A question on muscle aches and statins

Discussion in 'Health and medical' started by Pete Connors, Sep 30, 2003.

  1. Pete Connors

    Pete Connors Guest

    Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
    aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
    added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
    left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
    The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
    left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
    This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
    express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?
     
    Tags:


  2. Bill

    Bill Guest

    "Pete Connors" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
    > aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
    > added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
    > left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
    > The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
    > left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
    > This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
    > express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?


    I don't feel qualified to answer your question. However, very recently I had a
    very similar problem and it was diagnosed as a rotator cuff problem. Nobody
    suspected statins. I went through physical therapy and was advised to avoid
    certain exercise machines that put a strain on the shoulder - those that
    involve lifting weights over my head. And I'm doing better now.

    Bill
     
  3. x-no-archive: yes
    I'll tell you, if you do have the major problem with Satins, as I did..
    just be thankful you are aware of it. I wasn't until I asked the
    question on THIS newsgroup. Dr Chung picked up on it and suggested I
    have a CPK test, I did ..and sure nuff, it was 'out of range' and my
    cardio stopped the statins immediately ! no more ever !
    if you are really having this problem, get a CPK test.
    My leg muscles were just killing me. They just ached terribly..I
    attributed this to pushing my husband's wheelchair. It's the type of
    pain you have after you've overused a muscle and it Hurts. Sure nuff ,,
    it wasn't that it was the statins !
    good luck !
     
  4. Sounds like a typical gym injury to me. A good rule is the 5% rule,
    don't add more than 5% in weights at a time.

    Pete Connors <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
    > aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
    > added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
    > left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
    > The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
    > left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
    > This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
    > express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?
     
  5. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Pete Connors <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
    >aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
    >added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
    >left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
    >The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
    >left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
    >This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
    >express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?


    Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
    attach to the rotator cuff. this is a common injury because many of the weight
    room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
    joint. I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
    exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
    larger upper body muscles.

    You stopped the upper body workouts, continued the statin, and the pain slowly
    went away, right?
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  6. Pete Connors

    Pete Connors Guest

    On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:19:00 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >snip
    >
    >You stopped the upper body workouts, continued the statin, and the pain slowly
    >went away, right?

    That's what has nearly finished happening. I asked about the pain at
    my gym and they said to discontinue the upper body work until it got
    better. Nobody mentioned the words 'rotator cuff' - I should have
    asked this group earlier!
    Thanks to all for the responses.

    Pete C
     
  7. Harvest Mu_n

    Harvest Mu_n Guest

    On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:19:00 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
    >attach to the rotator cuff.


    The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.

    > this is a common injury because many of the weight
    >room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
    >joint.


    Not common at all. ime.

    > I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
    >exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
    >larger upper body muscles.


    I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
    that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
    of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.

    I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
    thing.
     
  8. Harvest Mu_n

    Harvest Mu_n Guest

    On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 09:32:51 +0100, Pete Connors
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >That's what has nearly finished happening. I asked about the pain at
    >my gym and they said to discontinue the upper body work until it got
    >better.


    You got lucky. Somebody, well intentioned but entirely off base, might
    have advised a full rotator cuff routine, whatever that is.

    > Nobody mentioned the words 'rotator cuff' - I should have
    >asked this group earlier!
    >Thanks to all for the responses.


    Welcome.

    Now, off to the ortho with you.
     
  9. Nel

    Nel Guest

    I know nothing about Statin, but I had a rotator cuff, and I know what you
    mean, can't bring the arm up behind you, or bending the arm at the elbow,
    can't bring it out to the side. Ouch!! I did the exercised at home after a
    few trips to the Therapist. I'm fine now.
    (I also was doing weights, and still do, but carefully).....Nel


    > Sounds like a typical gym injury to me. A good rule is the 5% rule,
    > don't add more than 5% in weights at a time.
    >
    > Pete Connors <[email protected]> wrote in message

    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Almost 8 years on from my MI and 3xCABG, I take atorvastatin and do
    > > aerobic exercise fairly strenuously (treadmill). Some months back I
    > > added some non-aerobic upper body exercises but stopped these when my
    > > left upper arm developed a muscular pain in a certain position.
    > > The pain typically occurred in the shower afterwards when I lifted my
    > > left arm to put shampoo on my hair; it has taken months to recede.
    > > This prompts my question: does statin-engendered muscle fatigue
    > > express itself most typically in single muscles, groups or whole body?
     
  10. Julianne

    Julianne Guest

    Question for you Mu, off topic.......


    I play a lot of tennis and have never had a rotator cuff problem but many
    fellow players have had injuries; some to the extent that permanently took
    them off the courts.

    Because I don't get to play as often as I like, I am wondering how do I go
    about keeping my rotator cuff healthy? I have only had one serious sports
    related injury about 15 years ago and I do not want another. Is there
    anything I can do to lessen my odds?

    j
    "Harvest Mu_n" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:19:00 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles

    that
    > >attach to the rotator cuff.

    >
    > The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.
    >
    > > this is a common injury because many of the weight
    > >room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
    > >joint.

    >
    > Not common at all. ime.
    >
    > > I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
    > >exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
    > >larger upper body muscles.

    >
    > I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
    > that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
    > of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.
    >
    > I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
    > thing.
    >
    >
     
  11. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Harvest Mu_n <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:19:00 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
    >>attach to the rotator cuff.

    >
    >The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.


    Four muscles and their tendons.

    >> this is a common injury because many of the weight
    >>room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
    >>joint.

    >
    >Not common at all. ime.


    Maybe it's due to something in the water around here. There was also an
    article in the Wall Street Journal a while back describing it as common. I
    guess it's a vague term. The point is--in context--it's more common than
    severe muscle pain from a statin, and that was the issue.

    >> I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
    >>exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
    >>larger upper body muscles.

    >
    >I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
    >that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
    >of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.


    >I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
    >thing.


    If there is still pain or any trouble, yes. But he said that went away.

    I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight training without
    first addressing the health and strength of the cuff. If it feels fine, I'd
    start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises. By that I mean the
    strengthening of the four muscles. If he has pain or restricted range of
    motion, I'd certainly see an orthopedist first. But I thought he said he was
    ok.

    This is Usenet, not a doctor's office.

    (Pete, if you'd like a set of exercises, I can snail mail you one, just email
    me. There's also good discussion of rotator cuff conditioning in the book by
    Everett Aaberg, called "Muscle Mechanics.")
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  12. Pete Connors

    Pete Connors Guest

    Yes, I am now OK and have recommenced some gentle upper body exercise.

    When the injury first exhibited itself it was because of the Fool's
    Principle ("the rules apply to everybody but me") in increasing
    weights too fast. I applied Occam's Razor and decided that the injury
    was probably exercise related, but was curious to know how
    statin-related muscle pain typically presented.

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:45:10 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Harvest Mu_n <[email protected]> wrote in part:
    >
    >>On Wed, 01 Oct 2003 02:19:00 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Sounds like you strained or possibly even partly tore one of the muscles that
    >>>attach to the rotator cuff.

    >>
    >>The rotator cuff IS a set of muscles and tendons.

    >
    >Four muscles and their tendons.
    >
    >>> this is a common injury because many of the weight
    >>>room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
    >>>joint.

    >>
    >>Not common at all. ime.

    >
    >Maybe it's due to something in the water around here. There was also an
    >article in the Wall Street Journal a while back describing it as common. I
    >guess it's a vague term. The point is--in context--it's more common than
    >severe muscle pain from a statin, and that was the issue.
    >
    >>> I'd recommend doing a full routine of rotator cuff strengthening
    >>>exercises for a good while before moving to the machinesthat focus on the
    >>>larger upper body muscles.

    >>
    >>I know that playing Usenet diagnosis is fraught with failure. I know
    >>that a "full routine" of internal/external rotation, if certain parts
    >>of the RC are damaged, may be the worst prescription possible.

    >
    >>I know that he needs to see an orthopaedist before he does any damn
    >>thing.

    >
    >If there is still pain or any trouble, yes. But he said that went away.
    >
    >I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight training without
    >first addressing the health and strength of the cuff. If it feels fine, I'd
    >start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises. By that I mean the
    >strengthening of the four muscles. If he has pain or restricted range of
    >motion, I'd certainly see an orthopedist first. But I thought he said he was
    >ok.
    >
    >This is Usenet, not a doctor's office.
    >
    >(Pete, if you'd like a set of exercises, I can snail mail you one, just email
    >me. There's also good discussion of rotator cuff conditioning in the book by
    >Everett Aaberg, called "Muscle Mechanics.")
     
  13. Harvest Mu_n

    Harvest Mu_n Guest

    On Wed, 1 Oct 2003 21:11:12 -0500, "Julianne" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Question for you Mu, off topic.......
    >
    >
    >I play a lot of tennis and have never had a rotator cuff problem but many
    >fellow players have had injuries; some to the extent that permanently took
    >them off the courts.


    Played a lot of tennis between 1980-1992, saw those injuries myself.

    >Because I don't get to play as often as I like, I am wondering how do I go
    >about keeping my rotator cuff healthy? I have only had one serious sports
    >related injury about 15 years ago and I do not want another. Is there
    >anything I can do to lessen my odds?


    Remember first, that your RC plays several roles. It seats the
    humeral head into the shoulder socket (stability), it internally and
    externally rotates your arm, it assists the lifting of your arm (elbow
    at side to elbow parallel to shoulder. Except for the humeral
    seating, the RC works in conjunction with the lats, pecs etc to
    accomplish arm movement tasks.

    http://physicaltherapy.about.com/library/weekly/aa103000a.htm

    Now, to your answer.

    The best way to strengthen a healthy RC is to lift weights in a proper
    regimen. All those things I mentioned above are typical arm movements
    in a well written weight program, aren't they?

    As an alternative, or for extra work, you could use very light weights
    performing three simple exercises (and I mean like 1/2 pound to start,
    20 reps, should feel a burn right before you end a set).

    http://familydoctor.org/handouts/265.html

    Well, okay, they have four but Number Two is redundant, imo but can't
    hurt to do it!

    Number 3 can be done lying on your back with two weights at once,
    crossing your stomach and returning to the floor, backs of the hand
    touching the floor.

    Tennis is a very high velocity joint action at the upper arm (humeral)
    joint and fatigue (misfiring and lack of coordination that ensues) is
    a common factor in RC injuries.

    I used to believe that additional, PT type of RC work was necessary in
    addition to a strength program, but, over the years, I had no
    difference in velocities gained (performance) or rate of injuries
    (prevention) with or without auxiliary RC programs.

    Lift well, eat less, walk fast, live long.

    Oooh, I like that!
     
  14. Harvest Mu_n

    Harvest Mu_n Guest

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 02:45:10 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>> this is a common injury because many of the weight
    >>>room upper body exercises can stress muscles involved in stabilizing the
    >>>joint.



    >>Not common at all. ime.


    >Maybe it's due to something in the water around here. There was also an
    >article in the Wall Street Journal a while back describing it as common. I
    >guess it's a vague term. The point is--in context--it's more common than
    >severe muscle pain from a statin, and that was the issue.


    I don't know the stats, one versus the other.


    >I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight training without
    >first addressing the health and strength of the cuff. If it feels fine, I'd
    >start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises.


    How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
    weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response.


    Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
     
  15. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Harvest Mu_n <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
    >weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response.


    Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
    when there is no pain and full range of movement? An MRI?
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  16. Harvest Mu_n

    Harvest Mu_n Guest


    >>How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
    >>weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response.



    On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:30:09 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
    >when there is no pain and full range of movement?


    Nothing. How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged
    or weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain
    response.

    >An MRI?


    Ain't gonna get one of those until you see the ortho at least twice,
    after rehab, after anti-inflammatoires, after an X-ray , after two
    examinations and, possibly, after a second opinion.

    Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
     
  17. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Harvest Mu_n <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >>Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
    >>when there is no pain and full range of movement?

    >
    >Nothing.


    We appear to agree, then.
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  18. Harvest Mu_n

    Harvest Mu_n Guest

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:48:47 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Harvest Mu_n <[email protected]> wrote in part:
    >
    >>>Then what would you recommend before doing any exercise for the rotator cuff
    >>>when there is no pain and full range of movement?

    >>
    >>Nothing.

    >
    >We appear to agree, then.


    Not at all.

    You said:

    "I was just warning Pete C. not to jump back into heavy weight
    training without first addressing the health and strength of the cuff.
    If it feels fine, I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening
    exercises.

    I disagreed and still do:

    "How it "feels" may be inconsequential to its health. Damaged or
    weakened RC function does not necessarily show up in a pain response."

    Pete is coming off an injury. How it feels is secondary to how it is
    diagnosed, what pathologies still exist.

    He needs a firm diagnosis not Usenet opinion that "If it feels fine,
    I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises." This
    is bad advice.

    Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
     
  19. Jim Chinnis

    Jim Chinnis Guest

    Harvest Mu_n <[email protected]> wrote in part:

    >Pete is coming off an injury. How it feels is secondary to how it is
    >diagnosed, what pathologies still exist.
    >
    >He needs a firm diagnosis not Usenet opinion that "If it feels fine,
    >I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises." This
    >is bad advice.


    It's always better to see a physician after an injury to the cuff. But that
    can't be done here.

    I think we agree whether you think so or not.
    --
    Jim Chinnis Warrenton, Virginia, USA
     
  20. Harvest Mu_n

    Harvest Mu_n Guest

    On Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:33:31 GMT, Jim Chinnis
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >>He needs a firm diagnosis not Usenet opinion that "If it feels fine,
    >>I'd start with a full set of gradual strengthening exercises." This
    >>is bad advice.

    >
    >It's always better to see a physician after an injury to the cuff. But that
    >can't be done here.


    Nowhere did I read that Pete couldn't, wouldn't or shouldn't go to an
    ortho.

    >I think we agree whether you think so or not.


    I don't think so.

    Lift well, Eat less, Walk fast, Live long.
     
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