A Week to Go

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Gonzalez, Dec 15, 2003.

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  1. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic of China.

    Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?
     
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  2. Ian

    Ian Guest

    Gonzalez scribed with passion and wit:

    > This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
    > of China.
    >
    > Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

    Stick your elbows out. And have a good time.

    --
    Ian

    http://www.catrike.co.uk
     
  3. Elyob

    Elyob Guest

    "Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
    > of China.
    >
    > Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

    http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8143038%255E663,00.html

    Hmmm ... not so 'greatest' anymore?

    SHANGHAI -- China's biggest city is tackling its chronic traffic congestion -- by banning bikes.

    As well as banning bikes from all major roads next year, police will also raise fines tenfold for
    cycling violations such as running red lights. Once hailed as the perfect form of proletarian
    transport, the bicycle reigned in China.

    But Shanghai has become a centre of China's new car industry, and growing affluence has created a
    surge in car ownership.

    Police blame bicycles for causing traffic problems by occupying vehicle lanes.
     
  4. Nige

    Nige Guest

    Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
    > of China.
    >
    > Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?

    Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
    cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most courteous
    people. I'd go back in a heartbeat.

    N
     
  5. \ Dave

    \ Dave Guest

    "elyob" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic of
    > > China.
    > >
    > > Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?
    >
    >
    http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8143038%255E663,00 .html
    >
    > Hmmm ... not so 'greatest' anymore?
    >
    > SHANGHAI -- China's biggest city is tackling its chronic traffic congestion -- by banning bikes.
    >
    > As well as banning bikes from all major roads next year, police will also raise fines tenfold for
    > cycling violations such as running red lights. Once hailed as the perfect form of proletarian
    > transport, the bicycle reigned in China.
    >
    > But Shanghai has become a centre of China's new car industry, and growing affluence has created a
    > surge in car ownership.
    >
    > Police blame bicycles for causing traffic problems by occupying vehicle lanes.
    >
    Ah, following the West's example (that's West vs. East, rather than Fred and his missus!!) Still, at
    least the added pollution will hit fertility rates and the urge to have the latest mdg will over-
    rule the need to procreate and hopefully their population-growth will slow down a little. A silver
    lining to every big dirty cloud of noxious fumes ;-) Dave.
     
  6. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    On 15 Dec 2003 06:02:33 -0800, [email protected] (Nige)
    wrote:

    >Gonzalez <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:<[email protected]>...
    >> This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
    >> of China.
    >>
    >> Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?
    >
    >Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
    >cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most
    >courteous people. I'd go back in a heartbeat.

    Shanghai and Hainan. My brother has lived in Shanghai for the last 12 years, his wife's parents live
    in Hainan, so we're going there for 3 days after Christmas. Christmas isn't a big thing in China, so
    it's probably the best time to escape from the mayhem in Christian countries.

    I've been to China twice before and have found the Chinese to be the most discourteous and rude of
    people. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but generally I don't appreciate the spitting and
    name calling which seems almost relentless.
     
  7. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 12:17:43 GMT, "elyob" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Gonzalez" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >> This time next week I'll be in the World's greatest cycling nation: The People's Republic
    >> of China.
    >>
    >> Does anyone have any advice on competing with 1,300,000 other cyclists for road space?
    >
    >http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,8143038%255E663,00.html
    >
    >Hmmm ... not so 'greatest' anymore?
    >
    >SHANGHAI -- China's biggest city is tackling its chronic traffic congestion -- by banning bikes.
    >
    >As well as banning bikes from all major roads next year, police will also raise fines tenfold for
    >cycling violations such as running red lights. Once hailed as the perfect form of proletarian
    >transport, the bicycle reigned in China.

    In Bejing I remember the coach driving down a brand new motorway - three lanes each way. There was a
    donkey pulling a cart coming the other way - in the fast lane.

    A 6 lane ring road was completed around Shanghai about 6 years ago, and a new 8 lane outer ring road
    has only recently been completed. There are also several elevated highways crisscrossing the city. I
    suspect it is from these roads where the police plan to ban cycles.

    http://www.autumnleaves.com.cn/shanghai/map/map-brief.htm

    >But Shanghai has become a centre of China's new car industry, and growing affluence has created a
    >surge in car ownership.
    >
    >Police blame bicycles for causing traffic problems by occupying vehicle lanes.

    My brother is a property consultant and will be completely up to date on the current traffic
    planning policy. I'll report back next year.

    On a brighter note, I will be travelling from Pudong International Airport on the new 430 KPH
    maglev. A long way round to the city centre, but is has to be done.

    http://home.wangjianshuo.com/archives/20031105_pvg_closer_look_at_maglev.htm
     
  8. Nige wrote:

    > Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
    > cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most
    > courteous people.

    They'll bet on anything though!
     
  9. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Gonzalez wrote:
    >
    > Shanghai and Hainan. My brother has lived in Shanghai for the last 12 years, his wife's parents
    > live in Hainan, so we're going there for 3 days after Christmas. Christmas isn't a big thing in
    > China, so it's probably the best time to escape from the mayhem in Christian countries.
    >

    I went to an event in mid July in Shanghai at which a brass band welcomed everyone with a medoly
    of Carols.

    > I've been to China twice before and have found the Chinese to be the most discourteous and rude of
    > people. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but generally I don't appreciate the spitting
    > and name calling which seems almost relentless.

    Not my experience at all. I've always found them very helpful, friendly and enthusiastic although
    negotiating in business with them is another story.

    Tony
     
  10. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Gonzalez wrote:
    >
    > In Bejing I remember the coach driving down a brand new motorway - three lanes each way. There was
    > a donkey pulling a cart coming the other way - in the fast lane.
    >

    When I first went to Beijing in 1982 there were people camped out and cooking meals right on the
    edge of the runway as we landed.

    Shanghai airport was just a wooden hut at the time. Many of the old buildings have now gone but the
    Bund looks the same although the view across the river has changed beyond recognition.

    Tony
     
  11. JohnB

    JohnB Guest

    Gonzalez wrote:

    >
    > I've been to China twice before and have found the Chinese to be the most discourteous and rude of
    > people. Of course there are plenty of exceptions, but generally I don't appreciate the spitting
    > and name calling which seems almost relentless.

    So with the bike bans they'll fit in nicely on uk(?).tosspot.

    John B
     
  12. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 20:47:19 +0000, Zog The Undeniable <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >Nige wrote:
    >
    >> Where about are you going? I lived in Dalian, North East China for 18 months. It was excellent. I
    >> cycled a lot for fun. Once you come to terms with their culture, I found them to be a most
    >> courteous people.
    >
    >They'll bet on anything though!

    Rumours are that they placed bets on which of the twin towers would be the first to topple.
     
  13. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 17:40:26 -0000, "Tony Raven"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Not my experience at all. I've always found them very helpful, friendly and enthusiastic although
    >negotiating in business with them is another story.

    On my first visit to China I travelled from Shanghai to Kashgar (and back), via many of the great
    cities along the Silk Road, including Xi'an and Turpan. Buying a train ticket in Xi'an was an
    absolute nightmare, it seemed that there was no available ticket out of Xi'an to anywhere for the
    next 500 years, and that they didn't sell tickets more than 500 years in advance. The only way I
    managed to buy a ticket was by saying that if I couldn't buy a ticket I'd have to marry the ticket
    officer as I'd need a wife as I was doomed to stay in Xi'an until the end of my life. This caused
    such a stir in the rabble behind me (which was the chinese excuse for a queue) that the Station
    Master had to fight his was through the melee to sort out the situation.

    On my second trip I flew from Shanghai to Chengdu then drifted lazily down the Yangtzee, through
    Chongqing and Wuhan (via the Three Gorges now a reservoir), back to Shanghai on a local passenger
    ferry. I counted a grand total of 8 dead and bloated bodies floating down the river. Then I flew to
    Bejing, and crashed a cycle rickshaw on my last night before flying home.

    The country is lovely, but I'm afraid to say that I've found the people, in general, to be
    uninterested and rude. It seems that racism is government policy. White people have to pay double or
    more for most tourist attractions, this was also true for buying train tickets and aeroplane
    tickets, but I understand this has since changed. In other words, it was the patriotic duty of every
    Chinese citizen to screw as much money out of the foreign devils as possible. Indeed, it is only in
    recent years that in the word for minority groups and foreigners, the character for dog has been
    replaced with the character for person.
     
  14. Elyob

    Elyob Guest

    "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Gonzalez wrote:
    > >
    > > In Bejing I remember the coach driving down a brand new motorway - three lanes each way. There
    > > was a donkey pulling a cart coming the other way - in the fast lane.
    > >
    >
    > When I first went to Beijing in 1982 there were people camped out and
    cooking
    > meals right on the edge of the runway as we landed.
    >
    > Shanghai airport was just a wooden hut at the time. Many of the old
    buildings
    > have now gone but the Bund looks the same although the view across the
    river
    > has changed beyond recognition.
    >
    > Tony

    I want to go to China .. and get on a SMT ...
     
  15. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Gonzalez wrote:
    >
    > On my first visit to China I travelled from Shanghai to Kashgar (and back), via many of the great
    > cities along the Silk Road, including Xi'an and Turpan. Buying a train ticket in Xi'an was an
    > absolute nightmare, it seemed that there was no available ticket out of Xi'an to anywhere for the
    > next 500 years, and that they didn't sell tickets more than 500 years in advance. The only way I
    > managed to buy a ticket was by saying that if I couldn't buy a ticket I'd have to marry the ticket
    > officer as I'd need a wife as I was doomed to stay in Xi'an until the end of my life. This caused
    > such a stir in the rabble behind me (which was the chinese excuse for a queue) that the Station
    > Master had to fight his was through the melee to sort out the situation.
    >

    You are going to a country with different values and culture. Don't expect them to conform their
    system to what you expect. The pleasure in travel is experiencing these differences and "going with
    the flow". What does it matter that they don't form an orderly queue? That's just the way they do
    things Watch how they do things, learn and try it yourself. It amazing how helpful and friendly
    people can be when you try to understand and go with their culture but I can quite understand them
    getting rude and upset if you try and force them to behave to you cultural standards. Why should
    they? Its their country after all.

    Tony
     
  16. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:23:09 -0000, "Tony Raven"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >You are going to a country with different values and culture. Don't expect them to conform their
    >system to what you expect. The pleasure in travel is experiencing these differences and "going with
    >the flow". What does it matter that they don't form an orderly queue? That's just the way they do
    >things Watch how they do things, learn and try it yourself. It amazing how helpful and friendly
    >people can be when you try to understand and go with their culture but I can quite understand them
    >getting rude and upset if you try and force them to behave to you cultural standards. Why should
    >they? Its their country after all.

    Indeed.

    I consider myself to be a well seasoned traveller, having travelled extensively in India, Russia,
    North Africa and China.

    In order of friendliness India comes top of the list by some way, North Africa a poor second,
    followed by Russia then China.

    Of course it's always nice when you get to know individual people and find people to be particularly
    helpful. It's just that in China those helpful people are fewer and further apart and it takes
    longer to gain their trust.

    I certainly do not expect people to conform to my cultural standards, but it would be nice to be
    treated with standard slightly above utter contempt by more than just a few Chinese.
     
  17. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    elyob wrote:
    >
    > I want to go to China .. and get on a SMT ...

    SMT?

    Tony
     
  18. "Tony Raven" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > elyob wrote:
    > >
    > > I want to go to China .. and get on a SMT ...
    >
    > SMT?

    Shanghai Maglev Train

    Wake up at the back there, Raven ;-)
    ___
    Michael MacClancy
     
  19. Tony Raven

    Tony Raven Guest

    Michael MacClancy wrote:
    >
    > Wake up at the back there, Raven ;-)
    >

    W...w...w....what? Who me sir?

    Tony
     
  20. Gonzalez

    Gonzalez Guest

    On Mon, 15 Dec 2003 19:59:57 -0000, "Tony Raven"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Shanghai airport was just a wooden hut at the time. Many of the old buildings have now gone but the
    >Bund looks the same although the view across the river has changed beyond recognition.

    My brother bought a newly built house in the Pudong Special Economic Zone 5 years ago. He sold it
    last year for 5 times the price he paid.
     
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