Advice re wheels please

[davereo]

Originally Posted by KLabs .

Hi All, I am not completely happy with the 12-36T sram cassette (too mechanical/clunky for me), so I think that I might try an 11-36T shimano cassette. When I get one, and try it, I will let you know what I think of the results

Are you using a Sram or Shimano chain? I find the Sram chains to be quite compared to Shimano's when shifting onto larger cogs.

 

[Eichers]

Are you using a Sram or Shimano chain?  I find the Sram chains to be quite compared to Shimano's when shifting onto larger cogs. 

Hi davereo, I am using a Shimano 6700 chain. Its funny, sometimes all the changes are great then occasionally (and inconsistently) the changes are suddenly extremely mechanical/clunky, then after a little riding great again. I am a little perplexed by the sudden changes ...

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by Desertrider 119 .
A quick up date on my earlier question about using a Sram 11-32 with a Dura Ace 7900 and a compact 50-34 crank. Although I was told it wouldn't work with a Dura Ace 7900 SS, I went ahead and bought the cassette and, to make a long story short, after about 50 miles on the road it works great. It will even shift from the large chain ring to the 32 rear cog. The chain is tight in that configuration so I don't do it on the road.
It sure is nice at 64 to have a bail out gear on long climbs.

Originally Posted by KLabs .
Hi Desertrider 119, excellent ... the specs say 33T max total and you have got it handling 37T total which is the GS cage spec (and it works like a dream)

I would be careful with the 50 to 32 as that will place a lot of strain on the derailleur hanger and could bend it or even break it.

Enjoy the lower gearing


Hi All, fyi, as the above suggests, it would appear that the DA 7900 SS RD's largest sprocket can be stretched from 28T to 32T and its Total Capacity of 33T can be stretched to 37T without any noticeable issues

That's great because a 32T sprocket to a 34T chain ring is eqivalent to a 36T/39T arrangement ... that's excellent


Post thought ... if a DA 7900 SS RDs Total Capacity of 33T can be stretched to 37T without any noticeable issues, then I wonder if a DA 7800 GS RDs Total Capacity of 37T can be stretched to 39T or even 41T? Although, I still have the Derailleur Hanger B screw platform issue, but it's nice to have a think about it

Required Capacity
53/39 = 14T, 11/34 = 23T, Cap = 37T ... DA 7800 GS RDs Total Capacity of 37T can do this
53/39 = 14T, 11/36 = 25T, Cap = 39T ... DA 7800 GS RDs Total Capacity of 37T may do this

Nice to have options ...

 

[cloudhead]

After blowing my knee out, my wrench installed an 11-32 XT 10sp cluster & derailleur along with a triple crank for the front. Too many steep hills and mountains around here, and hills and mountains are what I love. As my knee gets better, well, I'm keeping it. It makes so much more sense for the terrain around here.

The look of it kind of freaked me out at first, but after riding it, it made me wonder why more people around here aren't doing the same.

Just my $0.02





-Court

 

[Eichers]

HI cloudhead, yes, I also love the hills and mountains but getting a little old to still enjoy them with standard gearing.
I have kept my standard DA crankset, because it is new and the Q of a triple crank is just a little wide for me (although I could easily adapt if I had too).
I am finding the 36T sprocket to 39T chainwheel sufficient for any hills and mountains, and loving it
Suffice to say though, using a Compact crankset with an 11-32T cassette is essentially the same as my alternative. Also the combination of a Compact crankset and 11-32T cassette is lighter, stiffer, smoother, and easier to accomplish, but this thread is about an alternative to a Compact Crank

I think if I could have any arrangement I wanted, I would have an ...

• 11-40T cassette with a single crankset and a 48T or 50T chainwheel or
• 11-38T cassette with a single crankset and a 42T chainwheel or
• 10-36T cassette with a single crankset and a 39T chainwheel
• I would use a single chainset so that I could have a better Q on the cranksets drive side.

Of course this is just a dream ...


cloudhead, if you don't mind my asking is that a 9 spd or 10 spd XT Rear Derailleur?

Are you using Road Bars and STI levers with this arrangement?

What chainrings are in your triple crank?


Most of all, enjoy the low gearing and the hill climbing

 

[cloudhead]

Hi K,

That's a 10 spd derailleur & cluster, rolling on a White Industries H3 hub, controlled by Shimano 105 STI's on road bars. The front power is a Shimano 105 triple and Ultegra triple derailleur. I chose 105 both as I was uncertain about this setup so I wanted to keep it lower priced, as well as I happen to like the aesthetics of 105 the most from Shimano. I may or may not upgrade, if I notice any performance difference I might get. So far it's been really nice for all-day rides in the mountain canopies.

-Court

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by cloudhead .

Hi K,

That's a 10 spd derailleur & cluster, rolling on a White Industries H3 hub, controlled by Shimano 105 STI's on road bars. The front power is a Shimano 105 triple and Ultegra triple derailleur. I chose 105 both as I was uncertain about this setup so I wanted to keep it lower priced, as well as I happen to like the aesthetics of 105 the most from Shimano. I may or may not upgrade, if I notice any performance difference I might get. So far it's been really nice for all-day rides in the mountain canopies.

-Court

Hi Court, that's excellent

What is the 10spd derailleur model that you used and how good would you describe the gear changing ... thanks

 

[alfeng]

Originally Posted by KLabs .

Post thought ... if a DA 7900 SS RDs Total Capacity of 33T can be stretched to 37T without any noticeable issues, then I wonder if a DA 7800 GS RDs Total Capacity of 37T can be stretched to 39T or even 41T? Although, I still have the Derailleur Hanger B screw platform issue, but it's nice to have a think about it

Required Capacity
53/39 = 14T, 11/34 = 23T, Cap = 37T ... DA 7800 GS RDs Total Capacity of 37T can do this
53/39 = 14T, 11/36 = 25T, Cap = 39T ... DA 7800 GS RDs Total Capacity of 37T may do this

FWIW. You may-or-may-not find this interesting -- I transplanted the SGS cage from an XT 750 rear derailleur onto an Ultegra 6600 rear derailleur ([COLOR= #808080]what is true for the particular 10-speed Ultegra rear derailleur should be true for the 10-speed DA rear derailleurs[/COLOR]):

​

A 34t cog is the largest known ([COLOR= #808080]to me[/COLOR]) cog size with a 10t upper pulley wheel BUT if you/([COLOR= #808080]anyone[/COLOR]) are managing a 34t cog with an 11t upper pulley wheel on a Shimano Road rear derailleur, then a 10t pulley wheel should certainly make a 36t cog viable.

Of course, a 13t lower pulley wheel will further increase the chain capacity.

 

[Eichers]

Hi alfeng, quite interesting, nice

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by cloudhead .

Hi K,

That's a 10 spd derailleur & cluster, rolling on a White Industries H3 hub, controlled by Shimano 105 STI's on road bars. The front power is a Shimano 105 triple and Ultegra triple derailleur. I chose 105 both as I was uncertain about this setup so I wanted to keep it lower priced, as well as I happen to like the aesthetics of 105 the most from Shimano. I may or may not upgrade, if I notice any performance difference I might get. So far it's been really nice for all-day rides in the mountain canopies.

-Court

Hi cloudhead, that's excellent

What is the 10spd derailleur model that you used and how good would you describe the gear changing ... thanks

 

[Eichers]

Hi cloudhead, I have had a close look at the picture that you posted and the RD looks like the 9spd M772 SGS not the 10spd M773 SGS. Can you please clarify this for me

 

[Eichers]

Originally Posted by cloudhead .


Hi, spoke to my mechanic who set it all up, and you're correct, it's a 9-speed Deore XT shadow with a 10sp Dynasys cartridge. He said the reason for this is that the 10sp Dynasys derailleurs aren't compatible with the STI shifters.

Hi cloudhead, thanks for the confirmation that you are using a 9spd M772 XT RD and XT 10 spd cassette
This is still good news in that it means that an XT or XTR 9spd RD and an STI road lever will work with with a Shimano or SRAM 10spd cassette


This still raises a question about the M773's compatibility, because it is nolonger compatible with the current STI road levers.
If the M773 is not compatiable with Shimano STI road levers, could it now be compatible with SRAMs road levers (ie. 1:1 actuation)

 

[swampy1970]

Originally Posted by KLabs .



Quote: Originally Posted by davereo
Are you using a Sram or Shimano chain? I find the Sram chains to be quite compared to Shimano's when shifting onto larger cogs.

Hi davereo, I am using a Shimano 6700 chain. Its funny, sometimes all the changes are great then occasionally (and inconsistently) the changes are suddenly extremely mechanical/clunky, then after a little riding great again. I am a little perplexed by the sudden changes ...


I never figured out why but the Dura Ace 7900 chain shifted way worse with a wide spaced cassette (IRD 10speed 11-32) than the 7800. Maybe switching to the prior generation Ultegra chain will net the same results for you.

 

[Eichers]

Hi swampy1970, thanks again for that information. I have a KMC X10 SL Gold 10 Speed Chain to try, as recommended by some person who wanted to sell his new frames ... hehehe. If that doesn't work then I will definitely try your recommendation ... ie. 6600 or 7800 chain. Thanks

PS: I have also considered simply trying an XT (I have an 11-34T) or XTR 10 spd cassette

 

[digifant]

Hello All,
I just wanted to give you an update.
After 40km on the new setup, the ultegra 6701 chain snapped.
I was on a flat road, I heard CLICK! like if the chain jumped a tooth.
I did not have time to spin the crank much after that, the chain was broken. (not at the link pin, but on a "factory installed pin")
I might be strong, but not enough to torque like that!
I took the chain to the shop, I learned that no chain had a warranty.
The technician blamed Shimano's quality control gave me a new pin.
I know, a chain breaks at its weakest point, but still, I ordered a new one, wippermann this time.

 

[Eichers]

Hi digifant, other than the chain who is everything running

Actually, I must be lucky because I haven't had any issues with my 6700 chain ... actually I brought the 6700 chain before they released the 6701 chain. I wonder if they are different?

Good to hear from you

 

[treefrog911]

Ok... I'm pulling my hair out! I'm trying to get a 36T rear cassette on my road bike, fitting a 9 speed MTB derailleur. Everyone else seems to have this working but I just can't!

Can anyone identify the problem with my setup?

I've tried two different derailleurs and two different cassettes. These are the components:

Regular road levers - Dura Ace 10 speed

Shimano XT Cassette 10 Speed M771 - 11 - 36
SRAM PG1070 Cassette 10sp - 12 - 36

Shimano XT M771 Rear Derailleur, Long cage
Shimano XTR M971 9 Speed Rear Derailleur, Long cage.

In all cases I just can't get it to index properly, experiencing the following kind of thing:

1. The chain is sitting on the largest cog (lowest gear). It won't shift down with one click of the shifter. So I reduce the tension in the cable.
2. Then it works in terms of shifting down from the large cog.
3. However, further down the cassette it will drop 2 gears at once.
4. So I increase the tension to eliminate this
5. With the increased tension, it won't shift off the largest cog... i.e. go back to step 1!

Other info -

Have installed brand-new Dura-Ace gear cable
Have taken my frame to a bike engineer to check derailleur hanger isn't bent
Brand new 105 10-speed (HG) chain
The Dura-Ace shifter is ok I think, as it worked fine with the Dura-Ace road derailleur and road cassette (14-25) that was fitted previously.

Please help if you can!

Dave

 

[treefrog911]

PS - Should have said that I'm using a Shimano compact chainset on the front (34 / 50).

 

[Eichers]

Hi treefrog911, I have done this using a M772 RD with a DA7800 STI lever and SRAM PG1070 Cassette 10sp - 12 - 36, and it does work OK, but not perfectly. Also, I have replaced the 11T pulley wheels with 10T pulley wheels (Not essentail but appears to help).

It would appear that the RD needs to be a shadow type like the M772 or M972. The actuation of the M771/971 and M772/972 appear to be different. Although having said that I know of another person who has used the M770 RD very successfully with a Shimano 11-34T 10spd cassette.

Considering that you have a compact crank you really only need an 11-32T or 11-34T cassette which the M772/972 RDs are designed to work with.

I really cannot comment until I have seen how you have mounted the RD but perhaps you have mounted the guide pulley wheel to far away from the large sprocket. The distance should only be 4 or 5mm (about 3/16") between the teeth of the large sprocket and the teeth of the Guide Pulley wheel. The closer this distance, without the chain jamming, the better. Note that the distance between the sprocket and Guide Pulley wheel increases as the chain moves to the smaller sprockets.

I hope what I have said above is helpful

 

[treefrog911]

Thanks for the reply... it's extremely helpful and I'm very grateful for the assistance.

This evening I tried the 34T version of my 36T Shimano cassette but with the same result... basically appears to be a general reluctance of the derailleur to index correctly with the 10 speed cassette. This is with both the XT and XTR derailleurs. I'm tempted to try the shadow, but a bit concerned that I might be throwing good money after bad. I suppose there's always the possibility that the shifters are worm out but they did seem fine with my old road derailleur and cassette.

A couple of questions if I may...

1. What 10T pulley wheel have you found to be compatible with these Shimano cassettes. I went into a bike shop today but couldn't find anything compatible (wheels I looked at were too narrow to 'fill' the width of the cage).

2. When measuring the distance between the guide pulley wheel and the large sprocket, do you mean with the chain on the bike or without? With the chain on, the tension moves the derailleur forward / backward (depending on which front ring is engaged) and this varies the distance. Without the chain, the pulley wheel actually fouls on the large sprocket when it's over as far as it will go towards the wheel (i.e. lowest gear).

3. Is there any way to adjust the position of these wheels. You seem to imply that there is, but basically the position seems fixed by the design of the derailleur... is it just adjustment of the B screw and size of the pulley wheel?

Thanks in advance!

Dave