Advice needed on Hybrid purchase

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by BBBBiker, Aug 10, 2003.

  1. BBBBiker

    BBBBiker Guest

    I am about to replace a 23 yo Ricardo road bike. I had a back injury a
    few years ago and had the handlebars changed to upright, but it's not
    that great as it wasn't really designed for that configuration.

    I will be using the new bike almost entirely on sealed and gravelled
    bike paths and commuting to work (road and sealed path).

    It seems that a hybrid would be best for this purpose, although one MTB
    dealer said that a modified MTB is a better "all-rounder".

    From what I've seen, the hybrid riding position is probably better for a
    dodgy back (more upright).

    I'm looking inthe AU$600 - 800 range.

    I have seen two hybrids that I'm quite interested in. The Trek 7200
    ($749) and the Shogun Metro GS ($649), both from different dealers. Each
    recommends the brand they sell (obviously) and has criticisms of the
    other. So it's hard to get an unbiased opinion (if that's possible with
    dealers or riders).

    The Trek has front suspension, the Shogun has fixed forks. The Shimano
    components on the Shogun are better quality (Deore and Deore LX compared
    with Alivio on the Trek). Both have suspension seat posts. Brakes seem
    to be better on the Shogun as well.

    I believe Shogun is an Australian brand, but their website gives very
    little information and doesn't even have the current models.

    From what I understand, most, if not all bikes in this price range are
    made in China or Taiwan anyway.

    So, a few questions:

    Are Shogun a good brand?

    What is the quality of the frame, wheels and build compared to Trek?

    Am I paying for brandname and sponsorship with Trek (as suggested by
    Shogun dealer)?

    What are the arguments for and against front suspension/ fixed forks?

    Apparently the 2004 Shogun will have front suspension and will be a
    little more expensive, so I need to decide how important this is. The
    2004 Trek will apparently be an upgrade over the 2003 model and will be
    a little cheaper (according to Trek dealer).

    Am I better to get the Shogun and spend the difference on accessories,
    or is the Trek so much better frame, wheel and build quality (and with
    suspension) that it's worth the extra?

    I'm hoping to purchase in the next couple of weeks.

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



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  2. Cody

    Cody Guest

    I was in exactly the same situation as you after a back operation a few
    years ago and bought a Shogun Metro SE (the cheaper version of the GS). It
    has been excellent, I use it for commuting to work and the ocassional Sydney
    to Gong.

    Mine didn't have a suspension seat post so I added one (this was 4 years
    ago) then I fitted a better set of pedals and added a rack but apart from
    that the bike is as it was supplied and has worked well.

    The GS is even better equiped - my friend rides one to work. but I don't
    think you need the front suspension if you rarely leave the road I can
    highly recommmend the Shogun as good value.

    "BBBBiker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > I am about to replace a 23 yo Ricardo road bike. I had a back injury a
    > few years ago and had the handlebars changed to upright, but it's not
    > that great as it wasn't really designed for that configuration.
    >
    > I will be using the new bike almost entirely on sealed and gravelled
    > bike paths and commuting to work (road and sealed path).
    >
    > It seems that a hybrid would be best for this purpose, although one MTB
    > dealer said that a modified MTB is a better "all-rounder".
    >
    > From what I've seen, the hybrid riding position is probably better for a
    > dodgy back (more upright).
    >
    > I'm looking inthe AU$600 - 800 range.
    >
    > I have seen two hybrids that I'm quite interested in. The Trek 7200
    > ($749) and the Shogun Metro GS ($649), both from different dealers. Each
    > recommends the brand they sell (obviously) and has criticisms of the
    > other. So it's hard to get an unbiased opinion (if that's possible with
    > dealers or riders).
    >
    > The Trek has front suspension, the Shogun has fixed forks. The Shimano
    > components on the Shogun are better quality (Deore and Deore LX compared
    > with Alivio on the Trek). Both have suspension seat posts. Brakes seem
    > to be better on the Shogun as well.
    >
    > I believe Shogun is an Australian brand, but their website gives very
    > little information and doesn't even have the current models.
    >
    > From what I understand, most, if not all bikes in this price range are
    > made in China or Taiwan anyway.
    >
    > So, a few questions:
    >
    > Are Shogun a good brand?
    >
    > What is the quality of the frame, wheels and build compared to Trek?
    >
    > Am I paying for brandname and sponsorship with Trek (as suggested by
    > Shogun dealer)?
    >
    > What are the arguments for and against front suspension/ fixed forks?
    >
    > Apparently the 2004 Shogun will have front suspension and will be a
    > little more expensive, so I need to decide how important this is. The
    > 2004 Trek will apparently be an upgrade over the 2003 model and will be
    > a little cheaper (according to Trek dealer).
    >
    > Am I better to get the Shogun and spend the difference on accessories,
    > or is the Trek so much better frame, wheel and build quality (and with
    > suspension) that it's worth the extra?
    >
    > I'm hoping to purchase in the next couple of weeks.
    >
    > Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
    >
    >
    >
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    > >--------------------------<

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  3. Al

    Al Guest

    The previous post didn't mention that these bikes run thinner tires than the
    usual hybrid (the Blade has 28s). I bought the entry level Avanti Blade as
    a cheapish ($480) commuter, and am finding it perfect for my purposes.
    Specialised also do this kind of hybrid-hybrid and have five models in their
    range.

    "amirm" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > BBBBiker wrote:
    > > I am about to replace a 23 yo Ricardo road bike. I had a back injury a
    > > few years ago and had the handlebars changed to upright, but it's not
    > > that great as it wasn't really designed for that configuration.
    > > I will be using the new bike almost entirely on sealed and gravelled
    > > bike paths and commuting to work (road and sealed path).
    > > It seems that a hybrid would be best for this purpose, although one

    MTB
    > > dealer said that a modified MTB is a better "all-rounder".
    > > From what I've seen, the hybrid riding position is probably better for

    a
    > > dodgy back (more upright).
    > > I'm looking inthe AU$600 - 800 range.
    > > I have seen two hybrids that I'm quite interested in. The Trek 7200
    > > ($749) and the Shogun Metro GS ($649), both from different dealers.

    Each
    > > recommends the brand they sell (obviously) and has criticisms of the
    > > other. So it's hard to get an unbiased opinion (if that's possible

    with
    > > dealers or riders).
    > > The Trek has front suspension, the Shogun has fixed forks. The Shimano
    > > components on the Shogun are better quality (Deore and Deore LX

    compared
    > > with Alivio on the Trek). Both have suspension seat posts. Brakes seem
    > > to be better on the Shogun as well.
    > > I believe Shogun is an Australian brand, but their website gives very
    > > little information and doesn't even have the current models.
    > > From what I understand, most, if not all bikes in this price range are
    > > made in China or Taiwan anyway.
    > > So, a few questions:
    > > Are Shogun a good brand?
    > > What is the quality of the frame, wheels and build compared to Trek?
    > > Am I paying for brandname and sponsorship with Trek (as suggested by
    > > Shogun dealer)?
    > > What are the arguments for and against front suspension/ fixed forks?
    > > Apparently the 2004 Shogun will have front suspension and will be a
    > > little more expensive, so I need to decide how important this is. The
    > > 2004 Trek will apparently be an upgrade over the 2003 model and will

    be
    > > a little cheaper (according to Trek dealer).
    > > Am I better to get the Shogun and spend the difference on accessories,
    > > or is the Trek so much better frame, wheel and build quality (and with
    > > suspension) that it's worth the extra?
    > > I'm hoping to purchase in the next couple of weeks.
    > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

    >
    > There are a few factors to consider here:
    >
    > Trek are famous for their research and devlopment on frames. However,
    > although some of this may be used in low cost entry level frames, the
    > goods usually go for high-end frames. One evidence is that the budget
    > frames used in lower grade Trek bikes are made in Taiwan whereas the
    > decent ones are still built in the USA. So, I would suspect any major
    > gains that you would get if you went with Trek in that sort of price
    > range (in terms of frame).
    >
    > The problem with Trek is that you are asked to pay the premium for the
    > brand name. Shogun should be OK. I was under impression that it was
    > originally a Japanese brand. Could be wrong though.
    >
    > As some else commented, bikes are built to price, and you get what you
    > pay for. This is of course after corrections for brand-name premiums. So
    > in summary, you may spend less on a cheaper bike at the beginning, but
    > in the long run, end up spending a lot more on the maintenance. Remember
    > that bike bits are a lot cheaper when they are included in a bike. As a
    > spare part, you will have to pay a lot more.
    >
    > The other main factor is the geometry of bikes, and finding the one that
    > suits your physics. So you need to be level-headed and flexible when it
    > comes to choosing a new bike.
    >
    > Of course, all these are relevant only if you ride a considerable
    > amount. Otherwise, any bike would do the job.
    >
    > In the end, I'd like to recommend a different type of bike to consider.
    > It's a new line of bikes that are emerging lately. These bikes are based
    > on road bike frames and components but have flat handle bar. The sitting
    > position is more aggressive than a hybrid, so you need to check that
    > out. These bikes are lighter and more compact than hybrids. Take a look
    > at Avanti Blade series. The Comp model has a really generous list of
    > relatively good quality components and sells for around $1300. I know
    > this is above the limit you mentioned, but in the long run, it will save
    > you money, and in the interim, will give you a better quality and
    > reliable riding which can be priceless.
    >
    > Good Luck!
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
    >
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  4. luke hudson

    luke hudson Guest

    I just have to say your man is right, i just had my m700 with slicks etc
    stolen, and there is no real replacement. It could do everything, tour,
    commute, train, ridiculously comfortable, light and virtually
    indestructible. The bad boy i feel is not a great substitute the riding
    position is far too upright, and it doesnt have the gear range to tour.
    Why have cannondale stopped the m series?

    heart broken of london,missing his cannondale



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  5. Cigs

    Cigs Guest

    I just bought the same bike about 1000 K's ago, BBB.

    Very happy with the purchase, and the only thing I have done is change
    the sadle :)



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  6. trembler50

    trembler50 Guest

    Luke,

    Commiserations.

    Maybe we should start a lobby group to Cannondale to design the complete
    all rounder as per our M series.

    St John Street cycles have tried with a road bike with 26" wheels, but I
    still think a good, light MTB frame is better all round.

    Perhaps a custom high end 853 steel frame from Chas Roberts or similar
    would be a good starting point.

    A modern version would have to have discs as well.

    I am now going very retro with one of my bikes.

    Old (1990) Diamondback Axis steel frame (American Tru Temper double
    butted OX II) single speed conversion, Mavix crossride wheels, LX brakes
    and crank, looks good!!


    Trembler50



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  7. luke hudson

    luke hudson Guest

    Trembler, i have also gone a little retro, with a steel framed Orange
    O2, pretty liught and looks good Deore XT etc, although not as versatile
    as m700 - so i bought myself a Scott APD road bike just to be on the
    safe side.

    Always wondered what is the point of disc brakes, my ability to stop
    appears to be controlled by friction with road, and limiting laws of
    physics, not shortage of braking power?



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  8. trembler50

    trembler50 Guest

    Luke,

    Disc brakes, like many things on bikes, are there to make the bike look
    better, their functionality, enhancing or otherwise, is purely
    coincidental.

    The Orange sounds good.

    I have also recently augmented my Cannondale fleet, I have a F1000,
    which is great and my first suspension bike. Also have a Cannondale
    triathlon bike (650c wheels) which is surprisingly comfortable.

    Neither is as good an all rounder as the M700, which I still turn to
    more often than the others for its "rightness".

    The F1000 is not bad because you can lock the fork out. I think the
    nearest to our old M series now would be a Cannondale hardtail with
    lefty fork.

    The road bike was secondhand and the MTB a build up from the frame, in
    case you were mistakingly thinking I was wealthy!



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