Advantages of cycling shoes/cleats?



P

Peewiglet

Guest
I've now got toe clips on my pedals, and they seem to make riding
quite a lot easier. Are there real advantages to cycling shoes,
though? At the moment I'm just using trainers.

Also, do shoes with cleats work more effectively than toe clips?

Thanks for any advice.


Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk
 
G

Graham Dean

Guest
"Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've now got toe clips on my pedals, and they seem to make riding
> quite a lot easier. Are there real advantages to cycling shoes,
> though? At the moment I'm just using trainers.
>
> Also, do shoes with cleats work more effectively than toe clips?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
>
> Best wishes,
> --
> ,,
> (**)PeeWiglet~~
> / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk


Hi Peewiglet,

The main advantage of a cycling shoe is the stiffness of the sole - better
transfer of force.
Cleats help when you develop a 'circle' pedalling action, rather than just
pushing down, and
of course stop you pulling your foot out of the top clip.

However, in my experience - clipless pedals (spd / look) and shoe are far
the better - all the benefits
of previous shoes/ cleats with with built in sideways float for comfort and
to avoid knee problems.

Of course, you *will* fall off with them at least once when you 'forget'....

Graham
 
D

David Martin

Guest
Peewiglet wrote:
> I've now got toe clips on my pedals, and they seem to make riding
> quite a lot easier. Are there real advantages to cycling shoes,
> though? At the moment I'm just using trainers.


Yes. Much stiffer soles for one, which will give more comfort in the
long term and not trash the soles of trainers.
>
> Also, do shoes with cleats work more effectively than toe clips?


Yes, for a variety of reasons.
...d

>
> Thanks for any advice.
>
>
> Best wishes,
> --
> ,,
> (**)PeeWiglet~~
> / \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk
 
P

Peter B

Guest
"Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've now got toe clips on my pedals, and they seem to make riding
> quite a lot easier. Are there real advantages to cycling shoes,
> though? At the moment I'm just using trainers.
>
> Also, do shoes with cleats work more effectively than toe clips?


The stiffer soles of proper cycling shoes should be more efficient as you
won't waste energy flexing your foot, they may also be more comfy as they
spread the pedal load across a greater area of your foot.

Cleats won't work more effectively in terms of power but as the pedal/cleat
combo allows the foot to float there is less risk of knee injury which apart
from the pain & long term damage will affect your performance.
Bear in mind toe-clips were designed to function at their best with shoe
plates that engaged the pedal cage, this means that with the straps done up
tight enough to be effective your foot is locked onto the pedal and swift
loosening of the strap is required in an emergency, absolutely **** for
mountainbiking and not desirable for road cycling.
Again, overtightening of the strap can interfere with circulation and the
strap may be uncomfortable even when not too tight.

If you've not yet used toe clips don't even bother, you'll just learn a
technique that will go against you if/when you decide to go clipless.
Clipless pedals are better value than ever nowadays anyway.
--
Pete
http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/P
 
T

Tony

Guest
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:58:45 +0100, Peewiglet <[email protected]>
wrote:

>I've now got toe clips on my pedals, and they seem to make riding
>quite a lot easier. Are there real advantages to cycling shoes,
>though? At the moment I'm just using trainers.
>
>Also, do shoes with cleats work more effectively than toe clips?
>


I prefer using toe clips (40 years experience of them - too old to
learn new tricks !). Tried Look & SPD - find it difficult to remember
to twist foot sideways to unlock, so spent a lot of time
unsuccessfully trying to fly ! Worst time was outside a pig farm ....

Might be an idea to borrow a bike so fitted (and the shoes,
naturally!) and see how you get on with them - expensive mistake if
they don't suit. I suspect that it's fashion & 'peer pressure' (never
a driving force in my life) that make people want clipless pedals.

Good luck.

Tony
 
W

Woody

Guest
> Hi Peewiglet,
>

snip

> However, in my experience - clipless pedals (spd / look) and shoe are far
> the better - all the benefits
> of previous shoes/ cleats with with built in sideways float for comfort
> and to avoid knee problems.
>


My experience has always been the opposite, I have tried SPDs and Time ATAC
and both systems have caused problems with an old knee injury related to
jogging. Toe clips allow my foot to move much more and I have no problems,
though I have them reasonably loose.

I would advocate trying them and only using toes clips if you have problems
like mine though as they are much more efficient

Woody
 
P

Peter B

Guest
"Tony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I suspect that it's fashion & 'peer pressure' (never
> a driving force in my life) that make people want clipless pedals.


No, no, no, you blinkin' Luddite :)

I first moved to clipless about '92 for mtbing and it was an expensive
exercise, (there was XT spds for 100 quid or XT spds for 100 quid) but it
was a quantum leap forward <1>.
As soon as I could afford to I changed my road bike over too, less of a leap
forward but forward it was.
Anyone who thinks that dis-engaging an spd off-road quickly is problematical
hasn't had to do it with toe-clips, and re-engaging toe clips on rough
terrain is a total ball-ache which leaves the clip dragging in the terra &
flora.
And I cut my teeth riding a fixed with toe-clips and shoe plates in an urban
environment so got pretty adept at flicking the strap Q/R while the pedal
rotated.
<1> Apart from the rare fall sideways initially :)
--
Pete
http://uk.geocities.com/[email protected]/P
 
G

Graham Dean

Guest
"Woody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:p[email protected]
> > Hi Peewiglet,
> >

> snip
>
> > However, in my experience - clipless pedals (spd / look) and shoe are

far
> > the better - all the benefits
> > of previous shoes/ cleats with with built in sideways float for comfort
> > and to avoid knee problems.
> >

>
> My experience has always been the opposite, I have tried SPDs and Time

ATAC
> and both systems have caused problems with an old knee injury related to
> jogging. Toe clips allow my foot to move much more and I have no

problems,
> though I have them reasonably loose.
>
> I would advocate trying them and only using toes clips if you have

problems
> like mine though as they are much more efficient
>
> Woody
>
>


Interesting - I guess we're all different.... Tho, just to be clear, I was
writing about top clips / shoe plates
with toestraps done up tight - tho maybe you were as well.

Actually, the other problem I've found with spd pedals is when you jump on
the bike just with
trainers on it's not very good.... I think you can get single-sided spd /
single-sided sensible pedal?..

Graham
 
D

David Martin

Guest
Graham Dean wrote:

> Actually, the other problem I've found with spd pedals is when you jump on
> the bike just with
> trainers on it's not very good.... I think you can get single-sided spd /
> single-sided sensible pedal?..


Yup, I have them on my commuter. excellent kit,

...d
 
T

Tony

Guest
On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:53:01 +0000 (UTC), "Peter B"
<[email protected]> wrote:


>
>No, no, no, you blinkin' Luddite :)
>

Luddite ? How very very dare you, Sir - I remember Spinning Jenny
(never caught her, though !). Seriously, I was commenting on my own
experiences.

><1> Apart from the rare fall sideways initially :)


Rare fall, he says - every blinking ride till I returned to clips &
straps (but no shoe-plates). And yes, I too have ridden fixed with
toe-clips & straps - to & from Herne Hill via Kingston Hill & Richmond
Park !

Tony
 
S

Simon Brooke

Guest
in message <[email protected]>, Tony
('[email protected]') wrote:

> On Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:58:45 +0100, Peewiglet <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>>I've now got toe clips on my pedals, and they seem to make riding
>>quite a lot easier. Are there real advantages to cycling shoes,
>>though? At the moment I'm just using trainers.
>>
>>Also, do shoes with cleats work more effectively than toe clips?

>
> I prefer using toe clips (40 years experience of them - too old to
> learn new tricks !). Tried Look & SPD - find it difficult to remember
> to twist foot sideways to unlock, so spent a lot of time
> unsuccessfully trying to fly ! Worst time was outside a pig farm ....


This is absolute nonsense. Peter B has already answered it from the
off-road point of view, and I agree with everything he says. But I used
toeclips with straps on the road for thirty years, and so can say with
experience that 'clipless' systems are infinitely better and safer.

If your straps on a 'clips and straps' system are tight enough, then to
get a foot out you have to lean down and release the strap first. If the
strap is so loose that you can get your foot out without doing this,
then you're losing significant power. In the 'clips and straps' days I
had to track stand at traffic lights (or hang onto the gutters of
adjacent cars - unpopular!) because the business of unstrapping my feet
was just too much hassle - and that obviously involves a serious risk of
a fall in a bad place. Yes, you can pratfall with clipless systems too,
but you'll only do it once, and either

* you'll have significantly more power for the same effort or
* you'll be /a lot/ less likely to fall.

Also, of course, a cycle shoe with a near rigid sole supports the foot a
lot better than a trainer with a flexible sole.

--
[email protected] (Simon Brooke) http://www.jasmine.org.uk/~simon/

;; 'I think we should trust our president in every decision
;; that he makes and we should just support that'
;; Britney Spears of George W Bush, CNN 04:09:03
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
I submit that on or about Sat, 23 Jul 2005 20:38:16 +0000 (UTC), the
person known to the court as Tony <[email protected]> made a
statement (<[email protected]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

>I prefer using toe clips (40 years experience of them - too old to
>learn new tricks !). Tried Look & SPD - find it difficult to remember
>to twist foot sideways to unlock, so spent a lot of time
>unsuccessfully trying to fly


I find this very hard to understand, unless you are leaving your
straps loose as Simon suggests. My first clipless pedals were Looks,
and apart from looking very foolish when I forgot and tried a scooting
dismount I never had a problem.

I remember watching a schoolfriend, an experienced junior racer,
falling gracefully to the floor at traffic lights when his track stand
was compromised. No chance of getting a foot out of tight straps!
Clipless pedals are fantastic, and I miss them on my Brom.


Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken
 
M

Mark Thompson

Guest
> and apart from looking very foolish when I forgot and tried a scooting
> dismount I never had a problem.


You tried a scooting dismount without unclipping? Superb. What exactly
happened?

If you're tempted by clipless Peewiglet (not sure why you would be after
reading this lot!) you might like spd's. As well as being able to walk
normally while wearing them you can adjust the tightness. I've mine on the
loosest level, which combined with mtb pedals means while I don't come out
by accident a small yank disengages the clips. I've forgotten to unclip
loads of times, but never even nearly f*all*n *ver.
 
J

Just zis Guy, you know?

Guest
I submit that on or about Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:26:18 GMT, the person
known to the court as Mark Thompson
<[email protected]> made a statement
(<[email protected]> in Your
Honour's bundle) to the following effect:

>> and apart from looking very foolish when I forgot and tried a scooting
>> dismount I never had a problem.


>You tried a scooting dismount without unclipping? Superb. What exactly
>happened?


Everything went entirely according to plan until my right foot (the
one I'd released and swung over) touched down, at which point I
remembered that Look cleats have a coefficient of friction slightly
lower than that of well-greased ball bearings. The solution - putting
the other foot down - was hampered by the fact that the direction of
fall by this time precluded the necessary twisting motion.

I think a scooting dismount could be achieved with SPDs if you release
first, a scooting mount certainly can,


Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk

"To every complex problem there is a solution which is
simple, neat and wrong" - HL Mencken
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"Peewiglet" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I've now got toe clips on my pedals, and they seem to make riding
> quite a lot easier. Are there real advantages to cycling shoes,
> though? At the moment I'm just using trainers.
>
> Also, do shoes with cleats work more effectively than toe clips?
>
> Thanks for any advice.
>


Proper cycling shoes are best - stiff sole better transfer of power to the
pedal.

I've never regretted changing to clipless pedals - I use Look pedals. Before
the change I used platform pedals with & without toeclips. Literally
overnight my knee pain disappeared as my pedal action became smoother and
more efficient - as you effectively pull on the upstroke you don't have to
push as hard on the downstroke for the same speed. It's made uphill so much
easier too. It is key you get the position of the cleat on the sole of the
shoe correct - or you can end up hurting. Looks work brilliantly for me. I
would never have thought of changing except I was given a pair of Look shoes
for free, so vernon went & bought me a set of Look pedals. It was
'interesting' getting used to clipping in and remembering to unclip before
the bike came to a halt. I had the obligatory tumble :) For a short while I
was accomapnied by my son on cycling trips short and long, yelling "Unclip!
Unclip!" at me whenever I got near any situation where unclipping was a
possibility. I felt a bit like a leper of old ;-) Pretty soon it became
second nature and I have no problem clipping in and out frequently in
traffic when the need arises. I would not willingly go back to platform
pedals.

Cheers, helen s
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"Tony" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>I suspect that it's fashion & 'peer pressure' (never
> a driving force in my life) that make people want clipless pedals.
>


No, I've never regretted the change to clipless pedals and would not
willingly go back to platforms. Clipless simply are better. More efficient
pedalling action, and they make any sort of hill much easier. My knee pain
vanished overnight on the change to clipless and my cycling became smoother
and more efficient.

Cheers, helen s
 
M

Mark Thompson

Guest
> I think a scooting dismount could be achieved with SPDs if you release
> first, a scooting mount certainly can,


Yeah, easy-peasy in spd's. One thing that annoys me slightly is not being
able to clip the right foot in the left pedal. Could lead to all sorts of
fun with rolling dis/mounts.
 
P

Peewiglet

Guest
Many thnaks to all for the help with this. I'm going to give the
clipless pedals a go, not least becuase I've been developing sore
knees and a couple of people have mentioned that clipless pedals can
help with that. I'll start a new thread to ask for some
recommendations.

Many thanks again - all help is much appreciated :)


Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk
 
T

Tim Woodall

Guest
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 19:58:07 +0100,
Peewiglet <[email protected]> wrote:
> Many thnaks to all for the help with this. I'm going to give the
> clipless pedals a go, not least becuase I've been developing sore
> knees and a couple of people have mentioned that clipless pedals can
> help with that. I'll start a new thread to ask for some
> recommendations.
>

Sore knees is often a sign of saddle too low or cadence too low. If you
are going for clipless pedals you may find you need to raise your saddle
a little more. (expecially if you go for Look pedals)

Cadence you just have to work at - It (can) feel uncomfortable to spin the
pedals. But try riding just one gear lower than you really want to be in
and work from that. People will naturally use a cadence of about 60
because that is the most efficient[1] but you want to be doing something
above 80.

Tim.

[1] Most efficient in terms of calories consumed to power output but
this doesn't enable you to go the furthest without resting because
although your muscles are more efficient if they are working against
more resistance they can't maintain that effort for as long.

--
God said, "div D = rho, div B = 0, curl E = - @B/@t, curl H = J + @D/@t,"
and there was light.

http://tjw.hn.org/ http://www.locofungus.btinternet.co.uk/
 
T

Tony

Guest
On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 08:06:41 +0100, Simon Brooke
<[email protected]> wrote:

>in message <[email protected]>, Tony
>('[email protected]btinternet.com') wrote:


>>
>> I prefer using toe clips (40 years experience of them - too old to
>> learn new tricks !). Tried Look & SPD - find it difficult to remember
>> to twist foot sideways to unlock, so spent a lot of time
>> unsuccessfully trying to fly ! Worst time was outside a pig farm ....

>
>This is absolute nonsense. Peter B has already answered it from the
>off-road point of view, and I agree with everything he says. But I used
>toeclips with straps on the road for thirty years, and so can say with
>experience that 'clipless' systems are infinitely better and safer.
>


You know, I'd really like to know how my comments are 'absolute
nonsense' - surely I am the one to know what experiences I have had
during my cycling lifetime, and I was merely relating some of them. I
was not disagreeing with anything anyone else said, just pointing out
that toe-clips & straps suit me better. Your experiences have
obviously been somewhat different to mine.

Tony