A sad search on news.google.com

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Sc Hiker Biker, Jan 29, 2003.

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  1. I searched the keyword bicyclist on news.google.com sorted by date.

    http://news.google.com/news?q=bicyclist&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d

    Sad to say, many of the stories were of accidents and such. My question is, have they done a study
    of the mortality rate per hours ridden on a bike versus hours ridden in a car? I am curious to see
    the statistics on this. I personally think the odds of getting killed on a bicycle riding legally
    are minimal.
     
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  2. In article <[email protected]>, SC Hiker Biker <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I searched the keyword bicyclist on news.google.com sorted by date.
    >
    > http://news.google.com/news?q=bicyclist&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d
    >
    > Sad to say, many of the stories were of accidents and such. My question is, have they done a study
    > of the mortality rate per hours ridden on a bike versus hours ridden in a car? I am curious to see
    > the statistics on this. I personally think the odds of getting killed on a bicycle riding legally
    > are minimal.

    "Bicyclist makes it home okay" is even less newsworthy than "dog bites man". Under what other
    circumstances do you expect a bicyclist to make the newspapers?

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  3. SC Hiker Biker wrote:
    >
    > I searched the keyword bicyclist on news.google.com sorted by date.
    >
    > http://news.google.com/news?q=bicyclist&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d
    >
    > Sad to say, many of the stories were of accidents and such. My question is, have they done a study
    > of the mortality rate per hours ridden on a bike versus hours ridden in a car? I am curious to see
    > the statistics on this. I personally think the odds of getting killed on a bicycle riding legally
    > are minimal.

    Try starting here: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

    --
    Frank Krygowski [email protected]
     
  4. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:28:52 -0800, <[email protected]>, Ryan Cousineau
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Bicyclist makes it home okay" is even less newsworthy than "dog bites man".

    Though I never get tired of hearing it.
    --
    zk
     
  5. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:

    > Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:28:52 -0800, <[email protected]>, Ryan Cousineau
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >"Bicyclist makes it home okay" is even less newsworthy than "dog bites man".
    >
    > Though I never get tired of hearing it.

    That's so weird, last night I caught "Trauma" and they had some poor guy who'd been doored and had
    probably broken his neck, just a regular guy riding his bike. He was coming home from an AA meeting
    and worried everyone would think he'd been high. Fortunately he didn't seem to be paralyzed.
     
  6. Sparhawk

    Sparhawk Guest

    On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:46:10 GMT, [email protected] (Marlene Blanshay) wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    >
    >> Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:28:52 -0800, <[email protected]>, Ryan Cousineau
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> >"Bicyclist makes it home okay" is even less newsworthy than "dog bites man".
    >>
    >> Though I never get tired of hearing it.
    >
    >That's so weird, last night I caught "Trauma" and they had some poor guy who'd been doored and had
    >probably broken his neck, just a regular guy riding his bike. He was coming home from an AA meeting
    >and worried everyone would think he'd been high. Fortunately he didn't seem to be paralyzed.

    What would be a very minor incident while riding in a car, turns into a life, health threathing
    injury while on a bicycle.

    Ride agressively and maintain your situational awarness at all times.

    Riding like an old lady or goody two shoes is a sure way of getting yourself or others
    killed/injured while on a bike.

    Drivers are not out to get your and most don't even realize that you are there, make them see you.

    One of the primary reasons cyclists are killed is because the motorist didn't see them, don't try to
    blend in, try to stand out!

    Sparhawk
     
  7. "Sparhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    >
    > Ride agressively and maintain your situational awarness at all times.
    >
    > Riding like an old lady or goody two shoes is a sure way of getting yourself or others
    > killed/injured while on a bike.
    >
    > Drivers are not out to get your and most don't even realize that you are there, make them see you.
    >
    > One of the primary reasons cyclists are killed is because the motorist didn't see them, don't try
    > to blend in, try to stand out!
    >

    Here, I think, is an example of what you are saying:

    A week ago today, I lost traction in a corner on a wet road and broke a couple of ribs, etc.
    Yesterday, I did the same ride again but, due to my discomfort, much more slowly and cautiously. The
    difference in how the cars treated me was eye-opening. The roads were one lane each way with many
    curves. Usually, I take the lane everywhere except where I think it is safe for someone to pass me.
    And I am usually not far off the speed limit. And I (almost) never have any problem with the cars.
    But when I was riding yesterday, staying over to the side and going more slowly, it was scary.

    I know this is just a small anecdotal sample. But I did not expect what I experienced. When I acted
    like a car, I was treated sort of like a car. When I acted more like a pedestrian, I was treated
    like a pedestrian. The cars seem to assume I could and would jump out of their way.

    I can see now how someone starting out riding these roads for the first time would be frightened.
    And rightly so.
     
  8. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "Sparhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 17:46:10 GMT, [email protected] (Marlene Blanshay) wrote:
    >
    > >In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] wrote:
    > >
    > >> Mon, 27 Jan 2003 21:28:52 -0800, <[email protected]>, Ryan
    > >> Cousineau <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >"Bicyclist makes it home okay" is even less newsworthy than "dog bites man".
    > >>
    > >> Though I never get tired of hearing it.
    > >
    > >That's so weird, last night I caught "Trauma" and they had some poor guy who'd been doored and
    > >had probably broken his neck, just a regular guy riding his bike. He was coming home from an AA
    > >meeting and worried everyone would think he'd been high. Fortunately he didn't seem to be
    > >paralyzed.
    >
    > What would be a very minor incident while riding in a car, turns into a life, health threathing
    > injury while on a bicycle.
    >
    > Ride agressively and maintain your situational awarness at all times.

    Perhaps, but in this case (dooring) a simple rule suffices to eliminate the danger: don't ride
    within reach of an opening door. Maybe that's what you mean about riding "aggressively", although
    that wouldn't be my choice of terms.
     
  9. Kris Hardy

    Kris Hardy Guest

    Waldo, I enjoyed your story, and must say that it mirrors my experiences exactly.

    Along those same lines, I always remind myself whenever I get into traffic that I am a human-powered
    motorcycle (albeit, a bit lower top speed). I've found that if I follow the rules of the road, take
    a lane when necessary, don't pass cars on the right, take a lane at stop lights rather than hugging
    the curb, etc..., I very rarely have problems. For some reason, drivers seem much more tolerant (or
    aware) of my presence.
     
  10. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Waldo Hinshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Sparhawk" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Ride agressively and maintain your situational awarness at all times.
    > >
    > > Riding like an old lady or goody two shoes is a sure way of getting yourself or others
    > > killed/injured while on a bike.
    > >
    > > Drivers are not out to get your and most don't even realize that you are there, make them
    > > see you.
    > >
    > > One of the primary reasons cyclists are killed is because the motorist didn't see them, don't
    > > try to blend in, try to stand out!
    > >
    >
    > Here, I think, is an example of what you are saying:
    >
    > A week ago today, I lost traction in a corner on a wet road and broke a couple of ribs, etc.
    > Yesterday, I did the same ride again but, due to my discomfort, much more slowly and cautiously.
    > The difference in how the
    cars
    > treated me was eye-opening. The roads were one lane each way with many curves. Usually, I take the
    > lane everywhere except where I think it is
    safe
    > for someone to pass me. And I am usually not far off the speed limit. And
    I
    > (almost) never have any problem with the cars. But when I was riding yesterday, staying over to
    > the side and going more slowly, it was scary.
    >
    > I know this is just a small anecdotal sample. But I did not expect what I experienced. When I
    > acted like a car, I was treated sort of like a car.
    When
    > I acted more like a pedestrian, I was treated like a pedestrian. The cars seem to assume I could
    > and would jump out of their way.
    >
    > I can see now how someone starting out riding these roads for the first
    time
    > would be frightened. And rightly so.

    Your observations are correct.

    Robin Hubert
     
  11. > Sad to say, many of the stories were of accidents and such. My question is, have they done a study
    > of the mortality rate per hours ridden on a bike versus hours ridden in a car? I am curious to see
    > the statistics on this. I personally think the odds of getting killed on a bicycle riding legally
    > are minimal.

    The British gov't figures of deaths per kilometre are given on the Dept for Transport web site
    <www.transtat.dft.gov.uk> I am not sure of the offical numbers to convert those to deaths per hour
    or deaths per trip (cyclists tend to make shorter trips than motorists).

    The year 2000 deaths per 10^9 kilometres are

    air - 0.02 rail - 0.49 water - 0.8 bus - 0.3 car - 2.8 van - 1.0 motorcycle etc. - 130. bike - 30
    pedestrian - 48

    The year 2000 seems to have been especially safe year for cycling, but cycling is safer than walking
    every year.

    Jeremy Parker
     
  12. Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > SC Hiker Biker wrote:
    > >
    > > I searched the keyword bicyclist on news.google.com sorted by date.
    > >
    > > http://news.google.com/news?q=bicyclist&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d
    > >
    > > Sad to say, many of the stories were of accidents and such. My question is, have they done a
    > > study of the mortality rate per hours ridden on a bike versus hours ridden in a car? I am
    > > curious to see the statistics on this. I personally think the odds of getting killed on a
    > > bicycle riding legally are minimal.
    >
    > Try starting here: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm

    This Isaacs guy sounds like a know it all to me. Just reading his posts on this thread. We have to
    ride "aggresively" to ensure our survival on the road. Situational awareness and aggresiveness have
    kept me from getting run over by cars and inattentive people more times than I can count. You can't
    let your guard down out there. You'll get killed on a busier road. People in cars, don't see you.
    Hardly ever. I'd prefer aggressive over assertive any day. That's just my 2 cents. Ride like you
    mean it. Sparhawk, if you're ever in NC, come on out and ride with us.

    Tom
     
  13. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Tom Arsenault" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Frank Krygowski <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > SC Hiker Biker wrote:
    > > >
    > > > I searched the keyword bicyclist on news.google.com sorted by date.
    > > >
    > > > http://news.google.com/news?q=bicyclist&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&scoring=d
    > > >
    > > > Sad to say, many of the stories were of accidents and such. My
    question
    > > > is, have they done a study of the mortality rate per hours ridden on a bike versus hours
    > > > ridden in a car? I am curious to see the statistics
    on
    > > > this. I personally think the odds of getting killed on a bicycle
    riding
    > > > legally are minimal.
    > >
    > > Try starting here: http://www.kenkifer.com/bikepages/health/risks.htm
    >
    > This Isaacs guy sounds like a know it all to me. Just reading his posts on this thread. We have to
    > ride "aggresively" to ensure our survival on the road. Situational awareness and aggresiveness
    > have kept me from getting run over by cars and inattentive people more times than I can count. You
    > can't let your guard down out there. You'll get killed on a busier road. People in cars, don't see
    > you. Hardly ever. I'd prefer aggressive over assertive any day. That's just my 2 cents. Ride like
    > you mean it. Sparhawk, if you're ever in NC, come on out and ride with us.

    Aggressive is a negative term in today's PC society.

    Being aggressive when you're the little guy being shoved around otherwise is good thinking
    in my book.

    Robin Hubert
     
  14. Jake Khuon

    Jake Khuon Guest

    ### On Tue, 28 Jan 2003 03:01:10 GMT, SC Hiker Biker <[email protected]> [SHB] casually
    ### decided to expound upon rec.bicycles.misc the following thoughts about A sad search on
    ### news.google.com:

    SHB> Sad to say, many of the stories were of accidents and such. My question is, have they done a
    SHB> study of the mortality rate per hours ridden on a bike versus hours ridden in a car? I am
    SHB> curious to see the statistics on this. I personally think the odds of getting killed on a
    SHB> bicycle riding legally are minimal.

    "The first automobile crash in the United States occurred in New York City in 1896 when a motor
    vehicle collided with a pedalcycle rider (Famous First Facts, by Joseph Kane)."

    The NHTSA compiles data every year on all types of highway vehicle crash statistics. There's a nice
    web report page at:

    http://www-fars.nhtsa.dot.gov/finalReport.cfm?stateid=0&year=2001&title=People&title2=Pedalcyclists

    For those who wish to view the findings, the latest overview available is for 2001. There is a
    special section for cyclists as well as comparison charts.

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2001/2001overview.pdf

    For the cycling-only fatalities:

    http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/pdf/nrd-30/NCSA/TSF2001/2001pedal.pdf

    --
    /*===================[ Jake Khuon <[email protected]> ]======================+
    | Packet Plumber, Network Engineers /| / [~ [~ |) | | --------------- | for Effective Bandwidth
    | Utilisation / |/ [_ [_ |) |_| N E T W O R K S |
    +=========================================================================*/
     
  15. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 05:47:39 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Being aggressive when you're the little guy being shoved around otherwise is good thinking
    >in my book.

    Anyway, it's not "aggressive" it's "assertive" - a very different prospect.

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  16. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On Sat, 01 Feb 2003 05:47:39 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >Being aggressive when you're the little guy being shoved around otherwise
    is
    > >good thinking in my book.
    >
    > Anyway, it's not "aggressive" it's "assertive" - a very different prospect.

    I can't disagree but anyone I've spoken to describes it as "aggressive", as in, "why are you so
    aggressive?" No one has ever described my cycling or personality as "assertive".

    Robin Hubert
     
  17. Zoot Katz

    Zoot Katz Guest

    Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:00:59 GMT, <LVd%[email protected]>, "Robin
    Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> >Being aggressive when you're the little guy being shoved around otherwise is a good thinking in
    >> >my book.
    >>
    >> Anyway, it's not "aggressive" it's "assertive" - a very different prospect.
    >
    >I can't disagree but anyone I've spoken to describes it as "aggressive", as in, "why are you so
    >aggressive?" No one has ever described my cycling or personality as "assertive".
    >
    Lift them by their windpipe and while squeezing, tell them to shut up, mind their own business and
    leave you dafuk alone.

    That's assertive.

    Agressive would entail hunting them down.
    --
    zk
     
  18. Just Zis Guy

    Just Zis Guy Guest

    On Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:00:59 GMT, "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Anyway, it's not "aggressive" it's "assertive" - a very different prospect.

    >I can't disagree but anyone I've spoken to describes it as "aggressive", as in, "why are you so
    >aggressive?" No one has ever described my cycling or personality as "assertive".

    That's a hard one to address. It's not aggressive, though, is it? I mean, aggressive cycling is what
    cycle couriers do, and they have the kil rate to prove it. On the road, I'm assertive. When there
    isn't room to pass safely, I make damn sure they don't pass by moving out far enough that it becomes
    plain that they must wait for a safe space or run me down. Most cagers are (allegedly) human, so
    they wait.

    I have a lot of peole pass to close and cut in too soon when there is no need - plenty of room. I
    have other people who follow a line of cars passing and realise when the car in front cuts in that
    there's a f***ing great truck coming towards them - those are the scary ones. For them I have disc
    brakes and an Air Zound so they don't forget I'm there (cagers seem unable to perceive more than one
    vehicle at a time
    - either the truck or the bike they are halfway past). But for the most part riding a bike is a
    lot more fun than sitting in a mobile death greenhouse breathing pollution (yes, it is worse
    inside the tin box, plus the exercise boosts our immune system). Also quite often quicker!

    I hasten to add, I have a car. Well, as a family, we have a car - we sold the second car because it
    was used only once in six weeks or so. I am a long-time car enthusiast, and can do almost anything
    on a car which doesn't require a tool I don't yet have. And I also have a huge collection of auto
    tools :) I have rebuilt gearboxes and all sorts - I just cannot imagine what in the world I was
    thinking of when I used to drive to work every day. I must have been out of my mind! But now I'm out
    of my car :-D

    Guy
    ===
    ** WARNING ** This posting may contain traces of irony. http://www.chapmancentral.com (BT ADSL and
    dynamic DNS permitting)
    NOTE: BT Openworld have now blocked port 25 (without notice), so old mail addresses may no longer
    work. Apologies.
     
  19. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Zoot Katz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > Sun, 02 Feb 2003 19:00:59 GMT, <LVd%[email protected]>, "Robin
    > Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > >> >Being aggressive when you're the little guy being shoved around
    otherwise is
    > >> >a good thinking in my book.
    > >>
    > >> Anyway, it's not "aggressive" it's "assertive" - a very different prospect.
    > >
    > >I can't disagree but anyone I've spoken to describes it as "aggressive",
    as
    > >in, "why are you so aggressive?" No one has ever described my cycling or personality as
    > >"assertive".
    > >
    > Lift them by their windpipe and while squeezing, tell them to shut up, mind their own business and
    > leave you dafuk alone.
    >
    > That's assertive.
    >
    > Agressive would entail hunting them down.

    Man, if you wuz a gurl I'd propose marriage (or at least a brief union, dependin' no how
    pretty you wuz).

    Robin Hubert
     
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