additional praise on Merckx



vspa

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i was thinking the other day, after the worlds in Mendrisio, about Merckx astonishing 1-day races and classics palmares for example... everybody said Cancellera was the strongest and that cost him the race, everybody racing against him (something you cannot do in many other sports: tennis - swimming - motorsports - skiing - athletics - golf - others)

Merckx wheel was the most sought after and he still won almost every main event several times !
 

oldbobcat

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How true. But one reason for winning almost every major more than once was that Merckx started (and finished) every major more than once. He was always marked, sometimes beaten, but always a factor. For whatever reasons you choose, the same can't be said for today's champions.
 

roadhouse

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oldbobcat said:
How true. But one reason for winning almost every major more than once was that Merckx started (and finished) every major more than once. He was always marked, sometimes beaten, but always a factor. For whatever reasons you choose, the same can't be said for today's champions.

very true.
 

slovakguy

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oldbobcat said:
How true. But one reason for winning almost every major more than once was that Merckx started (and finished) every major more than once. He was always marked, sometimes beaten, but always a factor. For whatever reasons you choose, the same can't be said for today's champions.

not to put too fine a point on it, but you've brought the matter just to it. we have to admit the difference between being the winner of a race and that of the champion rider. while i'm sure e.m. did his fair share of strategic planning, when it came down to it, his strategy always tended toward burning his rivals right off his wheel.
 

limerickman

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Merckx was always the marked man in every single race.
From February to October, EM raced practically every race in the season.
So he would have been marked throughout.

But to counterbalance this, EM also had the strongest team in the peloton at that time.
This is not to take away from his palmares : the man was a machine.
The greatest machine ever.
 

swampy1970

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Great rider.

But it's time for a dig... How would poulidor have phrased it?

"3 Positive dope tests should have banned Eddy Merckx to start any TDF! :D"
 

Faustino

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swampy1970 said:
Great rider.

But it's time for a dig... How would poulidor have phrased it?

"3 Positive dope tests should have banned Eddy Merckx to start any TDF! :D"

Evening all. Can you give me any details about EM failing dope tests?
 

classic1

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Faustino said:
Evening all. Can you give me any details about EM failing dope tests?

1969 Giro

One in the mid 70's where the UCI or Belgian federation 'snuck' a substance onto the register - Maertens and Pollentier were also caught with it IIRC.

Can't remember what the third was.
 

swampy1970

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classic1 said:
1969 Giro

One in the mid 70's where the UCI or Belgian federation 'snuck' a substance onto the register - Maertens and Pollentier were also caught with it IIRC.

Can't remember what the third was.

He was first nabbed for the stimulant Reactivan during the 1969 Giro d'Italia just before his first Tour win. He was booted out of the Giro and allowed to start the Tour shortly thereafter. Ironically, he almost wasn't allowed to start the Tour that year due to 'irregularities' in his heart rate - possible arrhythmia. Well, duh!

In 73 he was found to have taken Mucantil and barred from starting the Tour.

In 77 he tested positive for the amphetamine, pemoline, along with Maertens and Pollentier. Zoetemelk also tested positive for pemoline in 77. Thevenet would win the Tour taking Cortisone. Thevenet would remain a national hero despite a public admission of this, yet 22 years later a certain American would have trace amounts of cortico-steroids in his system (not enough for a positive) but would be publicly sh1t on from a great height. Vive la France! I guess the "equality" was forgotten from the French liberty equality and fraternity.

On a "This is Spinal Tap" note Pollentier was back in 78 trying to cheat dope controls by having a rubber bulb in his shorts with someone elses **** in it. Irony would provide the last laugh - his urine tested negative. Spinal Tap would come back for a repeat performance a couple of years later when Sean Kelly pulled a similar stunt using his mechanics pee. Unknown to Kelly, his overworked mechanic was strung out on stuff and Kelly would too test positive.
 

poulidor

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swampy1970 said:
In 77 he tested positive for the amphetamine, pemoline, along with Maertens and Pollentier. Zoetemelk also tested positive for pemoline in 77. Thevenet would win the Tour taking Cortisone. Thevenet would remain a national hero despite a public admission of this, yet 22 years later a certain American would have trace amounts of cortico-steroids in his system (not enough for a positive) but would be publicly sh1t on from a great height. Vive la France! I guess the "equality" was forgotten from the French liberty equality and fraternity.
You can compare an admission of drug use and the stupid lies of Armstrong, that is the bid difference: Armstrong denied it despite a positive test and amount of circumtances not in his favor, don't forget we were just after Festina, and his INCREDIBLE change in performance raised a lot of question, only IDIOT would not guess the use of EPO.
So that is not 2 equal cases.

Armstrong was positive, the threshold was broken, if not why did he need a backdated TUE to clear a negative test? Why did he need to pay a $500.000 bribes to UCI, or more likely Verbruggen?
 

classic1

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swampy1970 said:
He was first nabbed for the stimulant Reactivan during the 1969 Giro d'Italia just before his first Tour win. He was booted out of the Giro and allowed to start the Tour shortly thereafter. Ironically, he almost wasn't allowed to start the Tour that year due to 'irregularities' in his heart rate - possible arrhythmia. Well, duh!

In 73 he was found to have taken Mucantil and barred from starting the Tour.

In 77 he tested positive for the amphetamine, pemoline, along with Maertens and Pollentier. Zoetemelk also tested positive for pemoline in 77..


Good work swampy. Are you sure about the banning from the start of the Tour though? 73 was the year of his Vuelta/Giro double. I have a vague recollection that the positive may have been from a Tour of Lombardy. Might have to check, '72 or '73......


Thevenet would win the Tour taking Cortisone. Thevenet would remain a national hero despite a public admission of this, yet 22 years later a certain American would have trace amounts of cortico-steroids in his system (not enough for a positive) but would be publicly sh1t on from a great height. Vive la France! I guess the "equality" was forgotten from the French liberty equality and fraternity.

Ghey.

Fanboy.

:D
 

Faustino

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swampy1970 said:
He was first nabbed for the stimulant Reactivan during the 1969 Giro d'Italia just before his first Tour win. He was booted out of the Giro and allowed to start the Tour shortly thereafter. Ironically, he almost wasn't allowed to start the Tour that year due to 'irregularities' in his heart rate - possible arrhythmia. Well, duh!

In 73 he was found to have taken Mucantil and barred from starting the Tour.

In 77 he tested positive for the amphetamine, pemoline, along with Maertens and Pollentier. Zoetemelk also tested positive for pemoline in 77. Thevenet would win the Tour taking Cortisone. Thevenet would remain a national hero despite a public admission of this, yet 22 years later a certain American would have trace amounts of cortico-steroids in his system (not enough for a positive) but would be publicly sh1t on from a great height. Vive la France! I guess the "equality" was forgotten from the French liberty equality and fraternity.

On a "This is Spinal Tap" note Pollentier was back in 78 trying to cheat dope controls by having a rubber bulb in his shorts with someone elses **** in it. Irony would provide the last laugh - his urine tested negative. Spinal Tap would come back for a repeat performance a couple of years later when Sean Kelly pulled a similar stunt using his mechanics pee. Unknown to Kelly, his overworked mechanic was strung out on stuff and Kelly would too test positive.

Many thanks, very interesting. I forgot to introduce myself- I've been lurking on here a while but have decided to get involved. Look forward to chatting to you all.
 

swampy1970

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poulidor said:
You can compare an admission of drug use and the stupid lies of Armstrong, that is the bid difference: Armstrong denied it despite a positive test and amount of circumtances not in his favor, don't forget we were just after Festina, and his INCREDIBLE change in performance raised a lot of question, only IDIOT would not guess the use of EPO.
So that is not 2 equal cases.

An admission of drug use? No one admitted to it - Merckx was busted. **** in the cup please Mr Merckx... Oh dear, you seem to have been taking some go juice. Go to the back of the class and wear your big pointy hat with the big D for Dopage on it. Come back when we tell you that you can race again - which in those days was pretty much the next event you wanted too...

As for Armstrong - a guess is a guess...
 

swampy1970

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classic1 said:
Good work swampy. Are you sure about the banning from the start of the Tour though? 73 was the year of his Vuelta/Giro double. I have a vague recollection that the positive may have been from a Tour of Lombardy. Might have to check, '72 or '73......




Ghey.

Fanboy.

:D

I'm 'somewhat' sure about '73... It could have been he was just asked not to start...

... as for the fanboy jibe what can I say? Anyone who rips the pedals off the cranks is worth watching. Sure it takes the edge off the memories when it comes out later on that they're on the juice but bar just a couple of riders pretty much everyone that I watched back in the 80s and 90s has either been found to have been taking stuff, admitted too it or has the spectre or 'amazing performances out of the blue' hanging over their heads...

But for most on this particular stain of a sub-forum, if we're going to take this 'Holier than thou' stance on the matter rip all the names of those who were caught or later impicated out of the record books and things will look pretty bleak - Anquetil, Merckx, Maertens, Zoetemelk, Thevnet, Demeyer, Simpson, Pollentier Kelly, Roche, Rooks, Thuinesse, Delgado, Fignon, Moser, Pantani, Chiapucci, Armstrong, Van der Poel, Riis, Virenque, Sosenka, Hegg, Basso, Ullrich... That takes care of a few world records and the odd Tour or two. ;)
 

vspa

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is funny how 80% of the threads in this subforum finish up in doping discussions
 

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