Originally Posted by dhk2 .
Klabs, consider that many factory front wheels are now built with radial spoking. My previous Velomax (now Easton) Circuits have radial spokes front, plus radial on the NDS rear. The wheels were the most durable I've ever had, holding up for 30K miles without any truing needed until the rear rim finally cracked (front wheel is still fine). The spoke tension wasn't anywhere near equal from DS to NDS on the rear, yet the wheels never lost true under my 180-200 lbs.
Replaced them with a DT1450 wheelset, which uses 28 Aerolite spokes, front and rear. Again, the spoking is radial in front, with 2x on both sides in the back. If there were any real disadvantages to radial spoking in front, I doubt DT Swiss would use it. After all, they build the spokes, hubs and rims themselves so have the full range of design options available.
FWIW. I believe that I have mentioned this before ... if not, here goes ([COLOR= #808080]¿
again?[/COLOR][COLOR= #808080]
![/COLOR][COLOR= #808080]?[/COLOR]) ... it was MY analysis ([COLOR= #808080]after analyzing my MAVIC Ksyrium SSC SL wheelset[/COLOR]) that one reason that radially spoking is viable with manufactured wheels is because the spoke
more-often-than-not does NOT have a [COLOR= #0000ff]
J-bend[/COLOR] and is securely anchored to the hub flange ...
- that is, interlacing the spokes provides stability to the spokes ([COLOR= #808080]i.e., "one hand washes the other"[/COLOR]) ... if I were more clever ([COLOR= #808080]or, working on a Master' degree in engineering & writing my thesis on bicycle wheels ...[/COLOR]), I could provide an estimate of the amount of stability which is added by interlacing ... and/or tying-and-soldering the spokes
[*] non-interlaced ([COLOR= #808080]
i.e.,
radially laced[/COLOR]) spoke therefore needs a higher tension to provide the same
lateral stability ([COLOR= #ffa500]something which some people apparently do not feel is important[/COLOR]) to a wheel when it is laced with a J-bend spoke
[*] but, anchoring the spoke to the hub should allow the wheelbuilder to create a laterally stable wheel that is not spoked at as high a tension as one built with J-bend spokes
without interlacing the spokes ...
- which is apparently the case
- hence, the ride is not as harsh as on radially laced manufactured wheels are not as harsh as those built with a traditional hub + J-bend spokes
BTW, the (
[COLOR= #ff0000]current[/COLOR])
DT SWISS 1450 Road wheelset has 'symmetrical' crows foot lacing ([COLOR= #808080]vs. the
radial lacing which you indicated -- your wheelset may indeed have radial lacing, of course[/COLOR]) ... the anchored spokes receive the same benefit which wheels laced radially compared with lacing a
traditional hub with J-bend spokes.
BTW. I am under the impression that ([COLOR= #808080]at least[/COLOR]) one of DT's
earliest ready-to-ride wheelsets did use radially laced spokes on one of their standard hubs + J-bend spokes ... more spokes. If so, it was a design which was quickly abandoned.
Regardless, it should be noted that the MTB version of the DT 1450 has a
traditional hub which is laced with interlaced J-bend spokes -- one can surmise that the DT Swiss engineers feel that the side load the expectations are different ([COLOR= #808080]
i.e., presumably, greater ... greater than a Road wheel typically experiences ...
n'èst-çe pas?[/COLOR]).
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dhk2 .
Concerning the ride quality, if you read the report on the link CB ([COLOR= #ffa500]¿did you mean
alienator?[/COLOR]) posted a while back, it dismissed the notion that ride quality varies to any noticeable degree between wheels. [COLOR= #ff0000]This is because all spoked wheels are actually quite
stiff to radial loads (frontal stiffness in their words), meaning they don't flex much at all in response to bumps. [/COLOR]
[COLOR= #ff0000]Spokes just don't stretch much under load[/COLOR][COLOR= #ff0000]. [/COLOR]
[COLOR= #ff0000] [/COLOR]
Klabs, my guess is that your wheelbuilder is over 50 years old. I say that because he quoting all the stuff we "knew" back in the 70's about radial spoking and T&S. I ride with at least one guy who still believes this stuff. Consider that in the 21st century, many factory-built front wheels are radial-spoked, and none that I've seen are T&S'd. Doubt this is because well-kept secrets were lost.
As far as wheels [COLOR= #ff0000]being stiff to radial loads [/COLOR]... that is not a correct statement UNLESS the wheel is built with Carbon Fiber rims ([COLOR= #808080]as indirectly illustrated[/COLOR]) ...
Regardless, if YOU are correct that "
[COLOR= #ff0000]Spokes just don't stretch much under load[/COLOR]" then isn't it silly to lace a wheel with double-butted spokes UNLESS a person wants a wheel that is laterally less stable?
For whatever reason, the more crossings before the spokes are interlaced on a "box" cross-section aluminum rim, the greater the vertical yield ([COLOR= #808080]for want of a better word[/COLOR]) which the wheel will have ...
- that is, IMO, there is a theoretical advantage to a x4 laced wheel that has been lost to the average rider's consciousness even before introducing Carbon Fiber rims into the 'equation'
