A question for the Danielson tifosi



B

Bob Schwartz

Guest
The guy's not inexperienced, he's been a road pro for six
years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
Discovery.

He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
right now.

He's spent the last four seasons riding for teams (Fassa
Bortolo and Discovery) with entries in the Tour and not
once has he been put on the start list. Whatever anyone
may think of Bruyneel, he knows a thing or two about
doing well in the Tour.

Come on now, admit it. His palmares are pretty light.

Come on now, admit it. He's not very good at riding his
bike.

Come on now, admit it. He doesn't win very often.

My question is this. How long is it going to take for
you guys to accept that his role is to dominate the minor
leagues of the domestic US road circuit? Like Gord Fraser,
who didn't win anything for years and then came to the US
and won everything in sight.

Just curious,

Bob Schwartz
 
On 09/03/2007 11:25 AM, in article
[email protected], "Bob Schwartz"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> The guy's not inexperienced, he's been a road pro for six
> years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
> Discovery.
>
> He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
> right now.
>
> He's spent the last four seasons riding for teams (Fassa
> Bortolo and Discovery) with entries in the Tour and not
> once has he been put on the start list. Whatever anyone
> may think of Bruyneel, he knows a thing or two about
> doing well in the Tour.
>
> Come on now, admit it. His palmares are pretty light.
>
> Come on now, admit it. He's not very good at riding his
> bike.
>
> Come on now, admit it. He doesn't win very often.
>
> My question is this. How long is it going to take for
> you guys to accept that his role is to dominate the minor
> leagues of the domestic US road circuit? Like Gord Fraser,
> who didn't win anything for years and then came to the US
> and won everything in sight.


I used to think like you ... But after reading about his giardia problems,
which have plagued him for the past 2-3 years, I'm inclined to cut him a
little slack.

If he's managed two top-10 finishes at the Vuelta, while harboring this bug,
imagine what he might have been able to do had he been 100% ... this year's
Vuelta would likely have been that chance to show what he can really do when
he's healthy; unfortunately, now we'll have to wait and see what Slipstream
has in mind.

No ... I don't think he's the next Lance, and God forbid that he become the
next LeMond; but could he become the next Andy Hampsten?



--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash
 
On Sep 3, 11:37 am, "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> On 09/03/2007 11:25 AM, in article
> [email protected], "Bob Schwartz"
>
>
>
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > The guy's not inexperienced, he's been a road pro for six
> > years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
> > Discovery.
>
> > He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
> > right now.
>
> > He's spent the last four seasons riding for teams (Fassa
> > Bortolo and Discovery) with entries in the Tour and not
> > once has he been put on the start list. Whatever anyone
> > may think of Bruyneel, he knows a thing or two about
> > doing well in the Tour.
>
> > Come on now, admit it. His palmares are pretty light.
>
> > Come on now, admit it. He's not very good at riding his
> > bike.
>
> > Come on now, admit it. He doesn't win very often.
>
> > My question is this. How long is it going to take for
> > you guys to accept that his role is to dominate the minor
> > leagues of the domestic US road circuit? Like Gord Fraser,
> > who didn't win anything for years and then came to the US
> > and won everything in sight.
>
> I used to think like you ... But after reading about his giardia problems,
> which have plagued him for the past 2-3 years, I'm inclined to cut him a
> little slack.
>
> If he's managed two top-10 finishes at the Vuelta, while harboring this bug,
> imagine what he might have been able to do had he been 100% ... this year's
> Vuelta would likely have been that chance to show what he can really do when
> he's healthy; unfortunately, now we'll have to wait and see what Slipstream
> has in mind.
>
> No ... I don't think he's the next Lance, and God forbid that he become the
> next LeMond; but could he become the next Andy Hampsten?

Could be. I don't know about winning the Giro but he's going to be a
good bet for stage wins in grand tours. IMO he is already one of the
best all-time American climbers, more talent even than Hampsten, more
than Vaughters.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Could be. I don't know about winning the Giro but he's going to be a
> good bet for stage wins in grand tours. IMO he is already one of the
> best all-time American climbers, more talent even than Hampsten, more
> than Vaughters.

By the time Hampsten was Danielson's age he had already won
a number of climbing prizes including multiple Tours de
Suisse and several Grand Tour mountain stages including the
epic Gavia Pass stage in the 1988 Giro.

Just wanted to point that out.

Bob Schwartz
 
On Sep 4, 11:20 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Could be. I don't know about winning the Giro but he's going to be a
> > good bet for stage wins in grand tours. IMO he is already one of the
> > best all-time American climbers, more talent even than Hampsten, more
> > than Vaughters.
>
> By the time Hampsten was Danielson's age he had already won
> a number of climbing prizes including multiple Tours de
> Suisse and several Grand Tour mountain stages including the
> epic Gavia Pass stage in the 1988 Giro.
>
> Just wanted to point that out.
>
> Bob Schwartz

Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
that won that Gavia stage.....
 
Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
> I used to think like you ... But after reading about his giardia problems,
> which have plagued him for the past 2-3 years, I'm inclined to cut him a
> little slack.
>
> If he's managed two top-10 finishes at the Vuelta, while harboring this bug,
> imagine what he might have been able to do had he been 100% ... this year's
> Vuelta would likely have been that chance to show what he can really do when
> he's healthy; unfortunately, now we'll have to wait and see what Slipstream
> has in mind.

The giardia was this past spring. And he has my sympathy for that.
The cure has been described as every bit as nasty as the illness.

He's apparently also had some Asian bug since 2003, whose impact
was subtle enough that he didn't know it was there.

Bob Schwartz
 
[email protected] wrote:
> Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
> that won that Gavia stage.....

Some trolls are more subtle than others.

Bob Schwartz
 
On Sep 3, 11:25 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:
> The guy's not inexperienced, he's been a road pro for six
> years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
> Discovery.

> He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
> right now.

He did start late, but yes he should be at or near his peak. He may in
fact be. However this season has hardly been one where he had the
opportunity to show it

> He's spent the last four seasons riding for teams (Fassa
> Bortolo and Discovery) with entries in the Tour and not
> once has he been put on the start list. Whatever anyone
> may think of Bruyneel, he knows a thing or two about
> doing well in the Tour.

When Tom was with them, Fassa put together a sprinters team to support
Petacchi. No climbers or GC contenders needed. When he moved to
Discovery he was still a bit of an unknown for grand tours, so they
kept him out of the big show.

> Come on now, admit it. His palmares are pretty light.
OK. But hardly invisible.

> Come on now, admit it. He's not very good at riding his bike.

Um, what?

> Come on now, admit it. He doesn't win very often.
Nor do most pros.

> My question is this. How long is it going to take for
> you guys to accept that his role is to dominate the minor
> leagues of the domestic US road circuit? Like Gord Fraser,
> who didn't win anything for years and then came to the US
> and won everything in sight.

I'll wait until his retirement and see how it all worked out. That's
why racing is racing. Mere opinions don't count for much.

DR
 
[email protected] wrote:
>> Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
>> that won that Gavia stage.....

Bob Schwartz wrote:
> Some trolls are more subtle than others.

Dutch trolls are as subtle as their cuisine.
 
Bob Schwartz schreef:
> By the time Hampsten was Danielson's age he had already won
> a number of climbing prizes including multiple Tours de
> Suisse and several Grand Tour mountain stages including the
> epic Gavia Pass stage in the 1988 Giro.

Please. I said no jokes for a week or so.


--
E. Dronkert
 
DirtRoadie wrote:
> On Sep 3, 11:25 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>> The guy's not inexperienced, he's been a road pro for six
>> years now, riding for Mercury, Saturn, Fassa Bortolo, and
>> Discovery.
>
>> He's not a young guy. He's 29, he should be at his peak
>> right now.
>
> He did start late, but yes he should be at or near his peak. He may in
> fact be. However this season has hardly been one where he had the
> opportunity to show it

"Near"? The canonical age of retirement is 32. That's a rather tight peak, if most riders don't reach it by 29.

I still recall CBS coverage of Paris-Roubaix in 1988. Describing Dirk Demol: "At 28, old for a cyclist." That was a bit laughable. But 29 is hardly pre-peak, physically.

Dan
 
On Sep 4, 1:46 pm, Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@y_a_h_o_o_._c_o_m>
wrote:
> DirtRoadie wrote:

> > He did start late, but yes he should be at or near his peak. He may in
> > fact be. However this season has hardly been one where he had the
> > opportunity to show it
>
> "Near"? The canonical age of retirement is 32. That's a rather tight peak, if most riders don't reach it by 29.
>
> I still recall CBS coverage of Paris-Roubaix in 1988. Describing Dirk Demol: "At 28, old for a cyclist." That was a bit laughable. But 29 is hardly pre-peak, physically.

Well, I would offer Levi as an example. I would say he peaked this
year - and he's 4-1/2 years older than Danielson. Clearly the clock
is ticking for Danielson, but it has not stopped.

DR
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Donald Munro <[email protected]> wrote:

> [email protected] wrote:
> >> Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
> >> that won that Gavia stage.....
>
> Bob Schwartz wrote:
> > Some trolls are more subtle than others.
>
> Dutch trolls are as subtle as their cuisine.

Hold the mayo?

--
tanx,
Howard

Fabergé eggs are elegant but I prefer Fabergé bacon.

remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
 
In article <[email protected]>,
Howard Kveck <[email protected]> wrote:

> In article <[email protected]>,
> Donald Munro <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > [email protected] wrote:
> > >> Not to shoot the wheels off your (valid) argument but it was Breukink
> > >> that won that Gavia stage.....
> >
> > Bob Schwartz wrote:
> > > Some trolls are more subtle than others.
> >
> > Dutch trolls are as subtle as their cuisine.
>
> Hold the mayo?

You're stealing WADA's lines, now.

--
Ryan Cousineau [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com/
"I don't want kids who are thinking about going into mathematics
to think that they have to take drugs to succeed." -Paul Erdos
 
Dan Connelly wrote:
> The canonical age of retirement is 32.

It is? I'd've said 36 or 37. But maybe my perception is skewed by
classy riders holding out longer.


--
E. Dronkert
 
On Sep 5, 12:03 am, Ewoud Dronkert <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Dan Connelly wrote:
> > The canonical age of retirement is 32.
>
> It is? I'd've said 36 or 37. But maybe my perception is skewed by
> classy riders holding out longer.
>
> --
> E. Dronkert


Here's a handy Pro Cyclist Retirement Age Chart for you guys:

Canonical age of retirement = 32 = Pre EPO / HGH
Modern "classy rider" age of retirement = 36/37 = Amgen / Eli Lilly
assisted

Thanks,
The Canonical DA74, lacking Class as per usual
 
On Sep 4, 10:20 am, Bob Schwartz <[email protected]>
wrote:
> [email protected] wrote:
> > Could be. I don't know about winning the Giro but he's going to be a
> > good bet for stage wins in grand tours. IMO he is already one of the
> > best all-time American climbers, more talent even than Hampsten, more
> > than Vaughters.
>
> By the time Hampsten was Danielson's age he had already won
> a number of climbing prizes including multiple Tours de
> Suisse and several Grand Tour mountain stages including the
> epic Gavia Pass stage in the 1988 Giro.
>
> Just wanted to point that out.

No doubt someone has already pointed out your very common error in
above statement.

I know what Hampster did but I don't see him throwing down a 1:42 on
Evans, guess we'll never know. TD will be at his best in 4 years or
so, and had form to win stages this year. Guess we'll never know that
either.
 
[email protected] wrote:
> I know what Hampster did but I don't see him throwing down a 1:42 on
> Evans, guess we'll never know. TD will be at his best in 4 years or
> so, and had form to win stages this year. Guess we'll never know that
> either.

Dumbass,

One of my points was that Danielson has time on his hands
in July to do citizen races like Evans. That's not
consistent with being one of the best American climbers
ever, and not something that Hampsten had available to
him.

Bob Schwartz
 
On 09/04/2007 07:58 AM, in article
[email protected], "Donald Munro"
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Steven L. Sheffield wrote:
>> No ... I don't think he's the next Lance, and God forbid that he become the
>> next LeMond; but could he become the next Andy Hampsten?
>
> You mean you're predicting he's going to win a blizzard ridden
> stage over the Gavia in the giro ? One in which no one from Holland
> has a chance of winning ?
>
> PS Just for Ewoud:
>
http://www.bikeradar.com/blogs/article/true-stories-andy-hampsten-the-gavia-1988
-12016


Now that's just friggin' hysterical!


--
Steven L. Sheffield
stevens at veloworks dot com
bellum pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est
ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea eye tee why you ti ay aitch
aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you
double-yew double-ewe dot flahute dot com [foreword] slash
 
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