P
Paul Murphy
Guest
"David Hansen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:37:59 -0000 someone who may be "Paul Murphy"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>> I am perfectly sure. One of these countries is England.
>>
>>I think not by the definition of vast majority I have in mind - I estimate
>>over 90 %. Now you could claim that countrywide this may be the case but
>>I'm
>>certain that on the lines I travel on in the South East it's not.
>
> You sit up at 2am to count the freight trains in order to make your
> assertion?
If you live just across the street from a main railway line (as I used to)
and forget to close the window, thats just about right
> Most of South East England used to have bans on freight trains
> during peak hours. However, IIRC this was unacceptable under the
> provisions of the Tories' Railways Act and was discontinued.
>
>>> I suggest that you don't know much about JIT.
>>
>>Because?
>
> Because part of the essence of JIT is that materials arrive as they
> are needed, they are not held up, perhaps for 18 hours, for the
> convenience of the transport operator.
But it's not for the convenience of the transport operator, it's for the
convenience in the long run of the general train using public. If the
company changed their production schedule, they could save money and thats
convenient to them. If its a manufacturing environment where the product
lines change often and unpredictably due to customer/distributor demand and
demand for supplies is difficult to predict then they either pay the premium
for day time rail freight, work around the night time transit delays or use
another method.
>>> Presumably the cement company specify when they wish to start
>>> unloading the train. Having an extra train in the circuit so one
>>> could stand in a siding until that time would push the cost up and
>>> mean that the business was transferred to the roads, where the
>>> lorries would not improve the situation faced by cyclists.
>>
>>You're missing the point that the company where the cement was going to
>>could change their schedule to take advantage of cheaper night transport
>>rates in the long term.
>
> Do you think that would outweigh the costs to the business, for
> example paying staff to work permanent nights?
I'd imagine the sorts of companies who'd like to take advantage of rail
freight would already do that anyway (or are at least geared up for such
possibilities at periods of high demand). We're talking heavy industry not
the average 9 - 5.30 shop.
> You are also assuming that the railways have a monopoly in the
> movement of bulk cement. They don't. Unless you are proposing lorry
> operators also pay time based access charges all your proposal is
> likely to do is get the business shifted onto the roads, where the
> extra lorry movements are unlikely to be good for cyclists. I have
> made this point more than once and it has yet to have a satisfactory
> reply.
As far as HGVs on UK roads go, I think we are in agreement that fewer of
them would make things easier for us cyclists. Nothing in what I've written
would make rail freight less competitive, it'd just force
manufacturers/users of rail freight to consider their priorities.
>>No I was told Germany (although in fairness I don't know what part). I was
>>curious what was in the very secure looking train (which looked like the
>>wagons had to be uncoupled to open them up) so I asked one of the local
>>station staff. No the train didn't contain bikes and this doesn't relate
>>to
>>bikes anymore so I fear this is off topic. It still, meant that the
>>continent was getting priority for goods trains travelling at night and we
>>were stuck with it's journey during day light hours.
>
> There is a television station for German railways, Bahn TV on one of
> the satellites, this puts on cab ride videos overnight. I sometimes
> wind through them at high speed and there are plenty of freight
> trains operating in Germany in daylight hours.
Maybe they're the ones that have come from over 22 hrs away where that cant
be avoided. Id's still feel better if I knew the train I mentioned (which
I've seen on a few occassions now - assuming similar time and train layout
means its the same train) started it's journey at night in the UK.
Paul
news:[email protected]...
> On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 07:37:59 -0000 someone who may be "Paul Murphy"
> <[email protected]> wrote this:-
>
>>> I am perfectly sure. One of these countries is England.
>>
>>I think not by the definition of vast majority I have in mind - I estimate
>>over 90 %. Now you could claim that countrywide this may be the case but
>>I'm
>>certain that on the lines I travel on in the South East it's not.
>
> You sit up at 2am to count the freight trains in order to make your
> assertion?
If you live just across the street from a main railway line (as I used to)
and forget to close the window, thats just about right
> Most of South East England used to have bans on freight trains
> during peak hours. However, IIRC this was unacceptable under the
> provisions of the Tories' Railways Act and was discontinued.
>
>>> I suggest that you don't know much about JIT.
>>
>>Because?
>
> Because part of the essence of JIT is that materials arrive as they
> are needed, they are not held up, perhaps for 18 hours, for the
> convenience of the transport operator.
But it's not for the convenience of the transport operator, it's for the
convenience in the long run of the general train using public. If the
company changed their production schedule, they could save money and thats
convenient to them. If its a manufacturing environment where the product
lines change often and unpredictably due to customer/distributor demand and
demand for supplies is difficult to predict then they either pay the premium
for day time rail freight, work around the night time transit delays or use
another method.
>>> Presumably the cement company specify when they wish to start
>>> unloading the train. Having an extra train in the circuit so one
>>> could stand in a siding until that time would push the cost up and
>>> mean that the business was transferred to the roads, where the
>>> lorries would not improve the situation faced by cyclists.
>>
>>You're missing the point that the company where the cement was going to
>>could change their schedule to take advantage of cheaper night transport
>>rates in the long term.
>
> Do you think that would outweigh the costs to the business, for
> example paying staff to work permanent nights?
I'd imagine the sorts of companies who'd like to take advantage of rail
freight would already do that anyway (or are at least geared up for such
possibilities at periods of high demand). We're talking heavy industry not
the average 9 - 5.30 shop.
> You are also assuming that the railways have a monopoly in the
> movement of bulk cement. They don't. Unless you are proposing lorry
> operators also pay time based access charges all your proposal is
> likely to do is get the business shifted onto the roads, where the
> extra lorry movements are unlikely to be good for cyclists. I have
> made this point more than once and it has yet to have a satisfactory
> reply.
As far as HGVs on UK roads go, I think we are in agreement that fewer of
them would make things easier for us cyclists. Nothing in what I've written
would make rail freight less competitive, it'd just force
manufacturers/users of rail freight to consider their priorities.
>>No I was told Germany (although in fairness I don't know what part). I was
>>curious what was in the very secure looking train (which looked like the
>>wagons had to be uncoupled to open them up) so I asked one of the local
>>station staff. No the train didn't contain bikes and this doesn't relate
>>to
>>bikes anymore so I fear this is off topic. It still, meant that the
>>continent was getting priority for goods trains travelling at night and we
>>were stuck with it's journey during day light hours.
>
> There is a television station for German railways, Bahn TV on one of
> the satellites, this puts on cab ride videos overnight. I sometimes
> wind through them at high speed and there are plenty of freight
> trains operating in Germany in daylight hours.
Maybe they're the ones that have come from over 22 hrs away where that cant
be avoided. Id's still feel better if I knew the train I mentioned (which
I've seen on a few occassions now - assuming similar time and train layout
means its the same train) started it's journey at night in the UK.
Paul