Advance stop lines

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Could we give some sort of financial incentive to those with certain
qualifications?

Negative maybe -- show you are competant or pay. Can't see Gordon Brown
being too free with the public purse.

Quoted message said:

What about putting "roadmanship" on the national curriculum? It could

have

Quoted message said:

modules leading to several different qualifications, one of which might be

a

Quoted message said:

driving licence. Isn't roadmanship an essential life skill?

It usd to be known as the Cycling Proficiency Test. But most modern yoof
arn't allowed past the end of the close with a bike as the roads are 'too
dangerous'.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Compusory refresher cources and additional testing every 5 years?

What about random checks, like breath tests, if roadmanship incompetence

is

Quoted message said:

evident? Penalty points and on-the-spot fines being available for dishing
out to those who fail.

Might fall foul of human rights legislation. Got to be fair to all.
Anyway, when did you last see a traffic cop?

Quoted message said:

Yes, but it could/would/should become compulsory for all non-pedestrian

road

Quoted message said:

users.

And why not pedestrians? You touch apon the difference etween pedestrians,
cyclists and horse riders -- who use the road as of right -- and motorists
who are licenced to use the road.

snip

Quoted message said:

Do you think that pedal cyclists would tolerate being expected to learn

and

Quoted message said:

be able to demonstrate the skill and knowledge necessary to be a good road
user, not being so used to the discipline as motor vehicle drivers?

See comments above regarding Cycling Proficiency Test and use of the road as
of right. In Blair's New Britain we will all need a licence to breath and
training to fart (aka compusory ID cards)

T

"Tony W" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Could we give some sort of financial incentive to those with certain
qualifications?

Negative maybe -- show you are competant or pay. Can't see Gordon Brown
being too free with the public purse.

I prefer carrots to sticks, I'm sure they are more effective.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

What about putting "roadmanship" on the national curriculum? It could
have
modules leading to several different qualifications, one of which might
be a
driving licence. Isn't roadmanship an essential life skill?

It usd to be known as the Cycling Proficiency Test. But most modern yoof
arn't allowed past the end of the close with a bike as the roads are 'too
dangerous'.

Does that excuse it not being on the national curriculum?

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Compusory refresher cources and additional testing every 5 years?

What about random checks, like breath tests, if roadmanship incompetence

is

Quoted message said:

evident? Penalty points and on-the-spot fines being available for
dishing
out to those who fail.

Might fall foul of human rights legislation. Got to be fair to all.

Fair to all? Apply it to _all_ anti-social road use habits, not just "drunk
driving".

Quoted message said:

Anyway, when did you last see a traffic cop?

Good point, but if we are to demonstrate a true committment to road safety
(rather than the current lip service paid through the so-called "safety
camera partnerships".) perhaps a new force of "road safety marshalls", or
something, is required. They don't need to know anything about the criminal
law, or be trained to drive fast, or have state-of-the-art cars and
electronic gadgetery, or be part of the police force, just be experts in
road use, and be trained to spott offenders.

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Yes, but it could/would/should become compulsory for all non-pedestrian

road

Quoted message said:

users.

And why not pedestrians?

There you _would_ be talking about infringement of fundamental human rights.

Quoted message said:

You touch apon the difference etween pedestrians,
cyclists and horse riders -- who use the road as of right -- and motorists
who are licenced to use the road.

snip

Quoted message said:

Do you think that pedal cyclists would tolerate being expected to learn

and

Quoted message said:

be able to demonstrate the skill and knowledge necessary to be a good
road
user, not being so used to the discipline as motor vehicle drivers?

See comments above regarding Cycling Proficiency Test and use of the road
as
of right. In Blair's New Britain we will all need a licence to breath and
training to fart (aka compusory ID cards)

Perhaps, with the incentives, training, and "road marshalls" I've discussed
above we could kick the idea of licences (for bikes, cars, or whatever) into
touch once and for all. After all, we don't need a "licence" to be
_allowed_ to do other more dangerous or more important things in our private
and/or public lives :-)

--
Matt B

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking either
hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

--
Matt B

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Which type would you rather encounter? Which type would you rather be the
victim of?

As dippy drivers usually move more slowly and and have feet off the
throttle more than aggressive drivers, I have a better chance of
surviving the dippy driver...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Quoted message said:

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking either
hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Quoted message said:

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

I never said 'never'. Road positioning frequently indicates position
better than signalling. I think in some circumstances, like when moving
off, safety considerations exceed those of courtesy.

Sometimes giving a signal can be _more_ dangerous than giving none AAMOF...

--
Helen D. Vecht: [email hidden]
Edgware.

Matt B said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking either
hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

Do you answer so many posts with questions in order to appear deep
thinking, didactic, and contemplative, or do you do it just to give
the appearance of being a complete [censored]? Hopefully the latter,
because it's certainly having that effect, and I'd hate to think
you were simply a moron. Ah, but then ...

--
Trevor Barton

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

> Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Quoted message said:

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking either
hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Quoted message said:

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

I never said 'never'.

No, which is why I asked th question. You said "keeping both hands on the
handlebars improves control", so I wondered if you thought that there was
_ever_ an excuse to take either off.

Quoted message said:

Road positioning frequently indicates position

Of course. If you're in the right turn lane then one assumes you are about
to turn right, but it may be prudent to signal prior to crossing several
other lanes to get there.

Quoted message said:

better than signalling. I think in some circumstances, like when moving
off, safety considerations exceed those of courtesy.

It's weighing the pros and cons where the skill lies?

Quoted message said:

Sometimes giving a signal can be _more_ dangerous than giving none
AAMOF...

Yes, especially if it's the wrong signal ;-)

--
Matt B

"Trevor Barton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Do you answer so many posts with questions in order to
appear deep thinking, didactic, and contemplative,

None of those.

Quoted message said:

or do you do it just to give the appearance of being a complete [censored]?

No.

Quoted message said:

Hopefully the latter,

Your "clever" closed question did not cover all possibilities did it. Try
again.

Quoted message said:

because it's certainly having that effect, and I'd hate to think
you were simply a moron. Ah, but then ...

Are you interested in road safety?

--
Matt B

"Trevor Barton" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

> Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking either
hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

Do you answer so many posts with questions in order to appear deep
thinking, didactic, and contemplative, or do you do it just to give
the appearance of being a complete [censored]? Hopefully the latter,
because it's certainly having that effect, and I'd hate to think
you were simply a moron. Ah, but then ...

--
Trevor Barton

Socrates - now he was a [censored]...

Graham

Matt B said:

I'm not really familiar/experienced enough to be able to give an
authoritative view, but am tempted to go to the front and fill the space, as
it is provided. I'm a little worried about the consequential chaotic
move-off though, which is why I'm looking for views from this group.

If there is space in the ASL and there is space to get there and looks
like time to get there then I go in.

"stupot" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Matt B said:

I'm not really familiar/experienced enough to be able to give an
authoritative view, but am tempted to go to the front and fill the space,
as it is provided. I'm a little worried about the consequential chaotic
move-off though, which is why I'm looking for views from this group.

If there is space in the ASL and there is space to get there
and looks like time to get there

Oh dear, another judgement call :-)

Quoted message said:

then I go in.

--
Matt B

in message <[email hidden]>, Matt B

(') said:

Should road safety initiatives and resources be concentrated on
educating, and indeed eliminating the un-educatable, road users?

Yup. Dangerous driving, immediate and permanent revocation of license to
drive. Driving without license, automatic jail time. Causing death with
a motor (or indeed any other) vehicle, automatic manslaughter charge.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

Hobbit ringleader gives Sauron One in the Eye.

in message <[email hidden]>, Matt B

(') said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking
either hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Personally, no. I signal. I even signal left turns, which many people
here argue (with some sense) is dangerous.

Quoted message said:

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

I think it's vital.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

'graveyards are full of indispensable people'

in message <[email hidden]>, Trevor Barton

(') said:

Matt B said:

"Helen Deborah Vecht" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

> Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking
either hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

Do you answer so many posts with questions in order to appear deep
thinking, didactic, and contemplative, or do you do it just to give
the appearance of being a complete [censored]?

What gives you that impression? Most of the questions are sensible ones.

--
[email hidden] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

<p>Schroedinger's cat is <blink><strong>NOT</strong></blink> dead.</p>

Tony W said:

[snip]

To do so Johnny Plonker (the perhaps 1% of drivers who are positively
dangerous) and his mates, Dippy Dave and Ditsy Doreen (the 30% who drives
without due care and attention) need to be restrained. Personally I could
not approve of Guy's solution (cutting off their balls with a rusty knife,
hanging them and burning the body) but I will admit that, for some, it has
attractions.

Might be a tricky solution to apply to Ditsy Doreen 'though :-)

Peter

www.amey.org.uk

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Matt B

(') said:

Should road safety initiatives and resources be concentrated on
educating, and indeed eliminating the un-educatable, road users?

Yup. Dangerous driving, immediate and permanent revocation of license to
drive. Driving without license, automatic jail time. Causing death with
a motor (or indeed any other) vehicle, automatic manslaughter charge.

You would support the idea of cyclists having to be licensed then. What
about pedestrians?

--
Matt B

Matt B said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

in message <[email hidden]>, Matt B

(') said:

Should road safety initiatives and resources be concentrated on
educating, and indeed eliminating the un-educatable, road users?

Yup. Dangerous driving, immediate and permanent revocation of license to
drive. Driving without license, automatic jail time. Causing death with
a motor (or indeed any other) vehicle, automatic manslaughter charge.

You would support the idea of cyclists having to be licensed then. What
about pedestrians?

I think that is a bit of a jump from what Simon actually wrote. I see
nothing to suggest he is in favour of licensing cyclists.

--
Andy Leighton => [email hidden]
"The Lord is my shepherd, but we still lost the sheep dog trials"
- Robert Rankin, _They Came And Ate Us_

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Why no signal?

Cos keeping both hands on the handlebars improves control.

Would you not give a signal, then put your hands back on the bars before
moving off?

John B

Matt B said:

"Simon Brooke" <[email hidden]> wrote in message
news:[email hidden]...

Quoted message said:

Yup. Dangerous driving, immediate and permanent revocation of license to
drive. Driving without license, automatic jail time. Causing death with
a motor (or indeed any other) vehicle, automatic manslaughter charge.

You would support the idea of cyclists having to be licensed then. What
about pedestrians?

Eh? In your world, is murder an offence? Is it therefore necessary
to license everybody?

If not, can you elaborate on why Simon's statement requires licensing
cyclists.

regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|

Helen Deborah Vecht said:

"Matt B" <[email hidden]>typed

Quoted message said:

Quoted message said:

Would you advocate that _never_ giving signals and _never_ taking either
hand off the handlebars results in a safer journey?

Quoted message said:

Do you consider that courtesey has a place in road use?

I never said 'never'. Road positioning frequently indicates position
better than signalling. I think in some circumstances, like when moving
off, safety considerations exceed those of courtesy.

Isn't a combination of road positioning *and* signalling best?

Quoted message said:

Sometimes giving a signal can be _more_ dangerous than giving none AAMOF...

Sometimes.

John B