ADRENALINE: Recumbent bike rider is never going back ‘to an upright bike’ (La Crosse Tribune)



[email protected] wrote:
> It’s gone now. And Ed West says it’s never coming back.
>


Good for Ed.
----
The bike I have on order is an upright however, and the next bike will
probably be an upright too.

Recumbents are great for recreational and long-distance riding, but I
have come to the realization that they aren't the best for motorization,
and aren't a real good choice for utility use either.
~
 
DougC wrote:
:: The bike I have on order is an upright however, and the next bike
:: will probably be an upright too.
::
:: Recumbents are great for recreational and long-distance riding, but I
:: have come to the realization that they aren't the best for
:: motorization,

What does that mean?

::and aren't a real good choice for utility use either

What?
 
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Wed, 23 May 2007 01:27:34 -0400
Roger Zoul <[email protected]> wrote:
> DougC wrote:
>:: The bike I have on order is an upright however, and the next bike
>:: will probably be an upright too.
>::
>:: Recumbents are great for recreational and long-distance riding, but I
>:: have come to the realization that they aren't the best for
>:: motorization,
>
> What does that mean?


I think it means putting an auxilliary motor on. Not sure why they
aren't good for that, possibly a "where do I put it, the front
downtube is such a nice spot" problem.
>
>::and aren't a real good choice for utility use either
>


I was thinking about this. Bents don't really take to extensions for
big loads, like an xtracycle or a large front basket, or those Dutch
things which take a couple of kids on the front.

They are harder to frig with more or less. If you took the bent you
own and wanted to modify it to take big wide loads, how would you do
it? With an upright you add an xtracycle, with a bent?

Zebee
 
Roger Zoul wrote:
> DougC wrote:
> :: The bike I have on order is an upright however, and the next bike
> :: will probably be an upright too.
> ::
> :: Recumbents are great for recreational and long-distance riding, but I
> :: have come to the realization that they aren't the best for
> :: motorization,
>
> What does that mean?
>


"Motorization" means "adding a motor".
Even if you only ever use it on-road, adding a motor to a bicycle frame
tends to crack it unless you stand on the pedals to unweight the frame
while going over harsh bumps. A recumbent can't be unweighed for bumps,
and isn't cheap to replace. It's just a bad choice here.

> ::and aren't a real good choice for utility use either
>
> What?
>


A utility bike needs a lot of baskets for easily carrying stuff (a
backpack or panniers ain't the same). A standard upright cruiser bike
can have a rack and dual baskets on the rear, as well as another large
basket on the front. I don't know any recumbent that can do that--that
can match that basket capacity.

Also, a utility bike needs to look cheap and uninteresting, so as not to
attract thieves. I don't know any recumbent that can do that either, but
I can build a functional upright bike to do that.

As for the riding discomfort--a utility bike is by nature a short-range
bicycle anyway, ~5 miles and under.
~
 
DougC wrote:
> Roger Zoul wrote:
>> DougC wrote:
>> :: The bike I have on order is an upright however, and the next bike
>> :: will probably be an upright too.
>> ::
>> :: Recumbents are great for recreational and long-distance riding, but I
>> :: have come to the realization that they aren't the best for
>> :: motorization,
>>
>> What does that mean?


> "Motorization" means "adding a motor".
> Even if you only ever use it on-road, adding a motor to a bicycle frame
> tends to crack it unless you stand on the pedals to unweight the frame
> while going over harsh bumps. A recumbent can't be unweighed for bumps,
> and isn't cheap to replace. It's just a bad choice here.


But if it's an electric motor it will be in one of the hubs in any case,
and especially if you've got a suspended bike why should that bother the
frame at all? Kinetics (kinetics.org.uk) has a history of building
electric assist motors into recumbents: think Ben would have given up a
while ago if it didn't work.

>> ::and aren't a real good choice for utility use either
>>
>> What?


> A utility bike needs a lot of baskets for easily carrying stuff (a
> backpack or panniers ain't the same). A standard upright cruiser bike
> can have a rack and dual baskets on the rear, as well as another large
> basket on the front. I don't know any recumbent that can do that--that
> can match that basket capacity.


If you can find a standard upright cruiser that can match a Brox or AVD
Pickup for cargo capacity I would be *very* surprised.

And aside from special cargo machines you can easily make most bikes
highly cargo-capable by simply adding a trailer, which is much easier to
load and unload than a myriad of baskets (just take a single big crate
in and out).

> Also, a utility bike needs to look cheap and uninteresting, so as not to
> attract thieves. I don't know any recumbent that can do that either, but
> I can build a functional upright bike to do that.


That doesn't necessarily follow. Reasons to steal a bike will often
include ease of getaway and possibility to sell it on. Since 'bents are
rare and unusual and stick out like a sore thumb they're not the obvious
choice for someone wanting to stay undetected and/or wanting to sell it
on. You'd be much better off stealing an MTB for either of those. And
as far as opportunism goes, many potential thieves won't even be sure
they know how to ride it in the first place.
While not /completely/ thief-proof, they are certainly not nearly as
thief-friendly as you suggest IMHO.

I've used a 'bent as a general purpose bike, and haven't had any
problems with it.

> As for the riding discomfort--a utility bike is by nature a short-range
> bicycle anyway, ~5 miles and under.


I do round trips of >10 miles for some of my shopping (one of my
favourite beers and my preferred ready-made pizzas are only stocked by a
supermarket at the other end of town). I use the 'bent for those trips,
rather than the freight bike, 'cause it's much easier to ride > 10 miles.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
"Zebee Johnstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Wed, 23 May 2007 01:27:34 -0400
> Roger Zoul <[email protected]> wrote:
>> DougC wrote:
>>:: The bike I have on order is an upright however, and the next bike
>>:: will probably be an upright too.
>>::
>>:: Recumbents are great for recreational and long-distance riding, but I
>>:: have come to the realization that they aren't the best for
>>:: motorization,
>>
>> What does that mean?

>
> I think it means putting an auxilliary motor on. Not sure why they
> aren't good for that, possibly a "where do I put it, the front
> downtube is such a nice spot" problem.
>>
>>::and aren't a real good choice for utility use either
>>

>
> I was thinking about this. Bents don't really take to extensions for
> big loads, like an xtracycle or a large front basket, or those Dutch
> things which take a couple of kids on the front.
>
> They are harder to frig with more or less. If you took the bent you
> own and wanted to modify it to take big wide loads, how would you do
> it? With an upright you add an xtracycle, with a bent?
>
> Zebee


Hmmm, how to carry **** onna bent? Let's see...How 'bout a rack and
panniers? How about attaching a trailer?



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 
"DougC" <[email protected]> wrote
> A utility bike needs a lot of baskets for easily carrying stuff (a
> backpack or panniers ain't the same). A standard upright cruiser bike can
> have a rack and dual baskets on the rear, as well as another large basket
> on the front. I don't know any recumbent that can do that--that can match
> that basket capacity.


Many recumbents (ER LWBs, BikeE, to my knowledge) can take utility
basket/box mounted behind seat in addition to rack side-mounted baskets.
In my experience, this arrangement is more stable than an upright
bike with a large and heavily loaded handlebar basket. Some bike tourist
use oyster buckets in leu of panniers and there are example of these
mounted to recumbent racks.

For my purposes, my BikeE is an excellent utility bike. I've brought
home large bags (35lbs) of pet food as well as other bulky items
strapped behind the seat.

Don't get me wrong, there are some things that uprights do better than
recumbents,-- techical mountain bike trail riding, probably. And,
"fitting in with the club", perhaps, if that matters. %^P

Jon
 
Peter Clinch wrote:
> If you can find a standard upright cruiser that can match a Brox or AVD
> Pickup for cargo capacity I would be *very* surprised.

Yea, but how much do they cost?
The best upright frame for motor use (Worksman) starts at only $300 for
a complete bike, + $60 or so for complete baskets and +$220 for a
7-speed coaster brake hub. I know there's Dutch cargo bikes for $2500
US, but if I had to spend that much it would completely destroy the
economic sense of the whole effort.

> And aside from special cargo machines you can easily make most bikes
> highly cargo-capable by simply adding a trailer, which is much easier to
> load and unload than a myriad of baskets (just take a single big crate
> in and out).

I might end up with a trailer, especially if I can score a cheap way to
build one (convert a baby jogger or something) but I wouldn't want to
need to use a trailer all the time, too much hassle. And a trailer's
gotta be locked up too.

> ...Reasons to steal a bike will often
> include ease of getaway and possibility to sell it on. Since 'bents are
> rare and unusual and stick out like a sore thumb they're not the obvious
> choice for someone wanting to stay undetected and/or wanting to sell it
> on.

I'd rather place my bets on a bike that looks so simple most people
would assume it wouldn't very-much be /worth/ stealing. The Worksman I
mentioned above has no QR's anywhere, no hand brakes at all. If two
different locks are used, it would appear to be a lot of hassle to
steal, for what doesn't appear to be a very expensive bike.

> I do round trips of >10 miles for some of my shopping (one of my
> favourite beers and my preferred ready-made pizzas are only stocked by a
> supermarket at the other end of town). I use the 'bent for those trips,
> rather than the freight bike, 'cause it's much easier to ride > 10 miles.

Yea but I'll still have a recumbent and a semi-recumbent to use (the
semi- has a rack and rear baskets, but too much "bling" to leave locked
up a lot of places I think).
~
 
DougC wrote:
> Peter Clinch wrote:
>> If you can find a standard upright cruiser that can match a Brox or
>> AVD Pickup for cargo capacity I would be *very* surprised.

> Yea, but how much do they cost?
> The best upright frame for motor use (Worksman) starts at only $300 for
> a complete bike, + $60 or so for complete baskets and +$220 for a
> 7-speed coaster brake hub. I know there's Dutch cargo bikes for $2500
> US, but if I had to spend that much it would completely destroy the
> economic sense of the whole effort.


For your criteria, possibly, but that's not the same as saying a
practical utility 'bent is impractical.

> I might end up with a trailer, especially if I can score a cheap way to
> build one (convert a baby jogger or something) but I wouldn't want to
> need to use a trailer all the time, too much hassle.


A lot of the beauty of a trailer is precisely that you don't have to use
it all the time, only when it's needed. I use a Burrows 8 Freight for
big loads, but it's a cumbersome thing if I /don't/ have a big load to move.

> And a trailer's gotta be locked up too.


Again, hardly a complete destruction of practicality credentials!

> I'd rather place my bets on a bike that looks so simple most people
> would assume it wouldn't very-much be /worth/ stealing. The Worksman I
> mentioned above has no QR's anywhere, no hand brakes at all.


Just a coaster brake with no hand brake backup, a 20 Kg load and going
down City Road, Dundee is not a recipe for staying out of hospital...
Depends where you are, but anywhere with Real Hills (TM) will need more
than a coaster brake. That's a lot of places, so I don't think the "no
hand brakes" thing is a real plus point in many/most cases.

> Yea but I'll still have a recumbent and a semi-recumbent to use (the
> semi- has a rack and rear baskets, but too much "bling" to leave locked
> up a lot of places I think).


My solution is several bikes too, but that's not to say you couldn't use
a 'bent as a single general purpose utility machine, that also happened
to go touring etc.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
 
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Wed, 23 May 2007 12:20:42 -0500
DougC <[email protected]> wrote:
> I might end up with a trailer, especially if I can score a cheap way to
> build one (convert a baby jogger or something) but I wouldn't want to
> need to use a trailer all the time, too much hassle. And a trailer's
> gotta be locked up too.
>


If you can find someone who can weld, then Moz's trailer design might
work
http://www.mozbike.com/build/shoptrailer/
http://www.mozbike.com/build/masstrailer/

I've been meaning to pick one of these up, although right now I have
no idea where the damn thing would go in the shed... Be good for
shopping, rig it so it can be used as a shopping trolley then get
hooked on the bike when loaded to go home.

Zebee
 
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Thu, 24 May 2007 08:32:10 +0100
Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> My solution is several bikes too, but that's not to say you couldn't use
> a 'bent as a single general purpose utility machine, that also happened
> to go touring etc.


I only have the one bike, so if I want to do several things with a
pushbike then the bent is it.

So far the only stuff I've wanted to carry on it has fitted in
panniers and/or seatbag or tied on the rack. I haven't needed a
trailer, most things I move that can't fit in panniers need a trailer
bigger than a pushie can manage, and as I am unlikely to end up with
something like Moz's "One Less Ute" I will use the motorcycle and
trailer for those.

Zebee
 
Zebee Johnstone wrote:
>
> If you can find someone who can weld, then Moz's trailer design might
> work.....


I've seen this design all over. I have welding equipment but I don't
like this trailer style that much.

One point I don't like is how these things always seem to use /bicycle/
wheels and tires, which to me doesn't make a lot of sense unless you're
insistent upon scrounging all the materials. I would think it would make
a lot more sense to use some pneumatic lawn equipment tires bought at a
hardware store. Lawn equipment wheels don't cost much, are considerably
thicker (more flat-resistant) and have a *lot* more air volume. If the
inflation pressure is adjusted according to the load they would give a
*lot* more shock-absorbing capacity than typical bicycle tires could.

The other point I don't like is how the wheels stick upwards through the
deck area. This is a by-product of using tall bicycle wheels of course.
Makes it a heck of a lot less convenient though. If you use shorter
whee;s and build the deck a bit higher, you can get a flat deck.

The only argument I could see for using bicycle tires was that if the
trailer used the same size tires as the bike, then you'd already be
carrying spare tubes..... but if you used smaller lawn-equipment wheels
and used a high deck, you would have room under the deck to make a
bracket to hold a spare wheel+tire or two anyway.
~
 
Jon wrote:
>
> For my purposes, my BikeE is an excellent utility bike. I've brought
> home large bags (35lbs) of pet food as well as other bulky items
> strapped behind the seat.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there are some things that uprights do better than
> recumbents,-- techical mountain bike trail riding, probably. And,
> "fitting in with the club", perhaps, if that matters. %^P
>
> Jon
>
>


Yea but see--I want a geared hub, and I also want a coaster-brake so I
won't need hand-operated brakes.... -and what recumbents can take a
coaster-brake hub? And do those recumbents (if any!) cost less than the
$300 basic price of a Worksman, which is one of the heaviest-duty bikes
around?

For any one of these problems there's solutions, but when taken as a
whole, it's a lot more sensible to use an upright bike (and for that
matter, most upright bikes I see wouldn't fit my qualifications either).

I plan on "test-riding" the motor-bike without the motor around town a
bit, to see how it goes (it'll have a front basket but not rears, as the
engine goes above the rear wheel, ruling out using rear carriers).
~
 
On Wed, 23 May 2007 09:11:40 -0700, Jon <[email protected]> wrote:

> "DougC" <[email protected]> wrote
>> A utility bike needs a lot of baskets for easily carrying stuff (a
>> backpack or panniers ain't the same). A standard upright cruiser bike
>> can
>> have a rack and dual baskets on the rear, as well as another large
>> basket
>> on the front. I don't know any recumbent that can do that--that can
>> match
>> that basket capacity.

>
> Many recumbents (ER LWBs, BikeE, to my knowledge) can take utility
> basket/box mounted behind seat in addition to rack side-mounted baskets.
> In my experience, this arrangement is more stable than an upright
> bike with a large and heavily loaded handlebar basket. Some bike tourist
> use oyster buckets in leu of panniers and there are example of these
> mounted to recumbent racks.
>
> For my purposes, my BikeE is an excellent utility bike. I've brought
> home large bags (35lbs) of pet food as well as other bulky items
> strapped behind the seat.
>
> Don't get me wrong, there are some things that uprights do better than
> recumbents,-- techical mountain bike trail riding, probably. And,
> "fitting in with the club", perhaps, if that matters. %^P
>
> Jon
>
>


I couldn't agree more. A BikeE has been my utility bike for years. Using
universal cargo capacity units, the underseat and rear panniers and seat
bag hold 18 six packs of bottled beer and is still very stable. Another 16
six packs fit in the BOB trailer, one of the smaller trailers around. If I
drank that stuff in cans, I could probably do 50% more. I want to see that
in a handlebar basket. I've also carried buckets of cat litter, furniture,
bags of manure, other bikes and wooden pallets. If you want cars to give
you lots of room on the road, strap a 4 foot by 4 foot wooden pallet to
the back of your bike.

As for motorizing, I used to have a motor on my Tour Easy and I'm sure it
could have run rings around a Worksman.

Pics of BikeE utility bike, motorized Tour Easy and bucket panniers:
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove/bikes.htm

Lorenzo L. Love
http://home.thegrid.net/~lllove

"Americans are broad-minded people. They'll accept the fact that a person
can be an alcoholic, a dope fiend, a wife beater, and even a newspaperman,
but if a man doesn't drive there's something wrong with him."
Art Buchwald
 
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Wed, 23 May 2007 06:23:02 -0500
gotbent <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> "Zebee Johnstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>
>> They are harder to frig with more or less. If you took the bent you
>> own and wanted to modify it to take big wide loads, how would you do
>> it? With an upright you add an xtracycle, with a bent?
>>
>> Zebee

>
> Hmmm, how to carry **** onna bent? Let's see...How 'bout a rack and
> panniers? How about attaching a trailer?


Rack and panniers don't carry big wide loads of the kind an xtracycle
does.

A trailer is an extra hassle, again it doesn't do the same job in the
same way - a utility bike is a specific set of requirements.

So, how do you carry big wide loads on a bent, not on an attachement?

Zebee
 
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Thu, 24 May 2007 09:11:14 -0500
DougC <[email protected]> wrote:
> a lot more sense to use some pneumatic lawn equipment tires bought at a
> hardware store. Lawn equipment wheels don't cost much, are considerably
> thicker (more flat-resistant) and have a *lot* more air volume. If the
> inflation pressure is adjusted according to the load they would give a
> *lot* more shock-absorbing capacity than typical bicycle tires could.


What's the weight difference between 20" bmx wheels/tyres and the lawn
equipment ones?

IS there a difference in how they handle, as turning on fixed wheels
requires the wheels to drag some? (I think...)

Zebee
 
In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Thu, 24 May 2007 12:40:36 -0500
DougC <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Yea but see--I want a geared hub, and I also want a coaster-brake so I
> won't need hand-operated brakes.... -and what recumbents can take a
> coaster-brake hub? And do those recumbents (if any!) cost less than the
> $300 basic price of a Worksman, which is one of the heaviest-duty bikes
> around?
>


I dunno you can factor cost in, because that is an economy of scale
thing. A 'bent isn't that much more expensive to make than an
upright, if there were millions of them made, they'd be as cheap as
uprights.

Zebee
 
"Zebee Johnstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent on Wed, 23 May 2007 06:23:02 -0500
> gotbent <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> "Zebee Johnstone" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>
>>> They are harder to frig with more or less. If you took the bent you
>>> own and wanted to modify it to take big wide loads, how would you do
>>> it? With an upright you add an xtracycle, with a bent?
>>>
>>> Zebee

>>
>> Hmmm, how to carry **** onna bent? Let's see...How 'bout a rack and
>> panniers? How about attaching a trailer?

>
> Rack and panniers don't carry big wide loads of the kind an xtracycle
> does.
>
> A trailer is an extra hassle, again it doesn't do the same job in the
> same way - a utility bike is a specific set of requirements.
>
> So, how do you carry big wide loads on a bent, not on an attachement?
>
> Zebee


It sounds like you want a sportcar that has the capacity of a pickup truck.
Maybe the best solution for you is to have the xtracycle whatsis and another
bike for sport. Or for really big loads you could go Asian style and lash a
huge amount of stuff on the bike and you walk along and push. Or you could
do a diligent search for a wide-ish flat-ish trailer with lashing points for
ropes.

I'm not positive, but I think a long-ago thread on ARBR dealt with trailers.
I kind of remember a guy making a trailer out of a ladder or maybe he added
wheels to the ladder so he could haul it around trailer fashion. He also
hauled lumber.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
 

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