A REALLY big question from a South Beach Dieter



But the bulk of doctors are way behind the curve on diet research.

In news:[email protected],
Anthony <[email protected]> stated
| Well sure, it's possible. What's odd is that here's a guy who has
| had two invasive procedures to unblock ateries and you'd think that
| his docs would have prescribed a very specific diet and exercise
| regime; I know this has been the case with friends of mine who have
| had cardio events or surgery. Seems a bit casual for him to just drop
| by a low carb grow and ask what we think.
 
But the bulk of doctors are way behind the curve on diet research.

In news:[email protected],
Anthony <[email protected]> stated
| Well sure, it's possible. What's odd is that here's a guy who has
| had two invasive procedures to unblock ateries and you'd think that
| his docs would have prescribed a very specific diet and exercise
| regime; I know this has been the case with friends of mine who have
| had cardio events or surgery. Seems a bit casual for him to just drop
| by a low carb grow and ask what we think.
 
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:43:28 GMT, Perdu
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 11:12:23 -0500, "Bob M" <[email protected]>
> said
> :
>
>> The cholesterol/heart disease link is a myth. The link between high fat
>> and heart disease is a myth (although the link between high carb and
>> heart
>> disease may not be).
>
> It's certainly is caused by something. If nothing else, by heredity. But
> then there is the chicken and the egg question. Did great great grampa
> got
> coronary heart disease with clogged arteries from smoking? High fat?
> Processed foods? High carb? Sedentary life style? Geographical
> conditions?
> Dairy? Or just genetics?
>
> Add to that that he had left Europe and then landed in NY, Iowa, San
> Francisco, and so on. Marrying someone with different genetics, diet
> habits
> and had kids. Some of whom were skinny and light eaters. Some others,
> were
> fat and pigged out on pasta.
>
> No answers. It is individual. There are however basic truths. Which is
> what we're deciphering.
>
> Even as I low carb and losing weight, feel great and things are under
> very
> good control, I wonder. I could live very well on a high fat, high
> cholesterol (eggs) diet. But there is no true long term knowledge to
> support for or against. Not even the low calorie, eat less, moronically
> exercise your life away approach guarantees anything.
>
> My step dad is 82. Has been drunk for 60 to 70 years. This being almost
> 10
> AM, it is likely he is well sauced and out on his patio chain smoking. He
> is not active. The only exercise he had in the past few years is an
> occasional bowel movement. He eats like a pig. And is very skinny.
> Is there justice? And are there any studies that put this guy up
> against a
> 30 year old fat person who is dying from doing the same thing, and won't
> last until Christmas?
>
> You play the cards you're dealt. It's personal. And it ain't pretty. Or
> fair.

About the only thing that's sure is death. Hardening of the arteries
does seem to be pervasive and related to age, although hardening of the
arteries is not positively correlated with heart disease. Some people
show hardening of the arteries but little heart disease.

My grandfather is also over 80, smoked for many years, was an alcoholic
for many years, worked in the coal mines, never exercised, and ate a
horrible diet by any standard. Someone did a study of people who lived a
long time, and by and large, there were no commonalities, save good genes.

From my point of view, I don't believe saturated fat is bad. That doesn't
mean that I eat nothing but saturated fat -- as with all fat, too much
intake means higher calories. But I certainly don't avoid saturated fat.

--
Bob in CT
 
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 17:43:28 GMT, Perdu
<[email protected]> wrote:

> On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 11:12:23 -0500, "Bob M" <[email protected]>
> said
> :
>
>> The cholesterol/heart disease link is a myth. The link between high fat
>> and heart disease is a myth (although the link between high carb and
>> heart
>> disease may not be).
>
> It's certainly is caused by something. If nothing else, by heredity. But
> then there is the chicken and the egg question. Did great great grampa
> got
> coronary heart disease with clogged arteries from smoking? High fat?
> Processed foods? High carb? Sedentary life style? Geographical
> conditions?
> Dairy? Or just genetics?
>
> Add to that that he had left Europe and then landed in NY, Iowa, San
> Francisco, and so on. Marrying someone with different genetics, diet
> habits
> and had kids. Some of whom were skinny and light eaters. Some others,
> were
> fat and pigged out on pasta.
>
> No answers. It is individual. There are however basic truths. Which is
> what we're deciphering.
>
> Even as I low carb and losing weight, feel great and things are under
> very
> good control, I wonder. I could live very well on a high fat, high
> cholesterol (eggs) diet. But there is no true long term knowledge to
> support for or against. Not even the low calorie, eat less, moronically
> exercise your life away approach guarantees anything.
>
> My step dad is 82. Has been drunk for 60 to 70 years. This being almost
> 10
> AM, it is likely he is well sauced and out on his patio chain smoking. He
> is not active. The only exercise he had in the past few years is an
> occasional bowel movement. He eats like a pig. And is very skinny.
> Is there justice? And are there any studies that put this guy up
> against a
> 30 year old fat person who is dying from doing the same thing, and won't
> last until Christmas?
>
> You play the cards you're dealt. It's personal. And it ain't pretty. Or
> fair.

About the only thing that's sure is death. Hardening of the arteries
does seem to be pervasive and related to age, although hardening of the
arteries is not positively correlated with heart disease. Some people
show hardening of the arteries but little heart disease.

My grandfather is also over 80, smoked for many years, was an alcoholic
for many years, worked in the coal mines, never exercised, and ate a
horrible diet by any standard. Someone did a study of people who lived a
long time, and by and large, there were no commonalities, save good genes.

From my point of view, I don't believe saturated fat is bad. That doesn't
mean that I eat nothing but saturated fat -- as with all fat, too much
intake means higher calories. But I certainly don't avoid saturated fat.

--
Bob in CT
 
....
: Since "support" is in the name of the newsgroup, do you think you
: might be able to come up with something a bit more useful?

Not from J.C., Gary. He is full of hatred.

Gary, you said you are 71. That's a long time of living and eating a certain
way. You simply cannot expect to go on a diet and erase those 71 years of
previous living. It doesn't work that way. Then, some of the problem might
be hereditary. It sounds to me as if you are saying, "Well, I lived a
certain way for about 70 years and then I changed recently, and the South
Beach diet didn't erase all of my bad habits so the darned South Beach diet
is bad for me." That's like wishing for a miracle!

On the other hand, those stents will keep you going for a good number of
years! Be thankful for that. And enjoy eating a more healthful way.

Pat in TX
 
....
: Since "support" is in the name of the newsgroup, do you think you
: might be able to come up with something a bit more useful?

Not from J.C., Gary. He is full of hatred.

Gary, you said you are 71. That's a long time of living and eating a certain
way. You simply cannot expect to go on a diet and erase those 71 years of
previous living. It doesn't work that way. Then, some of the problem might
be hereditary. It sounds to me as if you are saying, "Well, I lived a
certain way for about 70 years and then I changed recently, and the South
Beach diet didn't erase all of my bad habits so the darned South Beach diet
is bad for me." That's like wishing for a miracle!

On the other hand, those stents will keep you going for a good number of
years! Be thankful for that. And enjoy eating a more healthful way.

Pat in TX
 
Pat wrote:

> On the other hand, those stents will keep you going for a good number of
> years! Be thankful for that. And enjoy eating a more healthful way.

If a stent lasts two years, you are lucky.

Marsha/Ohio
 
I've read that they have pretty much switched to a new type of stent
containing embedded medication that appears to last considerably longer.
http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2003/05/19/bisb0519.htm

In news:[email protected],
Marsha <[email protected]> stated
| Pat wrote:
|
|| On the other hand, those stents will keep you going for a good
|| number of years! Be thankful for that. And enjoy eating a more
|| healthful way.
|
| If a stent lasts two years, you are lucky.
|
| Marsha/Ohio
 
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 19:55:09 -0500, "Anthony" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Bob M" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:eek:[email protected]...
>>> Don't you think your doctors are the people most likely to give good
>>> advice?
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Absolutely not. Doctors have no clue.
>>
>> --
>So who do you think? Members of Congress perhaps? Priests? Jesse Jackson?
>

Actually, I think the members of this group, on average, can out
perform 90 percent of doctors in the quality of advice given.

Doctors have two main problems. They were schooled too long ago by
doctors who were schooled too long ago. They have a vested interest
in giving advice based on how much money they make from the drug
companies.

Anthony, you have a perverted sense of doctors having god like
qualities. Wake up befofe one of them kills you.

PJ
 
Perdu wrote:
> The truth seems that there is not enough data out there on this yet. They
> had barely passed 10 years of regular usage. They're now placing regularly
> several hundreds of stents across the nation and in the world. Data will
> follow.
>
> There will also be a difference between people who get a wake up call and
> change their minds about their lifestyle, and the guy I met still at a pack
> and a half a day, after 8 1/2 years with his first stent. Many factors
> involved.

The same is true for open-heart surgery. Some grafts will
last 30 years, some close within days. The circumstances
cannot always be controlled by the patient. Generally,
smoking cessation, exercise, diabetes control, and
hypertension control work for most.

> I was also told the blood thinner (Plaxil?) is taken for 2 months or so.
> The aspirin is taken for the rest of the person's life. But aspirin is
> advised to be taken long before a stent goes in. Just watch TV. Over 40?
> Start sucking on aspirin.

Probably Plavix. Patients have to be very careful about
taking the blood thinner. Any interruption in dosage can
lead to embolism.

> Stents are an incredible alternative to open heart surgery. I was also
> amazed when they placed the stent heart valve. Then went on to discuss the
> Robot that will go in through a hole in the sternum, and do closed-open
> heart surgery, doing a bypass internally.

Stents are a very good alternative for those who are not
candidates for surgery, but there are those who would be
better served with surgery, such as diabetics with small
vessels and those with left main disease or triple-vessel
disease. In general, I look at stents as a sort of "you can
pay me now or you can pay me later" treatment. Though
open-heart surgery is more of a risk and recovery time is
slower, the results are generally better in the long term.

As an aside, our surgeons are already using the da Vinci
robotic system. There is a long learning curve and much
training to get started.

http://www.intuitivesurgical.com/products/da_vinci.html


> Don't blink your eye. Science is advancing very quickly.

You betcha !

Marsha/Ohio
 
"Perdu" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I was also told the blood thinner (Plaxil?)

Plavix, I think, Paxil is an antidepressant.

--
No Husband Has Ever Been Shot While Doing The Dishes



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