A bit OT, but it is bikes/NYC traffic/rock music

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Ted Bennett, Dec 10, 2005.



  1. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:23:18 GMT, Ted Bennett
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >http://digave.com/videos/red-web.mpg


    Entertaining, but if that's typical of NYC traffic either for the
    bikes or otherwise, I'm happy that I'm not there.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  2. Ted Bennett

    Ted Bennett Guest

    Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >>http://digave.com/videos/red-web.mpg

    >
    > Entertaining, but if that's typical of NYC traffic either for the
    > bikes or otherwise, I'm happy that I'm not there.


    Indeed. I'm surprised that none of those pedestrians just stiff-armed
    one of them rather than jump out of the way. It would certainly tempt
    me.

    At any rate, the probability laws will catch up with them sooner or
    later.

    --
    Ted Bennett
     
  3. damyth

    damyth Guest

    That traffic is nothing. I used to work (long time ago, in my high
    school days, as summer job/physical training) as a NYC bike messenger.
    It looks like that video was made in late fall/early winter, when
    traffic and pedestrians are nowhere as voluminous compared to summer.

    I also noticed one of the bikers was riding a mountain bike. Most (I'd
    estimate 80-85%) bike messengers in Manhattan ride modified fixies
    (i.e. front brake concession).

    In one shot you notice 3 steel plates in the road covering potholes.
    Those were the most treacherous things to bike messengers in NYC. In
    the rain you'd be guaranteed to wipe out on those things.

    In NYC, if you wanted to get somewhere in a hurry on a bike, the middle
    lane on the 6-8 lane avenues would almost always be empty, devoid of
    cars most times. Nearest the sidewalks are where most of the hazards
    are. (cars loading/unloading)
     
  4. damyth wrote:
    > That traffic is nothing. I used to work (long time ago, in my high
    > school days, as summer job/physical training) as a NYC bike messenger.
    > It looks like that video was made in late fall/early winter, when
    > traffic and pedestrians are nowhere as voluminous compared to summer.


    That race was on Halloween morning, I believe. Specifically to be
    devoid of traffic.


    > I also noticed one of the bikers was riding a mountain bike. Most (I'd
    > estimate 80-85%) bike messengers in Manhattan ride modified fixies
    > (i.e. front brake concession).
    >
    > In one shot you notice 3 steel plates in the road covering potholes.
    > Those were the most treacherous things to bike messengers in NYC. In
    > the rain you'd be guaranteed to wipe out on those things.


    In the dry they are treacherous too. Sometimes from all the cars
    bouncing over them, they shift a few inches opening a bottomless crack
    waiting to gobble up your front wheel.

    > In NYC, if you wanted to get somewhere in a hurry on a bike, the middle
    > lane on the 6-8 lane avenues would almost always be empty, devoid of
    > cars most times. Nearest the sidewalks are where most of the hazards
    > are. (cars loading/unloading)


    One also often runs into the situation of blowing through successive
    red lights going north or south, which means you are riding totaly
    alone, excet for the cars crossing. The green lights are timed, so if
    you get in the flow of a series of green lights, you are in a sea of
    cars (where it is usually less hectic in the middle lane), but if you
    get into a series of redlights (but don't stop of course) you get the
    whole 4-6 lanes to yourself.

    Joseph
     
  5. Ted Bennett wrote:
    > Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >
    > >>http://digave.com/videos/red-web.mpg

    > >
    > > Entertaining, but if that's typical of NYC traffic either for the
    > > bikes or otherwise, I'm happy that I'm not there.

    >
    > Indeed. I'm surprised that none of those pedestrians just stiff-armed
    > one of them rather than jump out of the way. It would certainly tempt
    > me.


    In one of the other videos (from Boston), the guy hits the mirror of a
    car and the driver goes bananas, and follows him for miles. Pedestrians
    at least can't catch up!

    Judging which pedestrians are safe to buzz is part of the deal!

    > At any rate, the probability laws will catch up with them sooner or
    > later.


    Or they will catch a dose of sanity.

    Joseph
     
  6. Werehatrack wrote:
    > On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:23:18 GMT, Ted Bennett
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >http://digave.com/videos/red-web.mpg

    >
    > Entertaining, but if that's typical of NYC traffic either for the
    > bikes or otherwise, I'm happy that I'm not there.


    NYC (Manhattan) traffic has a certain flow which makes it actually not
    that bad to ride in. These guys in the race are riding particularly
    obnoxiously and dangerously (in a very entertaining way!), but in
    general the speed of the cars, the level of attention the drivers
    exercise, the size of the lanes, the one-way streets, etc all somehow
    make bike riding not that bad, for a big city.

    As for the crazies, the guy with the camera isn't completely insane,
    and I suspect is not able to (or choses not to) keep up with the
    winners of such a race. I wonder what it looks like following them.

    Joseph
     
  7. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > damyth wrote:
    >> That traffic is nothing. I used to work (long time ago, in my high
    >> school days, as summer job/physical training) as a NYC bike
    >> messenger. It looks like that video was made in late fall/early
    >> winter, when traffic and pedestrians are nowhere as voluminous
    >> compared to summer.

    >
    > That race was on Halloween morning, I believe. Specifically to be
    > devoid of traffic.


    Halloween's a national holiday now? LOL

    That video is /at least/ two years old; saw it quite a long time ago.

    Bill S.
     
  8. damyth

    damyth Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Werehatrack wrote:
    > > On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:23:18 GMT, Ted Bennett
    > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > >http://digave.com/videos/red-web.mpg

    > >
    > > Entertaining, but if that's typical of NYC traffic either for the
    > > bikes or otherwise, I'm happy that I'm not there.

    >
    > NYC (Manhattan) traffic has a certain flow which makes it actually not
    > that bad to ride in. These guys in the race are riding particularly
    > obnoxiously and dangerously (in a very entertaining way!), but in
    > general the speed of the cars, the level of attention the drivers
    > exercise, the size of the lanes, the one-way streets, etc all somehow
    > make bike riding not that bad, for a big city.
    >


    I'd go much farther than that. Out of all major cities in the US I've
    ridden (and I've ridden in most major US cities), I feel Manhattan is
    the safest and most bike friendly *city* to ride. Synchronized street
    lights, traffic hardly ever exceeding 30mph, and reasonably wide lanes,
    make it a very good place to ride, in comparison to other cities. And
    virtually all bridges have accomodations for bicyclists/pedestrians.

    I was in fear of my life when riding in Portland, OR. That town has
    the worst roads (narrow + ditches) and the worst drivers (redneck
    SUVs). I can't believe that town routinely gets voted most bike
    friendly city in surveys. I guess the survey people didn't ride the
    roads I did.

    I'd ride in Manhattan any day over some podunk freeway jungle town any
    day.

    > As for the crazies, the guy with the camera isn't completely insane,
    > and I suspect is not able to (or choses not to) keep up with the
    > winners of such a race. I wonder what it looks like following them.
    >
    > Joseph
     
  9. damyth wrote in part:

    > I also noticed one of the bikers was riding a mountain bike. Most (I'd
    > estimate 80-85%) bike messengers in Manhattan ride modified fixies
    > (i.e. front brake concession).


    Notice that the dude in the dress is on a brakeless track bike.
    It's impressive when a rider in a dress without brakes can keep up
    like that in heavy traffic. He does have the benefit of watching the
    other riders' lines and using them as pedestrian blockers.

    Here is another Brunelle video, all track, no-brakes-allowed:

    www.digave.com/videos/monster.mpg

    Brunelle is a strong rider. Most of the riders in these videos are
    contending for top-five and many are older messengers with 10-15 yrs.
    experience. They have earned the ability to ride like that after years
    of hard knocks. They are not some coffeeshop posengers closing their
    eyes and hoping for the best, although it may seem like it at first
    glance.

    Robert
     
  10. In article
    <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > damyth wrote in part:
    >
    > > I also noticed one of the bikers was riding a mountain bike. Most (I'd
    > > estimate 80-85%) bike messengers in Manhattan ride modified fixies
    > > (i.e. front brake concession).

    >
    > Notice that the dude in the dress is on a brakeless track bike.
    > It's impressive when a rider in a dress without brakes can keep up
    > like that in heavy traffic. He does have the benefit of watching the
    > other riders' lines and using them as pedestrian blockers.
    >
    > Here is another Brunelle video, all track, no-brakes-allowed:
    >
    > www.digave.com/videos/monster.mpg


    dead link? correct url?
    My web browser did not get there.

    >
    > Brunelle is a strong rider. Most of the riders in these videos are
    > contending for top-five and many are older messengers with 10-15 yrs.
    > experience. They have earned the ability to ride like that after years
    > of hard knocks. They are not some coffeeshop posengers closing their
    > eyes and hoping for the best, although it may seem like it at first
    > glance.


    --
    Michael Press
     
  11. Michael Press wrote:

    > > Here is another Brunelle video, all track, no-brakes-allowed:
    > >
    > > www.digave.com/videos/monster.mpg

    >
    > dead link? correct url?
    > My web browser did not get there.


    It works on mine, and almost nothing works on
    mine. It is a big file, takes a while to load.
     
  12. Michael Press wrote on Monday 12 December 2005 03:16:

    >
    > dead link? correct url?
    > My web browser did not get there.
    >
    >

    Works ok here - it's 48/49 MB though, so will take a while to download
    unless you are behind a 10 Mb/s connection :)
    --
    Regards
    Alex
    The From address above is a spam-trap.
    The Reply-To address is valid
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] says...
    >
    >
    >That traffic is nothing. I used to work (long time ago, in my high
    >school days, as summer job/physical training) as a NYC bike messenger.
    >It looks like that video was made in late fall/early winter, when
    >traffic and pedestrians are nowhere as voluminous compared to summer.


    Huh? Late fall early winter is when the city is the most crowded. All the
    locals are in town and you get a bunch of tourist cloggin up all of the
    roads and sidewalks.

    >I also noticed one of the bikers was riding a mountain bike. Most (I'd
    >estimate 80-85%) bike messengers in Manhattan ride modified fixies
    >(i.e. front brake concession).


    This is true.

    >In NYC, if you wanted to get somewhere in a hurry on a bike, the middle
    >lane on the 6-8 lane avenues would almost always be empty, devoid of
    >cars most times. Nearest the sidewalks are where most of the hazards
    >are. (cars loading/unloading)


    Which avenues in Manhattan have 6-8 lanes? I can't think of any that have more
    than 5, not counting the two way ave's with three in each direction.
    ---------------
    Alex
     
  14. damyth

    damyth Guest

    Alex Rodriguez wrote:
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > [email protected] says...
    > >
    > >
    > >That traffic is nothing. I used to work (long time ago, in my high
    > >school days, as summer job/physical training) as a NYC bike messenger.
    > >It looks like that video was made in late fall/early winter, when
    > >traffic and pedestrians are nowhere as voluminous compared to summer.

    >
    > Huh? Late fall early winter is when the city is the most crowded. All the
    > locals are in town and you get a bunch of tourist cloggin up all of the
    > roads and sidewalks.
    >
    > >I also noticed one of the bikers was riding a mountain bike. Most (I'd
    > >estimate 80-85%) bike messengers in Manhattan ride modified fixies
    > >(i.e. front brake concession).

    >
    > This is true.
    >
    > >In NYC, if you wanted to get somewhere in a hurry on a bike, the middle
    > >lane on the 6-8 lane avenues would almost always be empty, devoid of
    > >cars most times. Nearest the sidewalks are where most of the hazards
    > >are. (cars loading/unloading)

    >
    > Which avenues in Manhattan have 6-8 lanes? I can't think of any that have more
    > than 5, not counting the two way ave's with three in each direction.


    Count them (don't forget the parking lanes):
    http://galleries.news24.com/2003/blackout/25.asp

    > ---------------
    > Alex
     
  15. Strayhorn

    Strayhorn Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    "damyth" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > [email protected] wrote:
    > > Werehatrack wrote:
    > > > On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 03:23:18 GMT, Ted Bennett
    > > > <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > >
    > > > >http://digave.com/videos/red-web.mpg
    > > >
    > > > Entertaining, but if that's typical of NYC traffic either for the
    > > > bikes or otherwise, I'm happy that I'm not there.

    > >
    > > NYC (Manhattan) traffic has a certain flow which makes it actually not
    > > that bad to ride in. These guys in the race are riding particularly
    > > obnoxiously and dangerously (in a very entertaining way!), but in
    > > general the speed of the cars, the level of attention the drivers
    > > exercise, the size of the lanes, the one-way streets, etc all somehow
    > > make bike riding not that bad, for a big city.



    I ride to stay in shape for surfing - and this video reminded me of
    surfing in crowded spots like Steamer's Lane in Santa Cruz or the
    Lighthouse at Hatteras. Pick your line and stick with it. Dodging the
    peds is like avoiding the clueless tourists who stand on the second sand
    bar in a break zone.

    The only time I was startled was when several riders ahead of the
    cameraman turned around to circle. Same with a group ride - I'm most
    afraid of someone who makes a quick surprise move in front of me.


    > I was in fear of my life when riding in Portland, OR. That town has
    > the worst roads (narrow + ditches) and the worst drivers (redneck
    > SUVs). I can't believe that town routinely gets voted most bike
    > friendly city in surveys. I guess the survey people didn't ride the
    > roads I did.


    I've never ridden in a congested city so I have no opinion but the rural
    roadways around the N.C. Triangle are fast becoming a jungle. The local
    bike club's maillist has a weekly posting of dangerous drivers to avoid
    with descriptions and license numbers. Males in sedans and yuppetts in
    their SUVs seem to predominate the watch list.

    --
    Strayhorn

    ┬│Excuse me, brother, who you jivin' with that cosmik debris?" - F.Z.
     
  16. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected]
    says...

    >I've never ridden in a congested city so I have no opinion but the rural
    >roadways around the N.C. Triangle are fast becoming a jungle. The local
    >bike club's maillist has a weekly posting of dangerous drivers to avoid
    >with descriptions and license numbers. Males in sedans and yuppetts in
    >their SUVs seem to predominate the watch list.


    I hope you are also reporting the dangerous drivers to the local PD. You
    can be sure that those drivers exhibit the same stupid behaviour all the
    time, not just around cyclists
    ---------------
    Alex
     
  17. Scott Gordo

    Scott Gordo Guest

    Ted Bennett wrote:
    > Werehatrack <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> Ted Bennett <[email protected]> wrote:

    > >
    > >>http://digave.com/videos/red-web.mpg

    > >
    > > Entertaining, but if that's typical of NYC traffic either for the
    > > bikes or otherwise, I'm happy that I'm not there.

    >
    > Indeed. I'm surprised that none of those pedestrians just stiff-armed
    > one of them rather than jump out of the way. It would certainly tempt
    > me.
    >
    > At any rate, the probability laws will catch up with them sooner or
    > later.
    >
    > --
    > Ted Bennett


    Hah! That traipse down 7th Avenue is my evening commute, and the
    Queensborough is part of my old route when I lived in northern
    Brooklyn.
    While I'm sympathetic to pedestrians (a couple of whom I've hit, though
    they were jaywalkers leaping out from between parked cars), riding all
    day in nyc's conditions will make you nutty. As tough as that video
    looks, it's actually 100 times harder to negotiate. It's all intuition,
    skill, awareness... and fate.
    With all that said, I've been doored, smacked, potholed, attacked,
    ticketed, oil-slicked, chased, hit, and I've seen an aggro cyclist
    scare an old lady with right-of-way crossing the street. For a variety
    of reasons, I've slowed down considerably. Most of the time.
    /s
     
  18. Alex Rodriguez wrote:
    > [email protected] says...
    >
    > >Count them (don't forget the parking lanes):
    > >http://galleries.news24.com/2003/blackout/25.asp

    >
    > Parking lanes don't count since they are parking lanes. Not lanes of travle.
    > :)


    Experienced NYC drivers can fit six cars across in four lanes of
    travel, though.

    People who've never visited NYC watching that video and freaking
    about the traffic density should remember that normal people in
    Manhattan rarely travel by driving a car anyway.
     
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