A stupid question on Forks

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by toomanybikes, Apr 10, 2005.

  1. toomanybikes

    toomanybikes New Member

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    I just bought one of the Titan frames on ebay. It comes without a fork. They are offering a chromed Tange fork which is not threaded.

    I want to build the bike using a Super Record group I have, including a Cinelli XA stem. I have never used this tem with other than a C-Record, Record or Super Record threaded headset.

    I presume I can simply take the Tange fork to the LBS to have it threaded?? Or can I buy a 1 inch headset that is not threaded that will allow use of the Cinelli stem?? If so what headset is recommended?

    Or should I keep shopping for Forks?
     
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  2. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 10:26:14 +1000, toomanybikes
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >I just bought one of the Titan frames on ebay. It comes without a fork.
    >They are offering a chromed Tange fork which is not threaded.
    >
    >I want to build the bike using a Super Record group I have, including a
    >Cinelli XA stem. I have never used this tem with other than a C-Record,
    >Record or Super Record threaded headset.
    >
    >I presume I can simply take the Tange fork to the LBS to have it
    >threaded?? Or can I buy a 1 inch headset that is not threaded that will
    >allow use of the Cinelli stem?? If so what headset is recommended?
    >
    >Or should I keep shopping for Forks?


    Assuming this is a 1"-steerer frame and fork...

    Keep shopping for a fork, or have the tube threaded if you can find a
    shop that will do it, or take a threadless stem of the appropriate
    size and cut the arm off to leave just the clamp and install the
    threadless fork using it (with whatever method of tensioning the clamp
    in place that you want to use) and then remove or leave out the
    starfangled nut and install the quill stem, or use a 25.4mm seat clamp
    (if you can find one) for the same purpose, as was recently revealed
    that Sheldon Brown had similarly done:

    http://sheldonbrown.org/gunnar/index.html

    Look closely at the steerer tube on that.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
  3. someone writes:

    > I just bought one of the Titan frames on eBay. It comes without a
    > fork. They are offering a chromed Tange fork which is not threaded.


    > I want to build the bike using a Super Record group I have,
    > including a Cinelli XA stem. I have never used this them with other
    > than a C-Record, Record or Super Record threaded headset.


    > I presume I can simply take the Tange fork to the LBS to have it
    > threaded?? Or can I buy a 1 inch headset that is not threaded that
    > will allow use of the Cinelli stem?? If so what headset is
    > recommended?


    Ooh, don't do that. Get a stem and threadless head bearing for that
    fork. You'll never regret it.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/threadless-headset.html

    > Or should I keep shopping for Forks?


    At least don't screw up the fork you have. It'll come in handy later
    when you realize you really wanted a threadless steertube.

    [email protected]
     
  4. toomanybikes

    toomanybikes New Member

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    Jobst,

    I confess I have paid NO attention to threadless headsets.

    Can you tell me what you mean by the threadless bearing? I presume I would use a threadless 1 inch headset, so I could use a Campy headset for this. then use a threadless stem ( I will have to find one compatible with my Cinelli Campione del mundo handlebars - no Anatomic Bends) - is the threadlsee bearing a different part of this set up or part of the threadless headset??
     
  5. someone writes:

    > I confess I have paid NO attention to threadless headsets.


    > Can you tell me what you mean by the threadless bearing? I presume
    > I would use a threadless 1 inch headset, so I could use a Campagnolo
    > headset for this. then use a threadless stem ( I will have to find
    > one compatible with my Cinelli Campione del Mundo handlebars - no
    > Anatomic Bends) - is the threadless bearing a different part of this
    > set up or part of the threadless headset??


    If the steertube has no threads then you'll need a threadless bearing
    on the upper end of your fork. You don't need an entire headset if
    you already have one. Threadless headsets don't work with threaded
    forks, there being insufficient steertube length even if the threads
    are ignored. That the upper bearing has no threads is not the main
    feature, but rather that the steer tube is longer and has no threads.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/brandt/threadless-headset.html

    [email protected]
     
  6. toomanybikes <[email protected]> writes:

    >I just bought one of the Titan frames on ebay. It comes without a fork.
    >They are offering a chromed Tange fork which is not threaded.


    >I want to build the bike using a Super Record group I have, including a
    >Cinelli XA stem. I have never used this tem with other than a C-Record,
    >Record or Super Record threaded headset.



    Are you sure you want to use a super record group on a low-end
    columbus chromor frameset ?? i have heard that these frames are kinda
    clunky.

    - Don Gillies
    San Diego, CA
     
  7. toomanybikes wrote:
    > I just bought one of the Titan frames on ebay. It comes without a fork.
    > They are offering a chromed Tange fork which is not threaded.
    >
    > I want to build the bike using a Super Record group I have, including a
    > Cinelli XA stem. I have never used this tem with other than a C-Record,
    > Record or Super Record threaded headset.
    >
    > I presume I can simply take the Tange fork to the LBS to have it
    > threaded?? Or can I buy a 1 inch headset that is not threaded that will
    > allow use of the Cinelli stem?? If so what headset is recommended?
    >
    > Or should I keep shopping for Forks?
    >
    >

    Must have the fork steerer threaded altho most LBS' cannot do this.
    They either lack a sharp enough cutter to cut enough threads and have no
    way to ensure that the threads are parallel to the fork crown seat. have
    a frame builder or machinist that can put the fork on a lathe do this to
    ensure the threads are parallel.
     
  8. Qui si parla Campagnolo surprisingly wrote:

    > Must have the fork steerer threaded altho most LBS' cannot do this.
    > They either lack a sharp enough cutter to cut enough threads and have no
    > way to ensure that the threads are parallel to the fork crown seat. have
    > a frame builder or machinist that can put the fork on a lathe do this to
    > ensure the threads are parallel.


    I've heard of folks using a lathe for this, but no lathe I've ever used
    would do it, I don't see how you could chuck the fork into an ordinary
    lathe.

    Since Peter generally "parla Campagnolo" I'm surprised that he didn't
    mention the Campagnolo piloted fork die. This is the only one I know of
    that has sufficient precision to work reliably, but it does a great job.

    Before getting a threadless fork threaded, check the inside diameter to
    make sure it's a good fit for the stem. The first one I ever did turned
    out to have been made of very thick-walled tubing, and once the bike was
    assembled, I discovered that it was not possible to fit a stem into the
    steerer! Had to take the fork to a machine shop to get the steerer
    machined out.

    Don't even _think_ about threading a fork that doesn't have a steel steerer.

    Sheldon "Campagnolo Is The Best" Brown
    +--------------------------------------------------------+
    | There is no conclusive evidence of life after death. |
    | But there is no evidence of any sort against it. |
    | Soon enough you will know, so why fret about it? |
    | --Robert A. Heinlein |
    +--------------------------------------------------------+
    Harris Cyclery, West Newton, Massachusetts
    Phone 617-244-9772 FAX 617-244-1041
    http://harriscyclery.com
    Hard-to-find parts shipped Worldwide
    http://captainbike.com http://sheldonbrown.com
     
  9. toomanybikes

    toomanybikes New Member

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    Thank you to all. I cannot be satisfied as to the thickness of the steerer tube on the fork the vendor is offering soo I passed on it. However, a friend has just put a Carbon fork on his Colnago and I have magically come into possession of a Chromed steel fork with Colnago cut-outs on the crown.

    Should work fine.
     
  10. "Sheldon Brown" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Qui si parla Campagnolo surprisingly wrote:
    >
    > > Must have the fork steerer threaded altho most LBS' cannot do this.
    > > They either lack a sharp enough cutter to cut enough threads and have no
    > > way to ensure that the threads are parallel to the fork crown seat. have
    > > a frame builder or machinist that can put the fork on a lathe do this to
    > > ensure the threads are parallel.

    >
    > I've heard of folks using a lathe for this, but no lathe I've ever used
    > would do it, I don't see how you could chuck the fork into an ordinary
    > lathe.
    >

    You could chuck the end of the fork steerer into a 1.000" collet (or correct
    dia.) then into the lathe. For the opposite end, you can use a long tail
    stock with a live center. This will go right in-between the fork blades and
    pick up the opposite end of the steerer. Because it's a live center it
    rotates and keeps the fork from moving around as you cuts the threads. I
    would use a dial indicator along the length of the steerer to dial in the
    runout to .001" At the same time you can check parallel to the fork crown
    by using the same dial indicator and spinning the fork very slowly by hand
    and checking reference points on each end of the fork crown. Some machinist
    take a witness cut or what we call a "skim cut" to clean up the area of
    threading, could be anywhere from .0005" to .0015" depending on the runout.
    -tom
     
  11. On 2005-04-11, toomanybikes <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I just bought one of the Titan frames on ebay. It comes without a fork.
    > They are offering a chromed Tange fork which is not threaded.
    >
    > I want to build the bike using a Super Record group I have, including a
    > Cinelli XA stem. I have never used this tem with other than a C-Record,
    > Record or Super Record threaded headset.
    >
    > I presume I can simply take the Tange fork to the LBS to have it
    > threaded?? Or can I buy a 1 inch headset that is not threaded that will
    > allow use of the Cinelli stem?? If so what headset is recommended?
    >
    > Or should I keep shopping for Forks?


    Most shops do not have the equipment to properly thread an unthreaded
    steer tube. The The hand threading dies commonly used to prep frames (e.g.
    Campy, VAR, etc.) are not intnded to cut threads on a bare tube, but
    simply chase threads already there or at most extend the threads on an
    already threaded section.

    You'll want a shop with a lathe to do the job properly.

    --

    John ([email protected])
     
  12. John Thompson writes:

    >> I just bought one of the Titan frames on eBay. It comes without a
    >> fork. They are offering a chromed Tange fork which is not
    >> threaded.


    >> I want to build the bike using a Super Record group I have,
    >> including a Cinelli XA stem. I have never used this stem with
    >> other than a C-Record, Record or Super Record threaded headset.


    >> I presume I can simply take the Tange fork to the LBS to have it
    >> threaded? Or can I buy a 1 inch headset that is not threaded that
    >> will allow use of the Cinelli stem? If so what headset is
    >> recommended?


    >> Or should I keep shopping for Forks?


    > Most shops do not have the equipment to properly thread an
    > unthreaded steer tube. The The hand threading dies commonly used to
    > prep frames (e.g. Campy, VAR, etc.) are not intended to cut threads
    > on a bare tube, but simply chase threads already there or at most
    > extend the threads on an already threaded section.


    That's like the grease that comes on bicycle chains. "It must be
    washed off because it's only a preservative." How to these myths get
    started? What is it about a guided threader that you don't
    understand. Have you ever threaded steel plumbing pipes? Plumbers do
    that regularly on the job, under the house and in the trench. What do
    you see as complicated in using a proper threading tool?

    > You'll want a shop with a lathe to do the job properly.


    ....or do you run a machine shop?

    [email protected]
     
  13. Werehatrack

    Werehatrack Guest

    On Thu, 14 Apr 2005 23:58:29 GMT, [email protected]
    wrote:

    > How to these myths get
    >started?


    Possibly as a result of the use of poorly-made tools in the hands of
    people who don't recognize their shortcomings? I have a 1" die and
    stock out in the shop which is definitely not suitable for cutting
    threads on an unthreaded steerer (as I confirmed on a junk tube first,
    before I had to risk ruining a good one), though with a *good* die and
    stock I would have no trouble doing the job. (As, in fact, I did,
    with a borrowed Campy tool.) The cheap tool's die is improperly
    retained and poorly centered in the stock, and the lead-in tapers on
    the first few lands of thread teeth are not ground to the same levels
    or angles across the various segments, so the die is next to
    impossible to keep square to the tube as it starts to bite. It works
    just fine for *extending* threads, but it's not worth a damn for
    starting. (It's a Hozan, by the way.)

    > What is it about a guided threader that you don't
    >understand. Have you ever threaded steel plumbing pipes? Plumbers do
    >that regularly on the job, under the house and in the trench. What do
    >you see as complicated in using a proper threading tool?


    A good threading tool will do the job in almost any hands, while a
    poor one may not serve well even for the experienced.

    It is sometimes possible to do a job acceptably with substandard
    tools, but not always, and often not as easily as with tools that are
    properly made. Sadly, even some allegedly experienced technicians do
    not always recognize the deficiencies in a poorly-made tool. That's
    much of what keeps businesses like Harbor Freight afloat.
    --
    Typoes are a feature, not a bug.
    Some gardening required to reply via email.
    Words processed in a facility that contains nuts.
     
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