are trying to use a bicycle as your main transportation (that is, instead of a car) there are times and distances where pedaling really isn't practical.

This is the pages I have put up.

 

[garage sale GT]

JTE,

I bought one of the chinese made spit-fire engines which was a frame-mounted 2-cycle with a motorcycle style clutch. It was great but I am in Illinois and they wanted me to register it as a moped; the state police said there was no classification below that.

Now, I went and asked them so it's not like the cops stopped me; perhaps they'd just ignore you. I don't know.

Both the Chinese systems and the Golden Eagle mount a drive sprocket to the spokes of the rear wheel. This may increase breakage. You can buy a whole new hub with a sprocket attached for about $100, I think.

The problem with the Chinese kit I had was that pedaling required you to turn the engine drive chain and sprocket, and half of the clutch mechanism. There was lots of drag. I don't know how the Golden Eagle system is configured for pedaling but I figure it must be easier with a thin kevlar belt.

The Golden Eagle was reviewed by Popular Mechanics in '04 and I think the article is available online.

 

[Slugster438]

JTE,

I bought one of the chinese made spit-fire engines which was a frame-mounted 2-cycle with a motorcycle style clutch. It was great but I am in Illinois and they wanted me to register it as a moped; the state police said there was no classification below that.

Now, I went and asked them so it's not like the cops stopped me; perhaps they'd just ignore you. I don't know. ...

-I asked in November 2006. I asked at the local DMV and then I emailed the Sec of State's website, and they both basically said the same things. The state police who told you that were misinformed, or they were making an easy assumption--but a bicycle doesn't qualify as a moped, and cannot be registered as one in Illlinois.

I haven't been stopped on mine but then I haven't rode it much, but that is only due to lousy Illinois winter weather (-I haven't rode my regular bicycles much lately either-).

...Both the Chinese systems and the Golden Eagle mount a drive sprocket to the spokes of the rear wheel. This may increase breakage. You can buy a whole new hub with a sprocket attached for about $100, I think....

-The Golden Eagle kit uses a big plastic pulley that clips onto the spokes. The Chinese kits use a metal sprocket that bolts through the spokes, near the hub. Either setup can break spokes, the Chinese kits tend to do it more often but there's a trick you can do to prevent it and it's a good idea to start out with heavy-gauge spokes to begin with. ....The trick is to fasten the spokes together where they cross, so they don't rub and abrade each other. People used to do this by soldering wire wrapped around them, but using small zip-ties works nearly as well and is a lot easier to do.

...The problem with the Chinese kit I had was that pedaling required you to turn the engine drive chain and sprocket, and half of the clutch mechanism. There was lots of drag. I don't know how the Golden Eagle system is configured for pedaling but I figure it must be easier with a thin kevlar belt...

Others with Golden Eagle kits say they have very litle drag when pedalling. Mine can be pedalled, but I can certainly feel the clutch drag. Mine isn't really "broken in" however, that takes ~20 hours. It is pretty quick and simple to disengage the belt however, and then the only drag is the 10+ lbs extra the engine adds.
~

 

[garage sale GT]

-I asked in November 2006. I asked at the local DMV and then I emailed the Sec of State's website, and they both basically said the same things. The state police who told you that were misinformed, or they were making an easy assumption--but a bicycle doesn't qualify as a moped, and cannot be registered as one in Illlinois.
~

I guess I was unclear. They told me there was no classification between bicycle and moped. The law defined "bicycle" as anything with two wheels, powered by a human.

So I took this to mean that if I wanted to operate my 49cc motorized bicycle legally I would have to add whatever safety equipment such as mirrors or turn signals or speedometer which the DMV required to make it roadworthy. (Also wait till my traffic tickets are cleared up.)

I asked local PDs about motor assisted bikes and they said they can be operated on private property but if you can't register it then keep it off the street.

Of course bicycles are entitled to share the roadway but the state's definition of bicycle is very clear and does not include a motor assist regardless of whether it can go 15, 20, 25, etc or how big it is.

 

[Slugster438]

... Of course bicycles are entitled to share the roadway but the state's definition of bicycle is very clear and does not include a motor assist regardless of whether it can go 15, 20, 25, etc or how big it is.

Can you find exactly where it says that?
(please note the chapter, article and paragraph number)
~

 

[garage sale GT]

I know where it is. Why don't you find where it says different?

 

[Slugster438]

I know where it is. Why don't you find where it says different?

I'm sorry, I cannot help you.
~

 

[garage sale GT]

(625 ILCS 5/1‑106) (from Ch. 95 1/2, par. 1‑106)
Sec. 1‑106. Bicycle. Every device propelled by human power upon which any person may ride, having two tandem wheels except scooters and similar devices.
(Source: P.A. 85‑951.)

 

[JTE83]

Slugster - that's an interesting site you put up.

Did you notice those engine kits are mostly being put on cheap dept store / Walmart bikes? I checked out Walmart and 2 sporting goods stores and a bike shop for suitable bikes to attached the engine to. Well, Walmart bikes totally suck - bad braking power and there's play in the headset. Best bike was a Scott hybrid at a bike shop but it had an improper seatstay design. I would not risk myslef going 30+ mph on a cheap bike.

I want to put a Golden Eagle 25.4cc engine on my 2003 Cannondale F600 that only has 80 miles on it. But it has no place to mount the top bracket.

Can you guys post a pic of your bike setups?

I thought more people would be interested in something like this, but apparently not many are interested. It's funny how all of us are from Illinois.

 

[garage sale GT]

I have disassembled my bike. It was the $89 Meijer beach cruiser; I now use it for a salt bike. It was a pretty straightforward install though.

Post a pic of your F600 frame, maybe we'll think of something.

 

[Slugster438]

The IL definition of "bicycle" doesn't specifically exclude the use of engines, it only says that a bicycle has to have the capability to "be propelled by human power". The police enforce whatever the DMV says, and if the DMV doesn't say that motorized bicycles are prohibited, then they aren't. Ask the DMV website yourself if you want.

Slugster - Did you notice those engine kits are mostly being put on cheap dept store / Walmart bikes? .... I would not risk myslef going 30+ mph on a cheap bike.....

People use cheap MTB's because these bikes have suspension, but often it can be difficult to fit effective fenders, or racks.

People use newsboy-cruisers because they have fat tires (for shock absorption) and they are a bit more durable than MTB's (not having suspension to wear out) but cruisers also usually have full fenders. And if you weigh much near 200-lbs or more, cheap suspended MTBs frequently won't effectively support your weight anyway.
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As far as "what's a good bicycle to use",
You don't need a lot of gears because the engine can put out 2-3+ times as much power as you can anyway, you only pedal a couple strokes in a higher gear to help it get going and then you just sit and watch the scenery go by. If you get a running start at it, the engine will only need help going up the steeper hills.

You also don't need great brakes because the engine+clutch have a lot of drag if you let off the gas. Unless you're riding in mountains or in urban traffic, you won't need to use the bicycle's brakes very much. From 27 mph you coast down to ~5 mph and THEN you use the bicycles brakes.

It's strange but true--the kind of bike you'd want for pedaling is not the same kind of bike that's best for putting a motor on.
~

 

[JTE83]

Here's a pic of both my mtn bikes. The F600 only has 80 miles since I bought it in 2003! Bought it to work out to lose weight, put Armadillos on it and it was so slow! It's hard to pedal and go faster than 20 mph on this bike, so I bought a road bike and fell in love with road bikes. But it would be excellent with an engine on it! The braking is so good with those Avid disc brakes.

I would have preferred to put the engine on the 24" Pacific bike but it has a V brake clearance problem. I've actually gone faster in this bike than my Cannondale - hit 27.6 mph flats no wind on it with the panniers. It's got old school Suntour Beartrap pedals that go for $250 on ebay. I should change the pedals!

What does the top engine bracket do? Prevent motion to or from the seatpost?

I'm gonna ask Golden Eagle to design a upper bracket mount for bike that don't have an upper bracket mount location. They should do this to increase their sales.

Well, I've worked with fiberglass a long time ago doing body work on my old car back in college.

I don't want to put the engine a cheap bike and risk my life on it!

 

[garage sale GT]

One thing is for sure, don't get a Gru-bee. The Chinese frame-mount engines are big, looks like too big for that frame.

Since the drive belt is not parallel to the bracket which attaches at the axle, you do need another bracket to withstand the torque. Did you see the model built by "Jay" in the picture gallery? There is only the axle bracket; Jay drilled a hole in it halfway up and a hole in the seatstay, and bolted on a horizontal bracket.

Drilling through an Al frame is asking for trouble but I am sure you could find a place to clamp a bracket. Get a seatpost rack just for the clamp, or tape a bracket in place and then laminate a few layers of glass or polypro or something over it.