A Way to End the Drug Controversy

[gntlmn]

Here's a proposal that I think would restore faith in the drug free status of Tour de France riders. Simply require everyone to list every type of allowed medication and supplements they are taking. Then require a portion of each blood and urine sample to be kept frozen for a number of years after the Tour.

When testing improves in the future or when new substances come into the public eye, these samples can then be retested and the rider stripped of his honors retroactively if any other substances are found other than the ones on the list he provided.

Comments anyone?

 

[Cam the Ram]

I don't think riders in the Tour are more likely to use drugs than in any other sporting event. I just think riders in the Tour have become guilty of hiding their drug use more! Just because Tour riders get caught, doesn't mean everyone else isn't doing it.

 

[gntlmn]

Originally posted by Cam the Ram
I don't think riders in the Tour are more likely to use drugs than in any other sporting event. I just think riders in the Tour have become guilty of hiding their drug use more! Just because Tour riders get caught, doesn't mean everyone else isn't doing it.

Actually, I disagree with you there. I think that the Tour guys are hiding it less than those in other sports because the testing is more intensive with the Tour than with other sports, especially this year. They are also blood testing, as well as the usual urine testing.

The Tour is the most publicized sporting event in the world. I think the drug controversy is more a function of publicity than fact. It is a problem, but I think it's solvable. What I suggest, and which by the way, they are doing this year to a certain extent, is to preserve the samples. This enables them to look for unknowns at a later date. I don't know how much sample they are saving, but they are saving.

 

[David_Zen]

Does anybody know when and how often the riders are tested?

 

[Weisse Luft]

Samples ARE retained for further testing. The problem is the testing lab has to be specifically looking for a banned substance and in cases of natural hormones like EPO, there is NO accurate testing method, only a infered result of high hematocrit. Altitude training will net a higher hematocrit.

 

[markwill]

The Tour is the most publicized sporting event in the world.

Are you serious? I am new to road biking (not even in to racing) and I am loving the Tour De France on OLN. But it's been amazing how many of my work friends don't even know it's going on right now. Sadly...

I'm guessing you were joking, yes?

Mark

 

[Perro Loco]

Samples ARE retained for further testing. The problem is the testing lab has to be specifically looking for a banned substance and in cases of natural hormones like EPO, there is NO accurate testing method, only a infered result of high hematocrit. Altitude training will net a higher hematocrit.

Recombinant Epo can be distinguished from natural epo for ~ 72 hours after use.

A few facts and speculation
Epo has effects (increased hematocrit) for ~ 3 weeks.
It is only detectable for < 96 hours after last use.
However indirect measuremnts can be suggestive for ~30 days. The tour (and Giro) is now using these parameters
http://www.cyclingnews.com/news.php?id=news/2004/jun04/jun29news
basicly-Stimulation Index = hemaglobin (in g/L) - 60 x square root of reticulocytes (in %). The limit is 133.
It's main problem is people at recent altitude may have a false positive.

This formula has been available for a couple of years and I suspect the UCI/Tour has kept its' eye on riders whose counts looked suspicious or whose hematocrit rose during a 3 wee race ala Rumsas(it actualy declines for several reasons) and targets them for more frequent testing and or passes the info along to authorities.

The UCI has stated samples will be kept and GH tested for retroactively.
Interestingly urine samples from the 98 TDF where tested for retrospectively for epo and 14% came back positive
Lasane and Ceaurriz Nature 2000

 

[gntlmn]

Are you serious? I am new to road biking (not even in to racing) and I am loving the Tour De France on OLN. But it's been amazing how many of my work friends don't even know it's going on right now. Sadly...

I'm guessing you were joking, yes?

Mark

No joke. But Americans are still lagging. Many still don't know what it is.

 

[gntlmn]

The UCI has stated samples will be kept and GH tested for retroactively.
Interestingly urine samples from the 98 TDF where tested for retrospectively for epo and 14% came back positive
Lasane and Ceaurriz Nature 2000

I wonder who? Pantani?

 

[markwill]

No joke. But Americans are still lagging. Many still don't know what it is.

Not to belabour the point but I gotta believe that the World Cup, European Championship and Olympics leave the Tour De France in their dust Whether in America or otherwise.

Mark

 

[Perro Loco]

I wonder who? Pantani?

I often wonder this myself and have never seen mention of this.
I am sure Jean Marie or the UCI know who was positive.
In the US samples would have to kept annymous when used for research, but in France I don't know and have my doubts.

 

[flysolo1]

who cares what they use i still would not be able to climb and ride like those guy if i injected the entire pharmacy

leave the riders alone

 

[DeRosa_AV]

who cares what they use i still would not be able to climb and ride like those guy if i injected the entire pharmacy

leave the riders alone

That might be so but they are still cheats.

 

[mingcat9]

No joke. But Americans are still lagging. Many still don't know what it is.

I have talked to my friends in high school, and mentioned lance armtrong, and then said, "you do know who he is, right?" and a couple times the reply was, "yeah, he landed on the moon, right?"

of course these were the average kids, not the ones that have a 3.8 gpa and watch the news (like myself). but still, it worries me. America is supposed to be such a wonderful country (though it is), it seems 90% of the population think that cyclists are insane and european-ized and therefore unpatriotic, so they must try to side-swipe every cyclist they catch.

for instance, on the metro detroit station Local 4, the best of local stations, their sportscaster mentioned the tour de france and all the recent crashes and suggested that some cyclists need to be equiped with training wheels...he said it only half joking.

The media hypes all the doping in the olympics and it seems odd that the media treats athletics this way when, they too are losing their credibility because of reporters in major newspapers making up stories.

 

[gntlmn]

Not to belabour the point but I gotta believe that the World Cup, European Championship and Olympics leave the Tour De France in their dust Whether in America or otherwise.

Mark

I guess it's pretty hard to imagine the crowds unless you're standing by the roadside. That and the numbers of media make it arguably the biggest sporting event, but I suppose this is debatable. If you do a google search of "tour de france", you come up with less matches than you would for "olympics", but how many sports are involved with olympics? If you try soccer, you get way more, but how many events are we talking about there? Quite a few more than one a year. So that would need to be divided too. The same with NBA or NFL.

So I could stand here and defend this claim, but I think it is only arguably the biggest; it's still debatable. I have never actually been there to the Tour in person, but the cyclists say that it certainly dwarfs everything else they have ever competed in, and certainly dwarfs the olympic cycling events. By the way, Lance Armstrong has chosen to skip the Olympics this year but ride in the Tour de France.

 

[gntlmn]

who cares what they use i still would not be able to climb and ride like those guy if i injected the entire pharmacy

leave the riders alone

It's pretty hard to measure the effects of performance enhancing drugs on a rider's performance given that it would at least result in suspension for athletes to use them in sporting events. So who knows how much it helps, but I have a feeling EPO can make a big difference in cycling. It also can result in death if used to excess.

That's the main reason I like to see the continued testing and zero tolerance for drugs. It's too easy to overdo them once they accept them.

The performance enhancing effects probably depend on the athlete. Maybe with some it makes a big difference, and with others, maybe not much. It seems that Virenque is still a great climber even though he is no longer doping. I bet he himself is relieved that that is the case. Ben Johnson, on the other hand, never returned to the form he was in the 1988 Olympics, when he was stripped of the gold medal in the 100 meter dash for testing positive for steroids.

 

[DeRosa_AV]

The TDF is the biggest 'annual' sporting event. I think the world cup and olympics are bigger but they only come around every 4 years.

 

[markwill]

I guess it's pretty hard to imagine the crowds unless you're standing by the roadside.

Ah ha - we're perhaps talking on cross purposes. The original statement was:

"The Tour is the most publicized sporting event in the world."

I took this to be a reference to be the degree to which the event is "marketed", TV viewership, etc, etc. It seems you are focused on how large the crowds are at the various events. I have no way of knowing which is largest but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the total number for any one stage was huge, simply because it's very long So, yes, by your definition I'd accept your points (although I think that's different to the degree to which an event is "publicized").

Thanks.

Mark

 

[gntlmn]

Ah ha - we're perhaps talking on cross purposes. The original statement was:

"The Tour is the most publicized sporting event in the world."

I took this to be a reference to be the degree to which the event is "marketed", TV viewership, etc, etc. It seems you are focused on how large the crowds are at the various events. I have no way of knowing which is largest but I wouldn't be at all surprised if the total number for any one stage was huge, simply because it's very long So, yes, by your definition I'd accept your points (although I think that's different to the degree to which an event is "publicized").

Thanks.

Mark

Actually when these news people brag about the popularity of the Tour, they add the live spectators to the TV spectators. They say that the combined total and the number of various news agencies covering the event dwarfs the other athletic competitions. Remember this is one race held over a period of about 3 weeks, each day adding to the total.

 

[limerickman]

I think the suggestion of taking samples is a step in the right direction but I think there needs to be a concerted attack on the use of drugs in cycling.
Paula Radcliffe and Ian Thorpe have both given blood samples to the running and swimming authorities respectively and have told their governing bodies that they can retain those samples indefinitely.
They have done this so as to prove that not only are they not taking drugs but to also prove that, at any point in the future, the authorities can test for substances which they cannot test for at present.
I think that a similar approach needs to be taken in cycling.
I would also advocate the instant dismissal of Hein Verbruggen and the UCI.
This delusional organization have singularly failed to stop the drug epidemic in our sport.
I would go so far as to suggest that Verbruggen has deliberately allowed the drugs issue to go unchecked – so he needs to be dismissed.

Legislation needs to be enacted whereby all new professionals be required to give samples as outlined above, perhaps twice per year.
Legislation needs to be enacted that if a cyclist is caught with drugs that he is banned FOR LIFE WITH NO REPRIEVE, following a thorough due process and that his record as a professional be scrubbed for ever.
Legislation also needs to be enacted so that any prize money won by a cyclist in his entire career, who has subsequently been found to have taken drugs, require him to repay that prize money on being found guilty of doping.

This draconian legislation would, in my opinion, clean up this sport and make it credible.